Railer Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Just looking at the pictures printed on the boxes of the 201s tonight and 2 of them stood out. One was the picture of 222, it's captured in the IC livery leaving Connolly on a push pull Mk3 service, clearly on a rail tour or GAA special. What got me was that the loco is the wrong way round. All the push pull capable 201s were turned during the late '90s so that the no1 end faced North out of Connolly, same on the Heuston side of the network. By the time the IC livery was in use ist was very rare to see a loco reversed. The other is the picture of 207 on the box of 233. Looks like 207 is hauling an Enterprise Mk3 EGV but again the loco is the worng way around unless it was on an EGV transfer from Belfast to Dublin. It's hard to place it from the photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Just looking at the pictures printed on the boxes of the 201s tonight and 2 of them stood out. One was the picture of 222, it's captured in the IC livery leaving Connolly on a push pull Mk3 service, clearly on a rail tour or GAA special. What got me was that the loco is the wrong way round. All the push pull capable 201s were turned during the late '90s so that the no1 end faced North out of Connolly, same on the Heuston side of the network. By the time the IC livery was in use ist was very rare to see a loco reversed. The other is the picture of 207 on the box of 233. Looks like 207 is hauling an Enterprise Mk3 EGV but again the loco is the worng way around unless it was on an EGV transfer from Belfast to Dublin. It's hard to place it from the photo. Is it possible to post a photo of that, Railer? I don't have any MM 201 boxes and could not find a good photo of the box online. I'm never quite sure which cab end is which on 141s, 071s and 201s. If anyone could post a photo of each to help ID the ends, that would be very helpful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railer Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 I'll post up some shot later this evening when I get home. I don't know which end is which on the 141s or 071s. On the 201s, the no1 end is the silencer end. Or as some call is the "big" cab end as the drivers doors are further away from the side windows that the other end. An easy way to tell is the fuel tank is at the no2 end. I think the no2 end of the 071s is the fan end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UP6936 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 On a 141, No2 end is the one with the grille on the body side. From inside the cab photos if you see any, No1 cab has the starting controls and electrical cabinet, 2 doesn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelred Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) The Loco's were frequently turned the 'wrong way' (Cab 2 end leading) especially when the Mark IV's arrived in the begining . From an operating point of view it didn't make any difference, as both Cab controls are identical, apart from the MU2 Cock which is located in Cab 1 (the bigger Cab) It was the Driver Reps that requested they all be turned correctly (which is done in Limerick Jct) as we felt there was a health & Safety issue when shunting the Mark IV's in the tunnel in Cork, as (a) you had to change Cab ends in a dark, smoky tunnel to switch out/in the MU2 cock in the other Cab when changing direction (b) if all the air in the brake pipes wasn't expended fully, the train would roll while you were changing Cab ends! © The engine is directly behind Cab 2 so noise levels in Cab 2 were a lot louder than Cab 1. It took a while to get them all turned so hence why you can see the mentioned photos. Hope this helps.... Edited June 5, 2015 by rebelred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railer Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Thank's for the info rebelred. I thought all the 201s were turned around the time the Enterprise stock was delivered in 1997 as I have never seen a 201 with cab 2 leading on the Enterprise. Same when the 201s worked Mk3 PPs on the Northern line in the late '90s they all seemed to be turned compared to when they first entered service. Suppose it is/was a much easier process to get a 201 assigned to the Enterprise turned at the GVS junction triangle. Edited June 5, 2015 by Railer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aclass007 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The Loco's were frequently turned the 'wrong way' (Cab 2 end leading) especially when the Mark IV's arrived in the begining . From an operating point of view it didn't make any difference, as both Cab controls are identical, apart from the MU2 Cock which is located in Cab 1 (the bigger Cab) It was the Driver Reps that requested they all be turned correctly (which is done in Limerick Jct) as we felt there was a health & Safety issue when shunting the Mark IV's in the tunnel in Cork, as (a) you had to change Cab ends in a dark, smoky tunnel to switch out/in the MU2 cock in the other Cab when changing direction (b) if all the air in the brake pipes wasn't expended fully, the train would roll while you were changing Cab ends! © The engine is directly behind Cab 2 so noise levels in Cab 2 were a lot louder than Cab 1. It took a while to get them all turned so hence why you can see the mentioned photos. Hope this helps.... Is it possible to walk through the engine room of a 201 to get from one cab to the other, as it was in the A/001's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricanemk1c Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Think you can, but seriously not recommended. There's a story somewhere of a loco inspector loosing his head (literally) when the engine threw a leg out of bed as he was inspecting the engine whilst it was running Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinner75 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 All good reasons for having the #1 end leading on the 201s! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelred Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Yes, you can walk through the engine room from one Cab to another on one side only, it's noisy,hot & covered in oil in there so not a nice place to stay long in, see pic... The Loco's had to lead with Cab 1 on the Enterprise because of Head-end power at the time so there is no pics of that but should be plenty floating around of Mark IVs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 On a 141, No2 end is the one with the grille on the body side. From inside the cab photos if you see any, No1 cab has the starting controls and electrical cabinet, 2 doesn't So the Number 1 end is on the right with the steps slightly offset to nearer the No. 1 cab and the grille on the left adjacent No.2. Roof grille also nearer to No.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railer Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Yes I believe that is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UP6936 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Yep that's it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railer Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Here are the pictures. I find the one of 207 interesting because it looks like it does not yet have it's yellow face but to me that appears to be an Enterprise modified Mk3 EGV that it's hauling with the no2 end leading, it's also possibly the cleanest that loco has been in a very long time. But 207 had a full yellow face before the EGV modifications began so it must be something else or a trick of the light. It's not a Mk4 end coach as they are flat ends with more cable connections. Unless it's on an EGV stock transfer like when 221 hauled all 4 to Belfast from Inchicore. Edited June 5, 2015 by Railer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) I think the no2 end of the 071s is the fan end. 088 Supertrain.bmp So for 071s, the number one cab end is on the right with the side steps offset nearer the number one cab and the large body grille adjacent to the Number 2 can along with the roof fans, correct? Edited June 5, 2015 by DiveController Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railer Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Yep same again, like the 141 layout, the steps are closer the no1 cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Yep same again, like the 141 layout, the steps are closer the no1 cab. Yes, began to see the pattern! Easy to figure it out all of a sudden. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelred Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Yes, began to see the pattern! Easy to figure it out all of a sudden. Thanks! You learn something new every day!! 😲 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aclass007 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Just to confuse things a little, on the A and C class Metrovicks the number one end was the end where the fan and grille is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aclass007 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Yes, you can walk through the engine room from one Cab to another on one side only, it's noisy,hot & covered in oil in there so not a nice place to stay long in, see pic... The Loco's had to lead with Cab 1 on the Enterprise because of Head-end power at the time so there is no pics of that but should be plenty floating around of Mark IVs Thanks, rebelred. Great answer, especially with the photo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railer Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Just to confuse things a little, on the A and C class Metrovicks the number one end was the end where the fan and grille is... That's because with British locos the cooling group is generally at the no1 end and it's the opposite for American designs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aclass007 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Yes, began to see the pattern! Easy to figure it out all of a sudden. Thanks! I think the easiest way to work it out is to look at the single cabbed 121's. The radiator, fan and grilles are all at the end furthest from the cab. The 141 in simple terms is a 121 with a second cab (cab number two) attached at the other end.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I think the easiest way to work it out is to look at the single cabbed 121's. The radiator, fan and grilles are all at the end furthest from the cab. The 141 in simple terms is a 121 with a second cab (cab number two) attached at the other end.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) On the 201s, the no1 end is the silencer end. Or as some call is the "big" cab end as the drivers doors are further away from the side windows that the other end. An easy way to tell is the fuel tank is at the no2 end.. Looks like the big cab (Cab 1) is on the right. I now know that the thing on the roof of 201s is the silencer, and I presume the large underframe tank directly 'in front' of the rear bogies is the fuel tank? Edited June 6, 2015 by DiveController Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelred Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Yes Dive, Fuel tank is behind the bogies on the smaller Cab 2 end. Cab 1 has a bigger gap between the side doors & windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aclass007 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Yes Dive, Fuel tank is behind the bogies on the smaller Cab 2 end. Cab 1 has a bigger gap between the side doors & windows. Is there actually any difference in the size of the two cabs internally? Even though there is a bigger gap between the door and side windows at the number one end, my understanding is that this extra area contains the electrical control cabinets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricanemk1c Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 There is - not much but you can tell looking in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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