Ballyhaise - Does anyone have a track plan?

[Richard EH]

Hi all,

 

Returning member from the previous forum (old ID: Ben Racey), some may remember the 3d printed E class I'd built using a 'bullant' chassis. I'm still working on various Irish models, mostly GNRi based, and hope to release some 3d bits of interest soon.

 

After the change to the new forum, I lost touch with the board, however, it's good to be back!

 

When musing over an old peco 'plans for small railways' booklet, for a few layout plans, I thought that an interesting project might be Belturbet - Ballyhaise. There are plenty of drawings of the station and layout at Belturbet, but very little at Ballyhaise. The usual GNRi books feature the odd photo in the station, but I haven't been able to find a track plan of the station area. Does anyone have a drawing or know where one is published?

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Regards

 

Richard.

[jhb171achill]

I have seen one somewhere, must delve. One of the Colourpoint "Irish Railways in Pictures" had enough pics of the place to provide a wealth of detail for a modeller. It would indeed make a fascinating subject for a model.

 

Towards the end, in the 1957-9 period when it lost its passenger service and came under CIE ownership, the track was lifted at the main platform and the daily parcels / goods workings both used just the island platform, though with state ownership being so short-lived, it very much retained its GNR atmosphere to the end.

[burnthebox]

Hi all,

 

Returning member from the previous forum (old ID: Ben Racey), some may remember the 3d printed E class I'd built using a 'bullant' chassis. I'm still working on various Irish models, mostly GNRi based, and hope to release some 3d bits of interest soon.

 

After the change to the new forum, I lost touch with the board, however, it's good to be back!

 

When musing over an old peco 'plans for small railways' booklet, for a few layout plans, I thought that an interesting project might be Belturbet - Ballyhaise. There are plenty of drawings of the station and layout at Belturbet, but very little at Ballyhaise. The usual GNRi books feature the odd photo in the station, but I haven't been able to find a track plan of the station area. Does anyone have a drawing or know where one is published?

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Regards

 

Richard.

 

Hi Richard & welcome back, I won't be able to give you any help in your plans for the said Bally ? stsaion, but you should get all the help you need on here,I'll need similar help in the future with my own plans,

Regards

Paul

[Richard EH]

Thanks for the welcome back! I was thinking of looking at it in the pre 1957 years.

 

Regards

 

Richard.

[Mayner]

Hi Richard.

 

Good to see you are back try the Ordnace Survey map viewer http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,591271,743300,0,10. does not seem to be working at the moment but old layout at Ballyhaise is definitely on it.

[murrayec]

Hi Richard

 

maybe try the people in Belturbet Station they may have some old drawings

 

Belturbet Railway Station, Belturbet Co Cavan, Ireland. Railway Road, Belturbet, Co. Cavan. Tel: +353(0)499522074. Email: info@belturbet-station.com

 

murrayec

[Glenderg]

 

From top of turntable at north to bridge at the south works out at a scale 6000mm in 00. R.

[BosKonay]

Some links

http://www.signalbox.org/overseas/ireland/ballyhaisenorth.htm

 

http://www.geograph.ie/photo/2937037

[jhb171achill]

That first pic shows it in pre closure state with platform road on right lifted; ie in CIE days.

[RedRich]

Less then 23 hours since the OP and all that info, take a bow lad's. Welcome to the group Richard that will make an awesome layout with plenty of interest.

 

Rich,

[jhb171achill]

Quiz question: what resulted in the visitation of a green "A" class + train to Ballyhaise? (It didn't stop, just passed through...)

[jhb171achill]

Afterthought: artistic licence plays an interesting part on many layouts. Had the Dundalk - Clones - Cavan - Mullingar section remained in use until the 1967 closures, old ex GNR stuff, now mostly re liveried in green or occasional new black'n'tan, would have mingled with classes A, C, and AEC railcars of both GN and CIE parentage....

[Richard EH]

Hi guys,

 

Many thanks for the links and for the map, that's really helpful, thank you!

 

It is meeting what my inkling was - it's quite a 'european' layout really, if you took away the platforms, it has an element of a continental track plan, 5 loop lines being really the key to it.

 

I'm interested in looking at it, as based on one of the peco 'plans for small railways' it might work well. I've been thinking for a while that modelling a branch terminus, or station - more of an exhibition layout - doesn't actually give you much of a model railway, more of a model station....therefore, ballyhaise on one side, branch going up one side with Belturbet over the fiddle yard at the back. Narrow gauge making a bit of a cameo appearance only. That way, it gives you a 'roundy'(technical term!!), on the low level, also gives a branch with a bit of end to end traffic. Not sure exactly how it will look, but will mull over and post updates as and when......

 

Quite happy to run my GNRi stock on it, though I must admit, my 071/141/E class, and maybe some other oddities will also make an appearance!

 

Regards

 

Richard.

[BosKonay]

Sounds great Richard - keep us posted!

[Mayner]

Afterthought: artistic licence plays an interesting part on many layouts. Had the Dundalk - Clones - Cavan - Mullingar section remained in use until the 1967 closures, old ex GNR stuff, now mostly re liveried in green or occasional new black'n'tan, would have mingled with classes A, C, and AEC railcars of both GN and CIE parentage....

 

JHB

 

The scenarios are limitless the GNR remaining independent of CIE & the UTA with Irish North and Ulster Railway lines surviving and modernised with fast Belfast-Cavan-Enniskillen sprinter railcar services and German diesel hydraulics on freight services.

 

Heavy cattle and later container traffic from the Midlands and South to the Port of Belfast over the Central of Ireland line from Portlaoise to Mullingar and Midland Cavan Branch, perhaps mulit-unit lash ups of black and silver MGWR F Units or Blue and Cream GNR G8 & 12 diesels;). The Midland & Great Northern seriously considered amalgamation in the 1920s and the South Eastern did not want to have anything to do with the GSR.

 

Looking at photos of Ballyhaise there appears to have connected at the island platform. There was not enough room for the branch loco to run-round without blocking the main line, so the branch train probably had to shunt to the middle road or "branch" platform to run round.

 

The post 1957 rationalisation would have made life interesting if the Dundalk-Cavan goods were working the branch. In the absence of a run-round loop at the junction, did they run separate Clones-Belturbet and Clones-Cavan trips and spend another 2-3 hours on the road or break up, re-marshal and run round their train using the goods shed road.

 

There is a photo of a Big D approaching Ballyhaise with a freight from Cavan in 1956 in the Great Northern picture album, probably about 30 wagons not exactly short.

[josefstadt]

Quiz question: what resulted in the visitation of a green "A" class + train to Ballyhaise? (It didn't stop, just passed through...)

 

I give up!

[jhb171achill]

Mayner, I understand that the one goods train on reaching Ballyhaise, ran up to Belturbet and back, before going on to Cavan. Right at the very end, it was just Cavan, the Belturbet branch having just closed.

 

Josefstadt and others; a GAA special from Monaghan headed by an "A" passed through just before the line closed. Coaching stock was of CIE rather than GN origin. Symphony in green, deep in GN land.

[Kirley]

Two pictures of Ballyhaise Junction in 1956 on page 103 of 'The Great Northern Railway (Ireland) in Colour'.

One picture on page 16 of 'Railways in Ulster's Lakeland'.

[Richard EH]

So legitimate reason for running an A class, even if it is a bit after when I was planning to base it, but, well, if it's my railway....Does anyone know which A it was?

 

Thanks Kirley, I've those two books, and those photos will be useful. Seeing the plan helps to set it all in the right context.

 

Regards

 

Richard.

[jhb171achill]

I think, but am not certain... The same A55 as in Hells Kitchen in Castlerea. Coaches were, as far as I recall, non corridor ex-GSWR bogie stock in CIE green. Leading couple of coaches were, anyway. In GNR days, a UTA-owned ex-NCC "U2" class 4.4.0 was a regular there for a short time when the GNR had it on trial on Belfast - Cavan trains. GNR stock was used, of course; usually 2-3 coaches and a few vans. The GN also tried out an AEC set on Cavan trains briefly, though later they rarely ventured beyond Clones.

[Richard EH]

Ahh, A55, had a few guinnesses at Hells Kitchen in previous years, thanks for that!

 

Regards

 

Richard

[josefstadt]

Josefstadt and others; a GAA special from Monaghan headed by an "A" passed through just before the line closed. Coaching stock was of CIE rather than GN origin. Symphony in green, deep in GN land.

 

Thanks jhb

[Guest hidden-agenda]

Welcome back glad to see some taking an interest in this station and i look forward to pics as you go when building the lay-out.

[StevieB]

There are some lovely photos of Ballyhaise Junction on pages 63-65 of Tom Ferris's Irish Railways in Colour. It looked a delightful spot where the peace of the Irish countryside was broken just a handful of times each day as mainline and branch trains arrived and departed over a relatively short period of time.

Stephen

[Mayner]

Besides the GNR locos and borrowed UTA Castle, J15s also showed up at Ballyhaise, there is a photo of one in Belturbet recovering material from the C&L in PJ Flannigans C&L Irish Photo Album and in CIE days a J15 caused consternation when it arrived in Dundalk from Inny Junction without a (GN) Pilot man on the Weed Spray

 

I always wondered about that A Class hauled GAA special to Monaghan did it work in from Dundalk over the Irish North or over the Midland line. There is a photo of the train in Monaghan & the 1st coach looks like one of the ex LNWR coaches bought by the GNR during the 1940s. I suppose it depends on whether it was bringing supporters from the Midlands to a match in Monaghan, or Monaghan supports elsewhere.

 

The Clones-Cavan line seems to have been much more "main line" in status than the ex-MGWR line from Inny Junction. The Great Northern line seems to have been important enough to have had a relatively frequent direct service to Belfast complete with corridor stock, while GSR patrons had to make do with square wheelers and change for Dublin at Mullingar. CIE threw the towel in fairly quickly discontinuing Mullingar-Cavan passenger services and closing the Killeshandra line.

 

I might have to re-write history a little bit with a joint Midland & GNR Kells-Cavan-Enniskillen line.

 

The track rationalisation seems to have taken place in GNR days very shortly after the ending of passenger services, its recorded in the Oct 57 IRN, its still leaves me wondering whether the crew of the Clones-Cavan goods, ran direct to Belturbet, shunted the yard then reversed back 4 miles to the junction, with the risk of de-railment and buffer lock, before continuing down the main line to Cavan or had a means of running round at the junction.

[BSGSV]

So legitimate reason for running an A class, even if it is a bit after when I was planning to base it, but, well, if it's my railway....Does anyone know which A it was?

 

There is a photo in an IRRS Journal showing A11 on a GAA special in Monaghan in July 1959, which I suspect is the origin for JHB's original question. The coach nearest the loco is clearly stencilled "CIE" which suggests it is of GNRI origin.

[jhb171achill]

That's the one, BSGSV. The loco had previously been resident in Dundalk, as CIE used an A for the Carrickmacross goods, while ex-GN 0.6.0s were used on the Dundalk-Clones-Ballyhaise*-Belturbet-Cavan goods.

 

* yes, even after rationalisation, run round could take place at Ballyhaise, either side of the island platform.

[Irishswissernie]

R M Arnold described workings through Ballyhaise plus sketch plan and photos in Volume 2 of "The Golden Years of the Great Northern Railway" Pages 144 to 161

[Richard EH]

Thanks for the further updates everyone, that's very helpful. I have the Tom Ferris book, but will keep an eye out for the Golden Years of the GNR book, don't have a copy of that.

 

Regards

 

Richard.

[jhb171achill]

Very hard to pin down, Richard. The RPSIs second hand book stock is probably your best bet, or eBay.

[Irishswissernie]

 

Here is the WTT plus Belturbet branch WTT. On sundays there was only one working, a provisional return path to Bundoran!

 

Ernie

[Irishswissernie]

I have uploaded the 1 July 1917 Working timetable to my Flickr set:

 

 

as this is 10 pages long.

[BosKonay]

[Richard EH]

Thanks Guys, will have a look at that in detail over time.

 

Currently thinking a 10x5 layout will work for this. Will post up some plans when I've got something together.

 

Regards

 

Richard.