Prototype operation of models & layout design

[jhb171achill]

1. Loco runs round, backs up against passenger stock and pushes them clear of points towards Dromod - 3 moves.

 

2. Loco runs through loop and backs against liner, pushing it back against carriages - 2 moves.

 

3. Pulls whole lot forward (Dublin direction) through yard loop, stops to uncouple carriages, and sets off for Dublin - 1 move.

 

Is that what happened, at a guess?

[Old Blarney]

Model Railway Solution

Task No 1.

 

Pick-up coaches from track

Place Coaches in a safe location (Somewhere the cat can't get at then)

 

Task No 2.

Remove the locomotive "Hand of God" to liner track.

Have another "Gin and Tonic"

Go to Bed

Next day.

 

Replace rolling stock on track and run the Railway!!

 

Happy Christmas to one and all.

[josefstadt]

Model Railway Solution

Task No 1.

 

Pick-up coaches from track

Place Coaches in a safe location (Somewhere the cat can't get at then)

 

Task No 2.

Remove the locomotive "Hand of God" to liner track.

Have another "Gin and Tonic"

Go to Bed

Next day.

 

Replace rolling stock on track and run the Railway!!

 

Happy Christmas to one and all.

 

:ROFL:

And many happy returns!!!!

[jhb171achill]

Ahhhhhhh

 

I completely forgot the cat!!!!!!!

 

Likewise, happy Christmas to one and all....

[David Holman]

Re exhibitions, my own view is that the customer comes first, after all they are paying good money to come in. So, as much movement as possible on the layout, without it becoming silly, plus good scenics, buildings etc for those times when nothing is moving - inevitable on a terminus fiddle yard sent up.

Now, my take on that is likely to be different to the next person's, so it is therefore up to the exhibition organisers to ensure their show has a reasonable balance of displays. For general shows, this surely means are range of scales/gauges/prototypes/eras etc, large tail chasers and detailed dioramas, something for the kids, plus a good range of traders.

The size of the show depends on what can be offered and the bigger it is, the more that can be accommodated. At my club, we try very hard to invite only those layouts that are interesting to look at and run well, though are obviously dependent on what is available at the time. Really good layouts can be like buses: none for a while, then several come along at once.

So, while for me a really good show would be host to my favourite traders and display layouts of obscure prototypes alongside busy tail chasers, that would not be everyone's cup of tea. Appreciating there is a variety of interest out there is really important. Likewise, when inviting traders, you do not want multiple stalls selling the same thing. At one local show I counted no less than ten book sellers, with twice that number of second hand box shifters. OK for a swap meet maybe, but surely not a model show.

Since 1987, I've exhibited at close to 100 shows and visited at least as many as a customer. Few people spend more that a couple of minutes at each layout and will move on in much less if nothing is moving. The only layouts to challenge that are the exceptional scenic ones. Gordon and Maggie Gravetts layouts are worth looking at regardless of movement, likewise Bramblewick Cove and Hursley and Petherick. All their builders are also consummate artists, which perhaps says it all...

[Blaine]

Re exhibitions, my own view is that the customer comes first, after all they are paying good money to come in. So, as much movement as possible on the layout, without it becoming silly, plus good scenics, buildings etc for those times when nothing is moving - inevitable on a terminus fiddle yard sent up.

Now, my take on that is likely to be different to the next person's, so it is therefore up to the exhibition organisers to ensure their show has a reasonable balance of displays. For general shows, this surely means are range of scales/gauges/prototypes/eras etc, large tail chasers and detailed dioramas, something for the kids, plus a good range of traders.

The size of the show depends on what can be offered and the bigger it is, the more that can be accommodated. At my club, we try very hard to invite only those layouts that are interesting to look at and run well, though are obviously dependent on what is available at the time. Really good layouts can be like buses: none for a while, then several come along at once.

So, while for me a really good show would be host to my favourite traders and display layouts of obscure prototypes alongside busy tail chasers, that would not be everyone's cup of tea. Appreciating there is a variety of interest out there is really important. Likewise, when inviting traders, you do not want multiple stalls selling the same thing. At one local show I counted no less than ten book sellers, with twice that number of second hand box shifters. OK for a swap meet maybe, but surely not a model show.

Since 1987, I've exhibited at close to 100 shows and visited at least as many as a customer. Few people spend more that a couple of minutes at each layout and will move on in much less if nothing is moving. The only layouts to challenge that are the exceptional scenic ones. Gordon and Maggie Gravetts layouts are worth looking at regardless of movement, likewise Bramblewick Cove and Hursley and Petherick. All their builders are also consummate artists, which perhaps says it all...

 

Nail on head, for the Irish market its a bit different as there is a bit more of a general crowd but at Warley in 2015 there were Lego and Playmobil layouts, but most of the big kids enjoyed the massive Hornby Dublo layout the most - granted it was a display of Hornby Dublo but no scenery or 'modelling' to speak of, just lots of tinplate trains running on the tinplate track along with the metal on metal sound. Most entertaining.

 

You cant please everyone at a show, the height of some layouts/people allows them to see into the fiddle yard and 'request' a train too, which most operators are happy to fulfill. Its why they are called 'Exhibitions' or 'Shows' rather than 'Exact recreations of railway scenes/operations in minature' - the old shrinking ray has yet to leave the beta development stage....

[jhb171achill]

As long as the venue for the exhibition had a bar nearby, it's a good exhibition. If far away, it's a bad exhibition.

 

That's my technically considered opinion.... :-)

[Blaine]

I've been mulling this over for a bit. If I had an exhibition layout, let's say 16' long 2' wide, a perfect replica of say Askeaton, where would I start with the operational side of things?

 

I'd have scale speed for arrivals. But I'm hardly going to have the train stopped for 5 minutes waiting for yer man with the flag?

 

I know sod all about shunting rules, and I know how to make semaphore signals, but haven't a baldy about placement or operation.I'd sooner eat an operating manual than read it.

 

So David, what do you, Andy,Ed, or the many exhibitors think is the happy medium? Is there one? Keep the audience or the operator happy?

 

Keep the audience happy - 100%. Im sure when The Eagles go on tour they are sick to death of playing 'Hotel California', but its what lots of people have paid them to do, so they do it

[Mayner]

Its interesting how the discussion has focused on what the public expect at exhibitions as opposed to layout operation. I think it was Iain Rice who wrote that British outline modellers built models of railway stations while American modellers build model railroads and focus more on prototypical operation than exhibiting layouts.

 

This seem to hold true regardless of whether the layout is built in the UK, Australasia or the United States, there is also some crossover Patrick's South Waterford layout, Castle Rackrent Drew Donaldson's and Sam Carse's County Donegal are/were models of railways designed for the enjoyment of the operator rather than the public at an exhibition.

 

Its possible to build an exhibition layout for prototypical operation that will keep the general public interested Stoke Summit and Maybank are good but contrasting examples, but would the effort be better spent building a permanent layout that could be operated on a regular basis rather than an occasional exhibition?

 

There is probably a critical mass of modellers in the UK to support specialist exhibitions such as Scaleform, ExpoEM etc.Richies hypotechical prototypically operated fine scale model of Askeaton would probably win an award and be published in Model Railway Journal but put the average punter to sleep.

 

I am not sure if there is a critical mass of Irish modellers to support a weekend NMRA style convention in Dublin or Belfast with trade stands, clinics, and layout tours as opposed to conventional exhibition.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Mayner

[Horsetan]

What was the answer to your Longford shunting puzzle in the end, John?

[jhb171achill]

I remember years ago at Whitehead (and some readers of this will have current experience both there and at Downpatrick), the convoluted puzzles which arose in order to get something at the far end of a siding out, and shunted somewhere else, with inadequate headshunt room.

 

Nightmare.

 

It's not always as simple as it looks, though practice makes perfect.....

[josefstadt]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]21870[/ATTACH]

 

How about:

 

1. Uncouple from coaches and move locomotive towards Dromod stopping clear of points.

2. Run back through loop to the Mostrim end of station and stop clear of points.

3. Move forward into the gantry road and couple up to liner.

4. Pull liner out of yard to the Mostrim end of station and stop clear of points.

5. Push liner back into the loop.

6. Uncouple from liner and run to the Mostrim end of station and stop clear of points.

7. Move forward into the main platform road and couple to the coaches.

8. Pull coaches forward to the Mostrim end of station and stop clear of points.

9. Push coaches back into the gantry road.

10. Uncouple from coaches and move locomotive to the Mostrim end of station and stop clear of points.

11. Run back into the loop and couple to liner and await departure to Dublin.

[Horsetan]

That's knocked four moves off mine.

[Mayner]

What was the answer to your Longford shunting puzzle in the end, John?

 

 

1. Propel Commuter towards Mostrim clearing east end points

 

 

2. Pull Commuter onto Gantry road clearing trap points.

3. Uncouple loco from Commuter and buffer up and couple to Liner.

There seemed to be enough room on the gantry road for the Liner (8-10 42'9 flats) and the commuter

4. Propel Liner towards Dromad clearing west end points.

5. Pull Liner into Loop.

 

The shunt had to be carried out quickly to avoid delaying the UP and Down evening Sligo passenger trains which were normally scheduled to cross at Mostrim, delaying the Up Sligo would also have a potential knock on effect on the running of the down Sligo Liner and ESSO Oil train.

 

I don't remember if the Up Sligo ran through when the shunting was taking place in the yard or when the Liner was staged in the loop. As far as I recall Longford had Outer Home and Advanced starter signals which would have allowed the shunts to take place on the main line if a train was in section from Dromad or Mostrim. otherwise the up passenger would have had to wait at Dromad until the main line was clear at least up to the home signal and a safety overlap

Edited December 26, 2015 by Mayner