DiveController Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 The more I read threads like this one and the more old pics of A and C classes I see, the more I sort of half wish MM were releasing an A class in the next 12 months rather than the 121. For anybody over 50 it was the most iconic and numerous loco to haul Irish trains from the mid 50s right through the 80s and at one time the backbone of the CIE era. I'm guessing some manufacturer might well produce it in the future! It would be as well supported as the 121 based on the previous poll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 Just an update on the headlights thing. Here we can see two pictures of an "A" in green. If anyone ever makes these locos RTR (no rumours, please!), they'd need to include the headlights only with supertrain and later liveries. It was the same with the "C"s, and same in "black" and "black with yellow end" days; "C" class modellers alert.... And on the subject of.... these beasts never had the big double headlights at all, in any livery: 121s always had the large headlights - in fact they were the first locos to carry them, a standard American design. The success of these led to their introduction on all subsequent locos. Initially these matched the body colour - grey with grey livery, black with B'n'T livery, but once "supertrain" livery appeared, they were to be painted white and remain that way into IE livery times, until withdrawal. But BEWARE, O Pilgrim. This is where eyewitness accounts of liveries will always set aside completely discussions about how things look different in photos, therefore there must have been loads of different shades of this, that and the other, blah blah blah..... While everything in "supertrain" livery had WHITE headlights, sometimes dirt / weathering made them look different in photos. I've often quoted the common (and to an oul fogey like me, quite irritating) proliferation of black ironwork on wagons, when the reality was it was rust showing black in an old photo! Here, we see two "A"s, both with white lamps. But one is so dirtied that in a photo it almost looks the same black as the cab it's attached to. Related: "The GNR just went down to the local paint shop to get blue paint, so the were many shades of blue on GNR locos" "There were myriad shades of CIE green" "There were myriad shades of wagon grey" "There were myriad shades of CIE / IE orange/tan" All incorrect. All wrong. Some defined variations at certain times (with the exception of the always consistent GNR blue) but not myriads. Not a haphazard difference from one item thus painted to the next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR 800 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 All the right way up? Did you figure out the secret John? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 Yes. I threatened my iPad with a run in a 29000. It worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR 800 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Yes. I threatened my iPad with a run in a 29000. It worked. Ahh..I just pointed a shotgun at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinner75 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 One day, maybe. Plenty to focus on first like our current projects and whatever comes up in the meantime. And sure MM may surprise us yet. I personally can't wait to see the 121s myself. They'll go well either in pairs, or in a mixed pair with MM 141/181 - or even single! Should sell like hotcakes. Not that a 201/001 class wouldn't either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 Gorey, 1989. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 See if this works the right way up.... Ah well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR 800 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 You over threatened it didn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 It was fine till you commented, Harry! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR 800 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 John,even a 29000(the horror) won't set it right. The only way to do it is to crop your images! I guarantee it will work. I will send money to you for a pint if it doesn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Yes. I threatened my iPad with a run in a 29000. It worked. At least a 29k is honest about being nothing more than bus tin on roller skates, but if I see another picture of a boring 22k pretending to be an intercity train I'll risk expelling my last meal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 At least a 29k is honest about being nothing more than bus tin on roller skates, but if I see another picture of a boring 22k pretending to be an intercity train I'll risk expelling my last meal. True!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josefstadt Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weshty Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 And there was me thinking it was Gort.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveController Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) Just an update on the headlights thing. grey with grey livery, black with B'n'T livery, .... While everything in "supertrain" livery had WHITE headlights, sometimes dirt / weathering made them look different in photos. Here, we see two "A"s, both with white lamps. But one is so dirtied that in a photo it looks black When you look at this photograph the headlight is selectively blackened relative to any other part of the upper cab. You can see from multiple photos the patterning of soot and dirt on the lamp but just as there are black and silver 071s with orange doors, and IR logos on Supertrain livery, one other possibility might be that the headlight has been replaced by a spare, in black, from the preceding livery. Lovely shots!! Green has not been my favorite livery in the past but it is growing on me:-bd Edited March 24, 2016 by DiveController Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbonnet Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 At least a 29k is honest about being nothing more than bus tin on roller skates, but if I see another picture of a boring 22k pretending to be an intercity train I'll risk expelling my last meal. 22248 by franburke, on Flickr Sorry Noel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Aaaarrrrrghhh! I'm on an ICR right now..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Sorry Noel... Sorry Fran PS: Btw, your original pic was a nice one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 That's the one I was on back from Caaark tonight..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR 800 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 That's the one I was on back from Caaark tonight..... I think everyone who survived the ICRs should be given the card for a good psychiatrist . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 When you look at this photograph the headlight is selectively blackened relative to any other part of the upper cab. You can see from multiple photos the patterning of soot and dirt on the lamp but just as there are black and silver 071 with orange doors, and IR logos on Supertrain livery, one other possibility might be that the headlight has been replaced by a spare, in black, from the preceding livery.Lovely shots!! Green has not been my favorite livery in the past but it is growing on me:-bd That's quite possible indeed, Dive - I hadn't thought of that. However, also, they did tend to get very dirty! The green livery - like all single-colour liveries - tended to look dull if worn or weathered. After almost twenty years of all-encompassing green or grey, the new black'n'tan livery looked very bright, modern and dynamic when new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSGSV Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 A point of interest is that the circular porthole window at the No.2 end on the right-hand side, which was there in C class days, is blanked off on both locomotives. On the other hand, locomotives which were re-engined with GM engines retained this window. Did the window re-appear on 233 and 234 when they were fitted with GM engines? Great question. I found a photo of 233 and the porthole was still missing. I haven't tracked down a suitable photo of 234/NIR 109 yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 The NIR ones all had the headlights, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josefstadt Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Great question. I found a photo of 233 and the porthole was still missing. I haven't tracked down a suitable photo of 234/NIR 109 yet. Love to see that photo if possible. Barry Carse's book has a photo of NIR 109, but it's from the wrong side! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josefstadt Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 The NIR ones all had the headlights, I think. I think you are right JHB. All the B201 class locos were fitted with headlights when they were re-engined with GM power plants, including 233 and 234. So all the NIR 104 class would have had headlights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSGSV Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Love to see that photo if possible. Barry Carse's book has a photo of NIR 109, but it's from the wrong side! You can buy a copy if you wish! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272158919173?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT#ht_1417wt_1037 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josefstadt Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Thanks for that K. So 233 never got the window back. I suppose we can assume that 234 didn't either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawfin Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 I think C231 was the only C never to carry silver. 232, 233, and 234 all did I'm quite sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 Could well be, Jawfin - I didn't know that (or it had never occurred to me), but given the dates these went into traffic, very possible indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSGSV Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 I think C231 was the only C never to carry silver. 232, 233, and 234 all did I'm quite sure. I don't believe 234 ever had silver, being green from new, then black, but if there's evidence of silver, I'd be interested to see it. On an "A" class matter, this model has turned up at DCDR. Can anyone shed any light? https://www.facebook.com/IrishTractionGroup#!/IrishTractionGroup/posts/941228345966618 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 A46 was the only "A", and apart from the B113 and "D" class, the only diesel locomotive ever to carry the older darker green - a strange throwback for a year or two between its silver and black paint-coats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share Posted April 1, 2016 From a new book now being worked on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josefstadt Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 From a new book now being worked on. [ATTACH=CONFIG]23643[/ATTACH] Looks like it will be a 'must have' book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share Posted April 1, 2016 Hopefully, josefstadt! After two colour albums concentrating on black'n'tan, it's time silver and green and narrow gauge (plus a few quirky things) got an album - along with steam. And when that's done, there'll be a fourth and final in the "album" series; basic outline currently worked out. I've some real oddball stuff for that! Meantime, for reading instead of pictures, "Rails Through Connemara" is almost ready to go to, and is agreed with, the publisher. That'll keep me of the streets for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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