How often do Loco's take on fuel?

[dave182]

Can anyone tell me what kind of mileage do you get on a full tank of diesel with say a GM 071 class loco? Just wondering how often they have to return to depot for fuel? Are there still re-fueling options in places like Rosslare, Tralee, Westport for example?

[BosKonay]

Well the 071's have 126.8 litre engines (this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_645) that produce 2,250 horsepower.

 

The Fuel Tanks are 3,600 L on each Loco.

 

As a rule of thumb, a large diesel will burn 3.5-4l of fuel per 20hp. So 2250hp/20=112.5 x 3.5l = 393.75 litres of fuel per hour at full tilt.

 

However, fuel consumed is proportional to the cube of the engine revs, so if the engine is at 65% power say, then power developed 65% x 65% x65% = 27% max = 607.5hp = 106 litres per hour.

 

On that basis, at an average 65% revs, the tank will last about 33 hours.

[Mayner]

Frequency depends on the size of the fuel tank, operating hours and milage/nature of work.  Inaccurate fueling record/absence of a sight gauge on a 001 Class was one of the contributory factors to the Cherryville Junction collision back in 1980, the loco had worked a freight from Waterford to Mallow before being used to replace a faulty 071 on the Tralee-Heuston. Waterford shed staff forgot to record the fuel used when the loco was idling before working the train to Mallow.

CIE used to re-fuel locos working freights on the main line at Inchacore using a long hose, I remember seeing IE refueling 201s off the mails and passenger trains at Galway loco depot on a Friday evening during the mid 1990s when I should have been out partying!

Its not beyond the bounds of possibility that locos working freights are refueled by road tanker at places like Ballina or Bellview rather than returning the loco to Inchacore for re-fueling

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

Well the 071's have 126.8 litre engines (this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_645) that produce 2,250 horsepower.

 

The Fuel Tanks are 3,600 L on each Loco.

 

As a rule of thumb, a large diesel will burn 3.5-4l of fuel per 20hp. So 2250hp/20=112.5 x 3.5l = 393.75 litres of fuel per hour at full tilt.

 

However, fuel consumed is proportional to the cube of the engine revs, so if the engine is at 65% power say, then power developed 65% x 65% x65% = 27% max = 607.5hp = 106 litres per hour.

 

On that basis, at an average 65% revs, the tank will last about 33 hours.

 

 

 

I feel like I'm back in school after reading that Stephen

[BosKonay]

I feel like I was back in front of my class writing it

 

(my previous life as a school teacher )

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

I would have said the answer to the question was when the red fuel light comes on, on the dash.

 

I bet the school trips were good fun bring a class train spotting.

[BosKonay]

Of course if the engine is idling in a siding, the tank would be enough to keep her ticking over for a month

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

Forgot to say. So that's why you want us all to call you Sir

[David]

The 071s idle at about 600 rpm and full power is about 900 rpm if that helps your calculations Stephen

[BosKonay]

Interesting!! Quite a high idle rate

 

Will run the numbers when I get back to my desk

[Garfield]

Of course if the engine is idling in a siding, the tank would be enough to keep her ticking over for a month

 

Not quite, Bosko... I was told before by a reliable source that the 071s burn approx. 9 litres of fuel per hour at idle, and the Babies burn approx. 6. That would mean a full tank of fuel would allow it to sit idling for 400 hours, or just over 16 days.

 

</pedantic>

[BosKonay]

Yep, based on that idle rate I would have said at least 9-10l per hour! Not very efficient, tho compared to 12-15 trucks on the road....

[Railer]

Relating to the 201 class. I did read before that a 201 in HEP mode on the Enterprise can do a max of 1.5 return trips on a full tank. Shows how hard the engine is working.

[Warbonnet]

Interesting!! Quite a high idle rate

 

Will run the numbers when I get back to my desk

 

Two stroke engines have a higher idle rate compared to four stroke. All Irish (and pretty much all other) EMDs are 2 stroke.

[BosKonay]

Relating to the 201 class. I did read before that a 201 in HEP mode on the Enterprise can do a max of 1.5 return trips on a full tank. Shows how hard the engine is working.

 

Very much so, considering the 4,546 litre fuel tank!

[BosKonay]

At the best price in Ireland for a drop of diesel, 'fill her up' on a 201 would cost you €6,273.48

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

At the best price in Ireland for a drop of diesel, 'fill her up' on a 201 would cost you €6,273.48

 

Would they not be using green diesel which would work out cheaper

[BosKonay]

I'd hope so

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

If fuel prices keep going through the roof you never know you might see electrification of the network

[Train model]

Imagine the club points

[BosKonay]

Would certainly be fun to see electric locos!

[Railer]

Would certainly be fun to see electric locos!

 

Would be good fun loading and unloading the IWT and timber liners under an OHLE the way IE do it now.

 

Would be nice to see something like the UK class 90s, 91s and even the 92s over here.

[MOGUL]

Not quite, Bosko... I was told before by a reliable source that the 071s burn approx. 9 litres of fuel per hour at idle, and the Babies burn approx. 6. That would mean a full tank of fuel would allow it to sit idling for 400 hours, or just over 16 days.

 

</pedantic>

To expand on this the 201s consume 10ltr/hr at idle and 125ltr/hr at notch 8. So you can see how using the EGV produces big savings, by replacing notch 8 with idle..

 

From my own research the actual comparison between road and rail freight for fuel consumption is in the region of a 30% saving, with CO2 being roughly the same, not 70% as IE suggest..

Edited April 23, 2013 by MOGUL

[Guest hidden-agenda]

Would be good fun loading and unloading the IWT and timber liners under an OHLE the way IE do it now.

 

Would be nice to see something like the UK class 90s, 91s and even the 92s over here.

 

In all probability any future loco purchases may not be EMD more likely GE or European ( Voith Maxima would be nice) but with no cash handy and the 071s being overhauled its safe to say no matter how much fuel they burn they will be here a while.

Does any one know when a loco is stabled is it shut down or left idling as in the old days?.

[ttc0169]

Does any one know when a loco is stabled is it shut down or left idling as in the old days?.

 

Gareth,Any locos that arrive off IWT,DFDS or timber trains in either Ballina or Westport are shutdown when the loco runs around its train,

However on a few occasions a loco has been left running overnight if it had a previous history of failing to start the following morning,220,224,075 and 088 all come to mind..

[Guest hidden-agenda]

Does any one know when a loco is stabled is it shut down or left idling as in the old days?.

 

Gareth,Any locos that arrive off IWT,DFDS or timber trains in either Ballina or Westport are shutdown when the loco runs around its train,

However on a few occasions a loco has been left running overnight if it had a previous history of failing to start the following morning,220,224,075 and 088 all come to mind..

Cheers Noel.

God be the days in Mullingar when any and every stabled loco just sat idling and no worries about fuel.

[heirflick]

God be the days in Mullingar when any and every stabled loco just sat idling and no worries about fuel.

 

now those were the days! engines left in ticking over from friday evening to early monday morning. manys the time i sat in one - nearly always an A class or a baby gm.....seems like only yesterday - great memories! always amazed me that the engines were never vandalised, unlike poor old 186, stripped of her brass fittings a few times(the f-ckers!)

 

ps, any 071's stabled in portlaoise are always shut down overnight.

[dave182]

Wow! I'm bamboozled by the detailed answers you all have provided! So it's safe to have my model 071s returning to depot for fuel once a day! On a seperate note then, any recorded incidents of locos running out of fuel while in scheduled service?!

[Glenderg]

So it's safe to have my model 071s returning to depot for fuel once a day!

Bosko reckons there's about 33 hours before a refill. So once every few days, or if it's sitting idle, once a fortnight.

[enniscorthyman]

Wow! I'm bamboozled by the detailed answers you all have provided! So it's safe to have my model 071s returning to depot for fuel once a day! On a seperate note then, any recorded incidents of locos running out of fuel while in scheduled service?!

Oh yes,the collision at Cherryville junction in 1983 was caused

by a A class loco running out of fuel.

[ttc0169]

Oh yes,the collision at Cherryville junction in 1983 was caused

by a A class loco running out of fuel.

 

And after that serious accident CIE tightened up on when and where and how much fuel was put into locomotives,Loco depots or fuelling points around the system had to telephone CTC every day with the loco number and the time and amount of fuel that was put into the locomotive(s) with IE tightening up much more nowadays with only Inchicore,Connolly,Cork and Limerick fuelling locomotives now....

Even the Mk2/Mk3 gen vans and BR/Dutch steam heating vans were also reported and recorded.

[Mayner]

Oh yes,the collision at Cherryville junction in 1983 was caused

by a A class loco running out of fuel.

 

 

 

I have to do a presentation on the Swiss Cheese Model of Accident Causation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Cheese_model and I seriously considered using Cherryville Junction as an example.

 

There are so many variables the 071 on the Tralee-Dublin failing as a result of engine overspeed governor problems, the A class running out of fuel, lineside telephone failures, unreliable train radios, ambigious rules for stop and proceed operation, the use of 2 aspect home and distant signals rather than 3 or 4 aspect colour lights on the CTC section, (this would have given a red rather than a yellow caution aspect as the driver of the up Galway approached the Cherryville Junction up repeater signal), foggy conditions on the bog approaching Cherryville with a single oil lamp as a last line of defence for the up Tralee.

 

It was a bad day for Irish Railways earlier that morning the Sligo-Dublin Line was closed for engineering work at Moyvalley, the locos of the Up Sligo derailed at the Junction of the Sligo and Galway Lines at Mullingar, when the engineers posession was lifted the up Esso Oil train de-railed passing through the worksite.

[Broithe]

I have to do a presentation on the Swiss Cheese Model of Accident Causation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Cheese_model and I seriously considered using Cherryville Junction as an example.

 

The reasons behind the Apollo 13 explosion make interesting reading. The most rational and careful person would hardly have spotted the potential...

[dave182]

Mayner, thanks for sharing that info, before my time. It's an unbelievable sequence of events, and would certainly make for an interesting presentation!

[MOGUL]

And after that serious accident CIE tightened up on when and where and how much fuel was put into locomotives,Loco depots or fuelling points around the system had to telephone CTC every day with the loco number and the time and amount of fuel that was put into the locomotive(s) with IE tightening up much more nowadays with only Inchicore,Connolly,Cork and Limerick fuelling locomotives now....

Even the Mk2/Mk3 gen vans and BR/Dutch steam heating vans were also reported and recorded.

 

Are locos not permitted to be fuelled on the slab at Drogheda?? I know it was proposed to fuel the loco off the late Tara's in Drogheda instead of at Connolly so it wouldn't be running l/e Nw to Con during the time required for track possesions

[ttc0169]

Are locos not permitted to be fuelled on the slab at Drogheda?? I know it was proposed to fuel the loco off the late Tara's in Drogheda instead of at Connolly so it wouldn't be running l/e Nw to Con during the time required for track possesions

 

It's possible that there is an arrangement in place for the locos off the Tara to be fuelled at Drogheda depot in the event of those possessions,

But for the liner/timber movements any loco is fuelled at Inchicore before it works the IWT liner,while a swap is normally done at Kildare with the ex Waterford timber or DFDS loco with the freshly fuelled loco heading West and the other loco going straight to the running shed at Inchicore for a service which includes fuelling.