Train model Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Does anyone know what chassis I can use for c. Rails 20ft bell wagons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 dave182 Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 Hi Train Model! I'm always surprised how often this question comes up, and also the fact that, in my opinion anyways, there is no obvious answer! Options appear to be: 1. Irish Freight Models RTR 20' and 22' chassis. http://www.irishfreightmodels.com/index.php/shop.html#!/~/product/category=3461290&id=15166615 They look like a superb model, but at €30 each, I certainly could not justify a rake, a set of 10 will set you back €300 before you even think of putting a container on! 2. In the past members on here appear to be using Dapol's Prestwin Silo kit. The frame appears to be around the 20' length, and doesn't look out of place on an Irish layout. Currently showing £5.40 on Hattons, so I guess a rake of 10 will cost around €100, allowing for cement, paint, kits, glue etc. Here is a post from the old site: http://irishrailwaymodeller.yuku.com/reply/11297/20-Container-Flats#reply-11297 3. Other options are to use RTR hornby wagons which come in at a scale length of 25'-26' as far as I can see. Hornby #R6372 is €4 on Hattons, and I've used some of these in the past as I simply hadn't got the funds for anything else. Rake of 10 works out at about €60- wagons, paint and p&p. 4. Brass kits. I think some of the member are developing, or may already have produced, a brass kit version. Maybe some one could clarify? When I put my business hat on, I'm surprised that no one has come up with a 'simplified' version, that would represent a 22' Irish wagon for those of us on a budget, or who might enjoy an RTR model thats balances detail with price. A €10 to €12 price point would slot in with the Hornby Railroad Range/Bachmann Branchline Range, and would sell in the hundreds. Would also encourage younger modellers into the hobby and allow them build up a selection of stock without breaking the bank. Anyways, that's my own personal opinion. Anyone who's looked at this before- would love to hear your opinions or experiences. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 patrick Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 Hi Train Model! When I put my business hat on, I'm surprised that no one has come up with a 'simplified' version, that would represent a 22' Irish wagon for those of us on a budget, or who might enjoy an RTR model thats balances detail with price. I would love to see an economical 'simplifed' 20 foot underframe available. It would be a great starting point for scratch building so many Irish wagons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Train model Posted March 3, 2013 Author Share Posted March 3, 2013 Thanks guys I got 10 bell containers I think they cost €100 including post worth every cent as they are perfect.My mate got 10 roco 3 wagon bell on a 60 ft I think in ho scale and behind a 201 look out of place I think they worked out at around €680 including post I can't seem to find a wagon at the moment I taught someone might have the same problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Mayner Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Short of putting up €50-100k and trying to corner the market by commissioning a run of wagons from China it would be difficult to do a rtr Irish wagon in the €10-12 price range. The Dapol Prestwin or the long wheelbase Dapol coal/tank wagon chassis is probably the best option for OO. The early steel floored flats used for B&I & Bell Container Traffic that ended up under the bagged cement and beet doubles would probably be the simplest to produce probably combining brass and whitemetal. I have done some work on a brass version of the 22' wagon suitable for 21mm gauge, this wagon is duplicated with the Irish Freight Models flat, but the model is aimed mainly at 21mm and S4 modellers. The main problem with skeletal 4 wheelers is the risk of de-railing due to the lack of weight. I looked at forming the skeletal framing in whitemetal to speed assembly and add weight, but ruins the look of the model. I have sinced revised the drawings to incorporate a Bill Bedford style Universal Suspension System and I am planning to do a build basically to see if the idea will work with a light weight wagon. The Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guest hidden-agenda Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) Try buying some of these http://www.ontracks.co.uk/index.php?page=product&prodID=79628&catID=1312 and cut them down using a mitre block and saw for 40' or 45' wagons. These http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=177_60_85_158&product_id=75 are what are being used under wagons which you can cut the centre out with a dremil and replace with some evergreen strip to create a girder look. The dapol co43 http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=177_62_155&product_id=576 is another chassis you can build and extend the ends and also cut out the centre and replace with evergreen strip for the 20 foot skeletal wagon. John,s excellent 20' chassis will probably be the most realistic to the prototype when it comes out. Alternatively you can wait for the SSM fold up brass kit for the 40 foot wagon ( judging by the brake-van kit it should be good) or the advertisement that this thread is may-be leading up to. Edited March 3, 2013 by hidden-agenda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Irish Freight Models Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Hi Train Model, We recently announce our intention to roll out multipacks across irishfreightmodels.com, bringing down the cost of models significantly, the 20' skeletal, (which is a perfect match for a 20' bell container) is one of those models we would hope to be included in these offers. So please keep an eye on the site for that, or better still sign up to the newsletter and we will drop the info direct into your inbox regularly ! Our purchase power is increasing allowing us to pass on the savings to irish modellers, and as is very much our policy, bring irish modelling to a wider audience than before. I should also point out that this item is available in kit form also here In the meantime fell free to contact us at irishfreightmodels.com to discuss your needs I'm always surprised how often this question comes up, and also the fact that, in my opinion anyways, there is no obvious answer! Options appear to be: 1. Irish Freight Models RTR 20' and 22' chassis. http://www.irishfreightmodels.com/index.php/shop.html#!/~/product/category=3461290&id=15166615 They look like a superb model, but at €30 each, I certainly could not justify a rake, a set of 10 will set you back €300 before you even think of putting a container on! 2. In the past members on here appear to be using Dapol's Prestwin Silo kit. The frame appears to be around the 20' length, and doesn't look out of place on an Irish layout. Currently showing £5.40 on Hattons, so I guess a rake of 10 will cost around €100, allowing for cement, paint, kits, glue etc. Here is a post from the old site: http://irishrailwaymodeller.yuku.com/reply/11297/20-Container-Flats#reply-11297 3. Other options are to use RTR hornby wagons which come in at a scale length of 25'-26' as far as I can see. Hornby #R6372 is €4 on Hattons, and I've used some of these in the past as I simply hadn't got the funds for anything else. Rake of 10 works out at about €60- wagons, paint and p&p. 4. Brass kits. I think some of the member are developing, or may already have produced, a brass kit version. Maybe some one could clarify? When I put my business hat on, I'm surprised that no one has come up with a 'simplified' version, that would represent a 22' Irish wagon for those of us on a budget, or who might enjoy an RTR model thats balances detail with price. A €10 to €12 price point would slot in with the Hornby Railroad Range/Bachmann Branchline Range, and would sell in the hundreds. Would also encourage younger modellers into the hobby and allow them build up a selection of stock without breaking the bank. Anyways, that's my own personal opinion. Anyone who's looked at this before- would love to hear your opinions or experiences. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 dave182 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Re: Irish Freight models post above, That is great news on the multi-pack front. I also wasn't aware that you had the 20's available in kit form. I cannot stress enough the importance of a forum like this for discussion and constructive criticism, and don't forget praise too! It is great to see people like Tom from IFM coming on here and giving some input, and taking on board what is going on. I admire your attitude, and you have brought a great suite of models to the market in the past couple of years. The more attractive the market is (Irish Railway modelling) then the more people take an interest and costs can start to come down for all of us. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Irish Freight Models Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Hi Dave, many thanks for your comments and appreciation of what IFM are achieving. Regards Tom Re: Irish Freight models post above, That is great news on the multi-pack front. I also wasn't aware that you had the 20's available in kit form. I cannot stress enough the importance of a forum like this for discussion and constructive criticism, and don't forget praise too! It is great to see people like Tom from IFM coming on here and giving some input, and taking on board what is going on. I admire your attitude, and you have brought a great suite of models to the market in the past couple of years. The more attractive the market is (Irish Railway modelling) then the more people take an interest and costs can start to come down for all of us. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Arran Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 HI All Interesting discussion going one here, i dont think it would cost anything near that to tool and manufacturer some wagon chassis for containers or as a rtr chassis for kits to go on, there would have to be a cast part to the chassis for weight and an NEM pockets incorpareted. Regards Arran PS the Bell 40ft containers have left the factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Warbonnet Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 HI All Interesting discussion going one here, i dont think it would cost anything near that to tool and manufacturer some wagon chassis for containers or as a rtr chassis for kits to go on, there would have to be a cast part to the chassis for weight and an NEM pockets incorpareted. Regards Arran PS the Bell 40ft containers have left the factory. A project for real track models so? Go on, you know you want to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Arran Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Get 4000 orders then!!!! Regards Arran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 BosKonay Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 4000 units?..... hmm What kind of prices Sweet news on the Bell 40's Been waiting for these :):) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Warbonnet Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Get 4000 orders then!!!! Regards Arran What would my commission be if I did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Arran Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 HI ALL What price well id say the early teens and whats your commission "satisfaction":-bd Regards Arran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 BosKonay Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Well, if you made a 20' flat, I'd certainly put my name down for 40-50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Warbonnet Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 HI ALL What price well id say the early teens and whats your commission "satisfaction":-bd Regards Arran Early teens is very cheap, considering that a pair of bachmann autoballasters in Irish livery is 110 euro. Could that bring the economies of scale better in line? I'm not so cheap though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Arran Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I talking of top of my head on this but i dont think id be far of the mark, the price come down to how many you right the tooling of over really. I must be worth some one doing them, if they can go under more wagons. But im no expert on Irish freight stock, but if Murphy can make locos and coaches pay then there has to be a market for wagons. Regards Arran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ttc0169 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I bought some of your containers and tanks including the 20' BELL containers while attending the recent Glasgow exhibition and I'm impressed with the quality of detail and work, I'm looking forward to getting the 40' BELL containers plus others in the future...well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 dave182 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Hi Aaron. I'm sure a seed has been planted in your head by now and I would say this- Modelling the Irish scene has really taken off since Murphy models launched their RTR locos. Obviously, this site is driven by more experienced and skilled modellers, but we can forget sometimes that there is a much wider audience out there, all the parents and children that turn up at the model railway exhibitions etc. in my head, the absence of a cheap 'starter' 20ft flat, or '20ft + Container' is like not having 12' Vans and Plank wagons that are such a part of the UK scene, and where most of us started out. On top of that, most Irish modellers, like CIE/Irish rail, are on a budget and will take a 20' frame and make their own wagon bodies to go on top. An RTR version woulf replace the dapple kit. I think a run of 5000 would easily sell out, I count 60 single wagons in my collection alone, and would easily add more if the price was right. As I pointed out before, €12 to €15 should be the target in my mind. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Glenderg Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Well said Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 RedRich Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Well, if you made a 20' flat, I'd certainly put my name down for 40-50 Leave a few for the rest of us. Stephen I think that this is something that you looked into before yourself. If it is a twenty foot it would open up some options for people that would want to scratch build bodies fro Beet, Ballast, etc. Rich, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 RedRich Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Early teens is very cheap, considering that a pair of bachmann autoballasters in Irish livery is 110 euro. Could that bring the economies of scale better in line? I'm not so cheap though But you're worth it Fran. Rich, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 RedRich Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Well said Dave. +1 Richie, I think getting the correct springs, w irons, J hangers, axle boxes, brake gear would really make it stand out. I hadn't seen Dave's post regarding scratch building varying types of bodies on a chassis before I posted one of my earlier replies and he is spot on. I've said it before that we seriously need some quality wagons to run with the marvelous locos that have been produced in recent times. Freight holds a huge interest for me and I think with the exception of a 121 I would be happier to see some wagons. The lads at Real Track have produced some exceptional models to date and C-rail have been at the fore front of producing some great containers and tank tainers. Rich, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Garfield Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Re. a 20' flat model... isn't Mayner working on producing one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 RedRich Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Re. a 20' flat model... isn't Mayner working on producing one? I think John's is a 22 ft wagon Pat. Rich, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Mayner Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I think John's is a 22 ft wagon Pat. Rich, Yes its a 22' wagon at this stage I am finalising the drawings for the etcher and working on patterns for the castings, if there is sufficient interest (30 or more) I will do the 20' steel floored wagon these were used for containers and ended up under the beet doubles and bagged cement, so there is scope for scratchbuilt or resin bodies. A wagon with a floor would be a lot simpler to build and have some space for weight compared with a skeletal. If people want rtr wagons I think its a case of approaching Paddy Murphy, Seamus or Herbie to commission a model from China, in which case a 42'9" bogie flat or a cement wagon would be the best option. Personally my biggest gripe is that there is little available suitable for conversion to 21mm gauge, IFM and Provincial wagons have been great in getting out an extensive range of wagons, there have been compromises with chassis, but thats mainly been about producing a realistically priced OO model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Arran Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 HI All OK then, right Ive asked the question from two of the factories i use to see what the cost of this might be. i said there also has to be a large die-cast element to this as the chassis runs on its own and NEM pockets. Regards Arran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Warbonnet Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 HI All OK then, right Ive asked the question from two of the factories i use to see what the cost of this might be. i said there also has to be a large die-cast element to this as the chassis runs on its own and NEM pockets. Regards Arran Any word back Arran? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Arran Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Yes!!!! I have a price on it all. it could be done for the prices banded about but we need to sell at least 2500 to make it work. Regards Arran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 RedRich Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 That sounds great Arran keep us posted. Rich, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 BosKonay Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 More details please!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Arran Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 2500 pre-orders required basically. Regards Arran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 BosKonay Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Well put me down for 40 so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Glenderg Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 If the cost of them was sensible, and I'm thinking I could put wheel trains, ballast/gypsum bodies, cement bubbles, shallow spoils, bullied opens (etc, etc...) on, I'd take 100, possibly 200. Any idea what cost would be on them, assuming they'd come unfinished Arran? Richie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Arran Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 HI Getting undecorated is an easy order, and you will save a few pounds come Euros. I think some how we need to organize a book or list to get orders put in but seriously if you want this to happen and its up to every one to push there mates to sighn up as well. Regards Arran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Does anyone know what chassis I can use for c. Rails 20ft bell wagons
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