DiveController Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Mark 2 Gen Van in intercity is nigh on impossible to get, the restaurant car is hard to come by & bachmann's auto ballasters are sold out to name a few Tom. i was referring to doing re-runs of models which have sold out or are running low as has been mentioned all the groundwork has already been done Yup, all very hard to find.... looking forward to MM supertrain coaches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 If models didn't sell out, there would be less incentive to do more runs, ironically, so the selling out of a model is a good thing, not the opposite. While that does sometimes mean the price of second hand can rise over time, particularly in the case of desirable, or rare or limited run models, such is the situation in all fields of collection / modelling / hobbies. Even a 'small' run of 504 locomotives, assuming all the tooling costs have already be absorbed (am sure some have not yet been) will cost north of 75,000 Euro by the time they land (if not more these days with the costs in china increasing). These days there are few that will spend that kind of cash on a 'speculative' re-run? As has been highlighted, the market is small, probably closer to 600-700 'buyers' of Irish stock these days, and even that small number likely represents a doubling in the last 5 years, primarily thanks to the work put in and excellent models produced by paddy Murphy, Leslie (Provincial Models), SSM, Glenderg, DRM Models, Irish Freight Models and many more! A run of 504 of any one model is 'about right' I would think for this market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRich Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 One thing happens a lot with small runs for a small market is to produce a tooling that has a short shelf life and only so many runs can be produced before the tooling get's worn out. This doesn't happen with the bigger suppliers and they are able to re-use the tooling annually. I am not suggesting that MM have chosen that route, but other small manufacturers have. Rich, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) If models didn't sell out, there would be less incentive to do more runs, ironically, so the selling out of a model is a good thing, not the opposite. While that does sometimes mean the price of second hand can rise over time, particularly in the case of desirable, or rare or limited run models, such is the situation in all fields of collection / modelling / hobbies. Even a 'small' run of 504 locomotives, assuming all the tooling costs have already be absorbed (am sure some have not yet been) will cost north of 75,000 Euro by the time they land (if not more these days with the costs in china increasing). These days there are few that will spend that kind of cash on a 'speculative' re-run? As has been highlighted, the market is small, probably closer to 600-700 'buyers' of Irish stock these days, and even that small number likely represents a doubling in the last 5 years, primarily thanks to the work put in and excellent models produced by paddy Murphy, Leslie (Provincial Models), SSM, Glenderg, DRM Models, Irish Freight Models and many more! A run of 504 of any one model is 'about right' I would think for this market. Makes a lot of sense. It is remarkable that MM seem to have managed to sell over 10k locos in the past six years during the worst economic recession since the 1920s. If I understand it correctly the superb run of 141, 181, 071 and 201 locos only appeared on the market after Lehman brothers had collapsed in 2008 triggering the virtual collapse of most consumer markets. I've no idea how big the market is for Irish stock, but I guess most folk who have always wanted to own top quality RTR loco stock but could not get it before 2008 have probably bought by now. Personally if the production numbers stack up in the future, I would be keen to collect some MM variants of 121 class GMs, especially 001 class MVs, park royals and laminate (stainer like) coaching stock in B&T and Snail green liveries. Some of these locos are available in kit form or as specialist collector items but at a rather high price and don't seem to come with dual bogie all wheel drive and all wheel pickup chassis like the MM GMs which run better over Peco point work than any models I have ever owned. The MM 141/181 locos are master pieces of micro engineering. Produce 001s and 121s of the same standard as the 071s and I'd guess a significant portion of the existing existing customer based would jump at them. But that may be wishful thinking as newer modellers may be more interested in 22000, CAV Mk4, and 2800 type stock. Personally my modelling era interest is primarily the GM era of 60s and 70s. Personally I found the super train 'era' coaching livery rather bland and boring looking and the longer coaches don't fit as well on many model layouts (mk2 & mk3). At least the dual white stripes of the IE era gave coaches a visual lift which scales down better to models. As they say in the movies, the full size 201 class GMs never 'blew my skirt up' (if I had a skirt that is, or was Scottish). My loco interest ceased with the 071s. IMHO, silent DMUs, Darts and Luas aren't real trains! (running for cover now). There is nothing like the sound of GMs. Edited October 7, 2014 by Noel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aclass007 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) That's what I was alluding to, all the tooling etc. should be there for a re-run. Who commissioned extra models? Were they disatributed under the individual shops logo, Bachmann, not MM I'm sure? Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I remember it was Marks Models and Modelfair in the UK who jointly commissioned 171. This was shortly after all the 141/181's that MM produced had pretty much sold out as soon as they were released. 171 was commissioned in IE livery, because that was the most desired livery of the 141's. The packaging and logo were basically the same as the other 141/181's, I think. It was MM who produced the second run of 141 in the black and tan livery. This happened after the RPSI acquired 141. The second run of 141 differed from the original one in so far as it was modelled on the loco as it is today. For instance, it has the later LED marker lights, and there are other small differences. EDIT: Both of these locos are detailed on page 21 of the 'LIMA Murphy Models' thread in the 'Photos of models' section of the site... Edited October 7, 2014 by aclass007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aclass007 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 But that may be wishful thinking as newer modellers may be more interested in 22000, CAV Mk4, and 2800 type stock. Personally my modelling era interest is primarily the GM era of 60s and 70s. Personally I found the super train 'era' coaching livery rather bland and boring looking and the longer coaches don't fit as well on many model layouts (mk2 & mk3). At least the dual white stripes of the IE era gave coaches a visual lift which scales down better to models. As they say in the movies, the full size 201 class GMs never 'blew my skirt up' (if I had a skirt that is, or was Scottish). My loco interest ceased with the 071s. IMHO, silent DMUs, Darts and Luas aren't real trains! (running for cover now). There is nothing like the sound of GMs. No need to run! I think a lot here would share your view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I have to say I'm with 007 on that.... but maybe I suffer from Too-Many-Birthday Syndrome...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Makes a lot of sense. It is remarkable that MM seem to have managed to sell over 10k locos in the past six years during the worst economic recession since the 1920s. If I understand it correctly the superb run of 141, 181, 071 and 201 locos only appeared on the market after Lehman brothers had collapsed in 2008 triggering the virtual collapse of most consumer markets. I've no idea how big the market is for Irish stock, but I guess most folk who have always wanted to own top quality RTR loco stock but could not get it before 2008 have probably bought by now. Personally if the production numbers stack up in the future, I would be keen to collect some MM variants of 121 class GMs, especially 001 class MVs, park royals and laminate (stainer like) coaching stock in B&T and Snail green liveries. Some of these locos are available in kit form or as specialist collector items but at a rather high price and don't seem to come with dual bogie all wheel drive and all wheel pickup chassis like the MM GMs which run better over Peco point work than any models I have ever owned. The MM 141/181 locos are master pieces of micro engineering. Produce 001s and 121s of the same standard as the 071s and I'd guess a significant portion of the existing existing customer based would jump at them. But that may be wishful thinking as newer modellers may be more interested in 22000, CAV Mk4, and 2800 type stock. Personally my modelling era interest is primarily the GM era of 60s and 70s. Personally I found the super train 'era' coaching livery rather bland and boring looking and the longer coaches don't fit as well on many model layouts (mk2 & mk3). At least the dual white stripes of the IE era gave coaches a visual lift which scales down better to models. As they say in the movies, the full size 201 class GMs never 'blew my skirt up' (if I had a skirt that is, or was Scottish). My loco interest ceased with the 071s. IMHO, silent DMUs, Darts and Luas aren't real trains! (running for cover now). There is nothing like the sound of GMs. I'm completely with Noel on all of the points he raises in his post personally I would also jump at 121's earlier locomotives like a class laminates, Bredins etc. but also except his point that other modelers wish for more modern stock which goes back to my original post i.e. I think there is an increasing market for both newer and older models and we haven't even mentioned steam! Edited October 7, 2014 by DiveController Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 No need to run! I think a lot here would share your view. Here's one more:cheers: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Keegan Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) Hi Lads , I was talking to Paddy Murphy this evening and the pallet of 201's have arrived in Dublin . Custom and the VAT to be sorted before the 201's are released into the Murphy Models warehouse where they will prepared for the launch at the MRSI show . There are 200 models of NIR 208 River Lagan and 200 models of NIR 209 River Foyle . There are 250 models of Enterprise 230 River Bandon in original livery and 250 models of 233 River Clare same as 203 but with full yellow face . The prices are remaining the same as the current 201 until November and will increase . Paddy is aware of finances and advises to buy early before the price increase. Paddy will not have a definite price until later in the month . Paddy will have a few 141 / 181 spare loco chassis for sale at the show for €80 if anyone needs a replacement / spare . It is hoped to have samples of the up and coming MK11's Supertrain livery coaches at the show . Edited October 8, 2014 by Joe Keegan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railer Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Really hoping that 203 is a typo on the box and not on the model itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Keegan Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Really hoping that 203 is a typo on the box and not on the model itself. Corrected #230 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenderg Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Chassis only? Yes indeedy....plans afoot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riversuir226 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Chassis only .......... Yes please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) Hi Lads , I was talking to Paddy Murphy this evening and the pallet of 201's have arrived in Dublin . Custom and the VAT to be sorted before the 201's are released into the Murphy Models warehouse where they will prepared for the launch at the MRSI show . There are 200 models of NIR 208 River Lagan and 200 models of NIR 209 River Foyle . There are 250 models of Enterprise 230 River Bandon in original livery and 250 models of 233 River Clare same as 203 but with full yellow face . The prices are remaining the same as the current 201 until November and will increase . Paddy is aware of finances and advises to buy early before the price increase. Paddy will not have a definite price until later in the month . Paddy will have a few 141 / 181 spare loco chassis for sale at the show for €80 if anyone needs a replacement / spare . It is hoped to have samples of the up and coming MK11's Supertrain livery coaches at the show . Thanks for the feedback. Forgive, but unfortunately 201s and super train liveried Mk2 are not of interest to me personally. Not a fan of either in their bland early liveries (i.e. the prototypes not the models). Does anybody know what the current or future stock position of mk2 in intercity livery with twin white stripes and orange roof is or might be? Hopefully one day 121 and 001 may emerge as MM models if the marketing numbers stack up. If dreaming add Park Royal and Laminate coaches. For now I will enjoy operating the amazing 141/181 and 071 fleet I have collected. They can operate with a fantastic mix of rolling stock, especially older wagons and coaches. Edited October 9, 2014 by Noel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirflick Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Chassis only? Yes indeedy....plans afoot... whats the Boy Wonder up to now...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Chassis only .......... Yes please Would the 141 chassis fit CIE A or C class kits from Silver fox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riversuir226 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Wouldn t be suitable for the a class but with a bit of work it could just about fit in the c class Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirflick Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Wouldn t be suitable for the a class but with a bit of work it could just about fit in the c class it would be one sweet runner if it did fit. no great problem with the bogie side frames - a good sanding and fit the silverfox ones and bobs your uncle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenderg Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 bogie centres 141 has 22'6" 121 has 20'9" hunslet has 23'6" C Class has 21' either way there'd be a bit of choppin involved, but knock out 11mm out of a 141 chassis, and there's the ideal platform for a 121, bogie sideframes and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riversuir226 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Thinking of upgrading my c class and 121 chassis alright but the inside of themir body on the 121 would be a nightmare to sort out . The c class would be simples in comparision. Anyone for a much detestedlima cl 73 chassis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelred Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Just to clear something for me- 233 will be in Enterprise livery but with a full yellow face right?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riversuir226 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Yep full yellow ends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelred Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Cool, when i heard "like 203" i thought it was another orange one!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railer Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Cool, when i heard "like 203" i thought it was another orange one!! 203 is a typo for 230 that will be in old Enterprise with the yellow panel while 233 will be in the revised Enterprise with full yellow face. All the orange 201s are done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railer Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Forgive, but unfortunately 201s and super train liveried Mk2 are not of interest to me personally. Not a fan of either in their bland early liveries (i.e. the prototypes not the models). Does anybody know what the current or future stock position of mk2 in intercity livery with twin white stripes and orange roof is or might be? . The orange roof IR/IE Mk2Ds are the hardest and rarest models to find. Standards 5229 and 5236 are like gold dust. I managed to spy 5236 in one of Mr Bracken's collections over a year ago and I said just name your price. The black rook IE standards 5210 and 5217 are easy to find though, don't seem to be as popular which I find a bit odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 The orange roof IR/IE Mk2Ds are the hardest and rarest models to find. Standards 5229 and 5236 are like gold dust. I managed to spy 5236 in one of Mr Bracken's collections over a year ago and I said just name your price. The black rook IE standards 5210 and 5217 are easy to find though, don't seem to be as popular which I find a bit odd. 5229 is not fully sold out and us still available from vendors such as Hattons and maybe you side of the Irish Sea. 5236 seems to be hard to come by though. I wonder if there are more of these orange roofs to come since most of us would want to run a rake longer than two coaches and a GV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blu Bianco Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Is there any further news on the upcoming MM Supertrain coaches, regarding price, model numbers, price, etc? I know they've a long way to travel to get here by ship and then have to clear customs and all, and am no way holding them to the predicted late November arrival (well aware there can be delays here and there!) It was more to know as to if anyone had an update on them. I hope they arrive within the next week or abouts, and not the last thing before Christmas, as I don't fancy the cattle-shed journey in and battle to get back out of town with all the additional shopping crew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Train Man Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 The early liveries are scare on the ground these days except for maybe the 1st class coach. They will eventually sell as will the 201s and the 071s and the 121 will come. It will just take time. http://www.themodelshop.ie/model-railways/irish-railways/irish-rolling-stock/murphy-models-cie-cravens-ist-class-coach-early.html http://www.themodelshop.ie/model-railways/irish-railways/irish-rolling-stock/murphy-modes-cie-cravens-std-coach-no-1515-early.html http://www.themodelshop.ie/model-railways/irish-railways/irish-rolling-stock/murphy-models-cie-cravens-std-coach-early.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Mk2 in CIE super train Livery Its looking like January 2015... some may make it just before Christmas by air freight subject to the factory in China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Super train livery without the White lining not my cup of tea so won't be collecting any of those. But will continue collecting more of MM superb Cravens (and IFM park royals). Already have a nice rake of MM mk2d in later white lined liveries. But I know some are really looking forward to the ST coaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak425 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Super train livery without the White lining not my cup of tea so won't be collecting any of those. But will continue collecting more of MM superb Cravens (and IFM park royals). Already have a nice rake of MM mk2d in later white lined liveries. But I know some are really looking forward to the ST coaches. Who would have thought that we would be able to pick and choose what livery Mark 2s we would want. I have been waiting for the original Super Train Mark 2s so hopefully the wait is nearly over. How times have changed since I got my Lima Mark 2 set with the class 33 in the 70s ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Who would have thought that we would be able to pick and choose what livery Mark 2s we would want. I have been waiting for the original Super Train Mark 2s so hopefully the wait is nearly over. How times have changed since I got my Lima Mark 2 set with the class 33 in the 70s ! Great to have them, and to know that something changes in Ireland every 30-40 years:rolleyes: Noel I know you like a little Tipp-ex in your livery but I have a few little beauties waiting on these:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 ... How times have changed since I got my Lima Mark 2 set with the class 33 in the 70s ! Got that badge, Lima Cl 33 with BR Mk1's repainted black'n'tan. I have about 10 of those BR mk1 CIE livery coaches and two 33's. Hideous things, but back then I thought they were the best thing since sliced pans. Now that the bar has been raised to MM loco standard, I consider the old Lima stock as mere non-biodegradable waste material. ...Noel I know you like a little Tipp-ex in your livery but I have a few little beauties waiting on these:D Hi Kevin, comprendee. I've hung my coat on early Black livery 141/181s with the large tipp-ex and small lower tab band which are ideal to haul Cravens, Park Royals, Laminates and Bredins. I know you've been looking forward to the ST Mk2's, so enjoy them and the high standard that MM quality guarantees. Noel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Hi Kevin, comprendee. I've hung my coat on early Black livery 141/181s with the large tipp-ex and small lower tab band which are ideal to haul Cravens, Park Royals, Laminates and Bredins. I know you've been looking forward to the ST Mk2's, so enjoy them and the high standard that MM quality guarantees. Noel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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