dave182 Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) Here is a brilliant clip outlining CIEs plans for modernisation in the 70's. Of particular interest- there are some great shots of really unusual wagons and interesting first draft prototypes. Bogie fertiliser and pallet cement wagons like you may not have seen before. Also some very early 'Bell' containers, and brand new Bells that we know today. Some great inspiration if you are looking for unusual wagons for your layout, or want to know what was running during this period of change in Irish rails. Edited November 8, 2014 by dave182 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Great clip Dave! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Great clip Dave! Great find. Enjoyed watching that. Very nostalgic. Different h&s back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnthebox Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) Totally mega, really enjoyed that nostalgic piece of time, have my own reasons for remembering 1974 Someone please tell me the title of that piece of music at the beginning of that video, and let me get some rest Edited November 8, 2014 by burnthebox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 The video includes earlier CIE publicity material including the Cork Glanmire Road-Alexandra Road B&I liner Irelands 1st company train and footage filmed or the introduction of the Supertrain in 1972. Interesting to see CIE filmed the Supertrain on the South-Eastern, publicity included a poster of an aerial photo of the train passing Avoca village. I always thought 001 looked really well with the roof painted black. The modernisation plan was pared/cut back radically as CIEs financial position worsened, while most of the freight part was implemented, it took another 30 years to upgrade the track and signalling to modern standards. The plan was a lot more wide reaching than just freight and basically involved total route modernisation in addition to the new trains. Push-pull trains were to be used on Dublin-Waterford & Dublin-Limerick passenger services, some freights were planned to go out by one route and return by another. At one stage there were plans to serve Waterford and Wexford with one sundries train serving South Eastern & Kilkenny line depots. The bogie fertiliser wagons with their steel mesh doors were originally nicknamed Long Kesh wagons. Sundries traffic was originally to be carried in block trains of 60' sliding door vans. Some of the H&S stuff is scary, I wonder how may of those Inchacore workers in the video ended up without some form of occupational disease. Internationally railways were never good at looking after their workers health Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 The video includes earlier CIE publicity material including the Cork Glanmire Road-Alexandra Road B&I liner Irelands 1st company train and footage filmed or the introduction of the Supertrain in 1972. Interesting to see CIE filmed the Supertrain on the South-Eastern, publicity included a poster of an aerial photo of the train passing Avoca village. I always thought 001 looked really well with the roof painted black. The modernisation plan was pared/cut back radically as CIEs financial position worsened, while most of the freight part was implemented, it took another 30 years to upgrade the track and signalling to modern standards. The plan was a lot more wide reaching than just freight and basically involved total route modernisation in addition to the new trains. Push-pull trains were to be used on Dublin-Waterford & Dublin-Limerick passenger services, some freights were planned to go out by one route and return by another. At one stage there were plans to serve Waterford and Wexford with one sundries train serving South Eastern & Kilkenny line depots. The bogie fertiliser wagons with their steel mesh doors were originally nicknamed Long Kesh wagons. Sundries traffic was originally to be carried in block trains of 60' sliding door vans. Some of the H&S stuff is scary, I wonder how may of those Inchacore workers in the video ended up without some form of occupational disease. Internationally railways were never good at looking after their workers health Probably why it failed, John. Difficult to be competitive without the infrastructure. Wonder how much it would cost now, 23m punts then, billions now. It would be interesting to see if that had been implemented how the network would look now and whether the railways would be in greater usage for both passenger and freight, like European counterparts, not to mention the huge socioeconomic benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aclass007 Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) That's the first time I saw the fertiliser wagons with the mesh doors. Would I be right in thinking they were originally produced with the mesh doors, and later upgraded with steel doors because the mesh wasn't up to the job, or was there another reason to change them? Edited November 8, 2014 by aclass007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave182 Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 Working in reverse order... AClass007 I would imagine that flaunting pallets of fertiliser cargo may not just have been ideal during 'The troubles' so maybe an issue of security?? However I suspect that if they kept the lighter wire mesh frames then the wagon doors would have operated as intended, i.e. sliding in between the pallets, and not modified to hinged doors. Divecontroller, couldn't agree more! IRL£ 23m seems like a smart investment then compared to what it might cost now! Finally John, it's such a brilliant video and you obviously understand what was going on at the time. What strikes me is that some of the stuff going on was quite ground breaking and pioneering! Just a shame that it never quite got to be realised- what an amazingly different network we might have now! As for H&S... Yer man spray-painting brown oxide on to the fert wagons, probably high as a kite! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killucan2 Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 There's a lot more CIE films like that where that one came from,the next I've seen was from 1987 with fast track with A's 071s and even a C in north wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DERAILED Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 CIE in La La Land would be a better title for the film. Freight customers were canvassed for where they would prefer the Dublin Sundries depot to be located - they chose Heuston so CIE put it in the North Wall. The proposed bogie Sundries wagons in the film were abandoned and 10ft containers chosen instead but somebody forgot to order enough of them and a huge amount of traffic was lost. Stations proposed for major freight redevelopment back then included Clonmel, Castleisland & Listowel! The beginning of the end rather than a new beginning. Interesting film all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirflick Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 really enjoyed that video. great to see the fert wagons being produced, and i never knew that the bagged cement wagons were in the boxite livery! gets the mind working again...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eiretrains Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 really enjoyed that video. great to see the fert wagons being produced, and i never knew that the bagged cement wagons were in the boxite livery! gets the mind working again......[ATTACH=CONFIG]15840[/ATTACH] Just remember though, most of the wagons featured in the clips were just a few prototypes and not the final product, the 'Ex' on the side of the wagons indicate those which were 'experimental', the bogey sundries for instance was never development into a fleet and the doors on the bagged ferts were quickly replaced with the standard doors than the cages featured in the demonstration clips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craven1508 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 any more clips? it really was a different world 40 years ago:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Indeed it was, Craven. It was really a steam-era railway, but with diesels at the head of trains! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirflick Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Just remember though, most of the wagons featured in the clips were just a few prototypes and not the final product, the 'Ex' on the side of the wagons indicate those which were 'experimental', the bogey sundries for instance was never development into a fleet and the doors on the bagged ferts were quickly replaced with the standard doors than the cages featured in the demonstration clips. good point, but one or two mixed with a freight train of the era would look that bit different on any layout....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UP6936 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Anyone know what becams of the big Sundries van featured? Was it cut up after the fleet wasn't built? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenderg Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000308290 Not sure, but i reckon that's a 62' flat with ridemaster bogies? Possibly just recycled the upper part if thats the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I think the continued survival of the railways has more to do with changes in social & economic policy in the 1960s that reversed the long term decline in rail passenger figures rather than any coherent government transport policy or actions by CIE. Passenger figures were in decline since the 1920s, the trend only started to reverse with the improved economy in the late 60s, fewer people emigrating, higher income and probably most significantly a new travel hungry student class with more people staying on in education into their 20s than emigrating or settling down and starting a family. The implementation of Railplan 80 slowed rather than reversed the long term decline in railfreight, tonnage basically dropped year by year in the 70s & 80s as many Irish companies developed their own road fleets to get around CIEs near monopoly on road haulage. The growth of the Courier companies basically wiped out sundries and parcel traffic, railways struggle to make money on container and timber traffic, leaving Tara the only heavy bulk flow though this is probably marginally profitable, ore trains of less than 1000 tonnes gross are very light by international standards. With light tonnage and short line hauls the writing was on the wall for Irish railfreight once the road haulage was de-regulated in the early 1990s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnthebox Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Came accross this & I thought it's related to the above tread. !!! Interesting stock anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirley Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Delightful film clip showing a different pace of life back then. Great to see Wagons been loaded and how it was done. Many thanks for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I remember seeing some of that in action in Waterford in the 70s. I remember the caged sundries traffic being delivered round the town. Pity it all failed. Just what will future Irish railway modellers model from the 2005 onwards. I can't imagine , at least you won't need many models Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riversuir226 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I remember seeing some of that in action in Waterford in the 70s. I remember the caged sundries traffic being delivered round the town. Pity it all failed. Just what will future Irish railway modellers model from the 2005 onwards. I can't imagine , at least you won't need many models Timber, liners(pocket,47ft,42ft), bogie spoil, autoballasters, cement bubble & bogie, weedspray rake, sperry rake..... It ll keep me busy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Trams.... ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weshty Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Super video. £23m is about eur700 in terms of equivalent economic cost today. It still more than likely grossly underestimated the true cost of course, but nothing new there given the original Luas was supposed to come in at a third of the final bill. Very impressed with the local building of the flats and fertilisers. All that skill set gone to the four winds now I'd imagine. And as Mayner said, once companies were not locked into the overpriced CIE monopoly, it all fell by the wayside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRENNEIRE Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Might be of interest to some http://euscreen.eu/item.html?id=EUS_5E4247259EC3428D8AD687392E441B69 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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