Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) I've moved this conversation from the Murphy Models 201 thread as it had brought that discussion completely off topic. Garfieldsghost Class 201 £106 from Modelfair It begs the question when a retailer can drop the price like this from a RRP of £145 and still make a profit. Modelfair is the best price in the Uk and Seamus Graham's here in Ireland maybe its time for the rest of the retailers to step up to the mark as these 2 retailers have when it comes to pricing Edited July 10, 2012 by Garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Herbie Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Simple Anthony Modelfair will have decided to cut ribbons out of it to get cash flow in. Other english box shifters will do the same they set something with a shelf life then wipe out the price to clear stock. They only take very small amounts of stock to start with so its not a big hit to them even if at times a run as a loss leader. Your question is understandable but highly simplistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 Simple Anthony Modelfair will have decided to cut ribbons out of it to get cash flow in. Other english box shifters will do the same they set something with a shelf life then wipe out the price to clear stock. They only take very small amounts of stock to start with so its not a big hit to them even if at times a run as a loss leader. Your question is understandable but highly simplistic. I understand what you are saying but I wouldn't have put Seamus Graham down as a box shifter and even he can drop the price. I wouldn't say Seamus takes a small amount of stock or gives it a shelf life. If he can do it why can't the rest of the shops. I would have thought in business a high turn over with a profit would be the way to go other than a lot of shelves full of stock and very little sales due to a high RRP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirley Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Just to add fuel to the fire DC Kits are selling 141/181's @ £80 http://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/shop/kits_modelling/irish_railways_inc_murphy_models_rtr_kits_transfers/index-2.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIRCLASS80 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I am amazed at the number of model shops in the UK that must be selling Irish items at a loss just to keep us happy and then restock with the next Irish item released! On a separate note Bachmann UK once announced that all retailers paid the same cost price no matter what so does this mean that Hattons and co sell at a loss. We cannot expect our small model shops to have the same cheap prices but when shops in England can sell Irish 201's for between £40 to £20 cheap than shops on these shores then in these days when people are watching every penny they spend things will gradually get worse for our shops here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbonnet Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I am amazed at the number of model shops in the UK that must be selling Irish items at a loss just to keep us happy and then restock with the next Irish item released! On a separate note Bachmann UK once announced that all retailers paid the same cost price no matter what so does this mean that Hattons and co sell at a loss. We cannot expect our small model shops to have the same cheap prices but when shops in England can sell Irish 201's for between £40 to £20 cheap than shops on these shores then in these days when people are watching every penny they spend things will gradually get worse for our shops here. Maybe they aren't selling at a loss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aclass007 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Maybe they aren't selling at a loss... My thoughts too.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 My thoughts too.............. My thoughts also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I would presume the point is that the box shifters have a model more like tesco. Stack em high and make up on volume. The local shops are more like traditional shops - experts in their fields, providing a lot of value added services and participating in events and supporting the community. The smaller scale model means you need to make margin on everything you sell and can't afford to simply sell at loss or cost + a point to clear shelves. This argument has appeared a few times and while not seeking to defend the local shops, it's enough to say I highly value the services and expertise they provide and have never bought anything from a box shifter for that reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirley Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I would presume the point is that the box shifters have a model more like tesco. Stack em high and make up on volume. The local shops are more like traditional shops - experts in their fields, providing a lot of value added services and participating in events and supporting the community. The smaller scale model means you need to make margin on everything you sell and can't afford to simply sell at loss or cost + a point to clear shelves. This argument has appeared a few times and while not seeking to defend the local shops, it's enough to say I highly value the services and expertise they provide and have never bought anything from a box shifter for that reason. While I would use major retailers to buy certain bulk items, I would still use my local supplier as I value having a local model shop and would wish to support the service they can give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Exactly Kirley. Would hattons have given us the autoballasters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) Would hattons have given us the autoballasters? If someone commissioned them with Hatton's and put the money up yes they probably would as they have commissioned models in the past for the UK market and to be fair if they did commission them you could bet they would be cheaper. I don't understand why you slag of the box shifters the amount of guys on this forum who buy from box shifters and on line shops in the UK is unreal. Its simple in these hard times the box shifters are the only way a lot of people can afford to buy Irish items. As local shops won't step up to the mark and insist on ripping us of. As I said before Graham's is the only local shop that is trying to match these prices the rest of them ain't interested you only have to look at their prices to tell you that. I will put it like this for you there are several clubs and people who it is cheaper for them to save up book a cheap Easy jet/Ryan air flight to Liverpool travel over buy what they want and come back on the same day and it still wouldn't cost as much as their local shop. I have been to both Hatton's and Rails of Sheffield in person and I can tell you the service and expertise they provide is second to none and on the occasions I was there I have meet other modellers from North and South of the border. As I said I won't hear of the like's of Hattons and Rails of Sheffield getting slagged of in my view its just a pity their ain't more like them. Edited July 9, 2012 by Anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 As I said to someone today, if I set up a shop selling model railway stuff I'd be stacking the shelves high with HO gauge PECO track. Why? Because I know I'd make money on it. I'd probably get in limited stock of Irish model and use pre orders to try to match price to within €5.00 of the box shifters. When I made enough money I would have no issue becoming a box shifter myself - It is the way to do things these days. Give me some cash to get stock and I can have an online model shop set up within a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbonnet Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I must agree with Anthony, I've been to Hattons too and they are a lovely bunch of lads. They have knowledge too and are more than happy to help you out. Times are tough for many people and going to such stores is the only way of getting Irish items. Marks recently put their Supertrains 141s up to around €130. That's borderline scandalous! I know businesses are feeling the pinch but so too are us customers. If they do no address this and try to be more competitive then they'll lose out big time. At least Seamus has done a lot to give us great prices and service, and does some cracking sales. My Hornby A3 for less than 100 Euro is testament to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 I must agree with Anthony, I've been to Hattons too and they are a lovely bunch of lads. They have knowledge too and are more than happy to help you out. Times are tough for many people and going to such stores is the only way of getting Irish items. Marks recently put their Supertrains 141s up to around €130. That's borderline scandalous! I know businesses are feeling the pinch but so too are us customers. If they do no address this and try to be more competitive then they'll lose out big time. At least Seamus has done a lot to give us great prices and service, and does some cracking sales. My Hornby A3 for less than 100 Euro is testament to that. Well said mate I'm glad I'm not the only one to see this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I'm not knocking the big uk lads but there is not a snowballs chance in hell they would have taken the risk on autoballasters or spent time working on sound chips for Irish stock or had 150s repainted. The Irish lads did put up the cash for the commission and are to be commended. Where the price with postage is comparable I would always recommend supporting local. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 Were the Sound decoders not worked on and produced by Mr Sound Guy in the UK and sold through a local outlet here. When it comes to box shifters V local when you guys (or more than likely your Missus;)) do your weekly house shop do you go to the local corner shop and pay their high prices or do you go to the big pallet/box shifters like Dunnes/Tesco etc etc I know what the answer to that will be and its the same when it comes to our hobby. A lot of us would like to support are local hobby shops but we can't because they price themselves out of the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Maybe I'm wierd as I shop In the local grocer and butcher I might be in the minority but I don't like what chains like Dunnes or tesco do to communities by ripping out the heart of a town. My point is that we should do all we can to support and buy local. When you look at the commissions like the 2700 or ballasted, or the dapol range marks do, or the modelshopbelfast sound decoders, or the expertise, advice and participation in local events- where you can, why would you not support local? If we had no local shops, would we be happy buying uk stock from the big lads in the uk to paint ourselves? As far as I'm concerned, any time I've put an order to the local lads, they've matched or beat the box shifters prices for what I needed. Add to that what they give back to the community and it's a done deal for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 I don't like what chains like Dunnes or tesco do to communities by ripping out the heart of a town. What about all the jobs these shops provide for those communities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 That's not the point we are discussing. If the goal Is the cheapest possible price and ignoring the value add or commissions or expertise of local providers, then we have to be happy if they cease to exist. Then we also have to be happy when there is no one to commission Irish stock or develop new lines or attend the shows. For me it's all about value not price ( though as I've said I've never had a price issue for anything I've needed and I've spent thousands in the last year alone ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbonnet Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I don't think we're knocking the value of having local shops Bos, but stating that some of their prices are taking the wee wee. While I totally understand that they cannot wholly match the likes of Hattons on price, the difference in the prices are in some cases totally out of sync to the point where cynicism creeps in. To that end I think they're doing more damage to themselves in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I agree. My only point is to give them a fair run rather than the 'box shifter only' view. If they lose on price that's fine. But where they don't they should deserve our support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbonnet Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I agree. My only point is to give them a fair run rather than the 'box shifter only' view. If they lose on price that's fine. But where they don't they should deserve our support And they get it from me. If there isn't much difference I'll buy local, and I do source all my Irish stuff locally, but I can understand in these tough times people going for better value from abroad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 And they get it from me. If there isn't much difference I'll buy local, and I do source all my Irish stuff locally, but I can understand in these tough times people going for better value from abroad. I agree with you Warbonnet,I'll buy local if the price is near enough the same but if I can save £20 or so by shopping round then I will.The money I save then can go towards other railway items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'll buy local if the price is near enough the same but if I can save £20 or so by shopping round then I will.The money I save then can go towards other railway items. Exactly Northman well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) For me it's all about value not price ( though as I've said I've never had a price issue for anything I've needed and I've spent thousands in the last year alone ) Unfortunately Stephen for the rest of us it is about price a lot of us can't afford to spend thousands and what money we do spend we need to get the best value for money we can and if that is a box shifter well then that is where we have to go. Edited July 10, 2012 by Anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 That's my whole point Anthony. Where there is little or nothing in the difference, make the effort to support local that's all I'm saying. Anytime I've asked, a local guy will match or beat the uk prices once you factor the (high) exchange rate and postage. As we saw already in this thread Seamus is cheaper than model fair for the 201s. And that's before you ask for a discount I am sure you would prefer work and recommendations than having lads on here raving about the uk respray guys for the sake of maybe saving a fiver? The Irish modeling community is a tiny one. A small fraction the size of even a subset of the UK scene. We should where possible support the components on our community that make it work and try to sustain and grow that expertise. This forum is an effort in doing just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirley Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 That's my whole point Anthony. Where there is little or nothing in the difference, make the effort to support local that's all I'm saying. Anytime I've asked, a local guy will match or beat the uk prices once you factor the (high) exchange rate and postage. As we saw already in this thread Seamus is cheaper than model fair for the 201s. And that's before you ask for a discount I am sure you would prefer work and recommendations than having lads on here raving about the uk respray guys for the sake of maybe saving a fiver? The Irish modeling community is a tiny one. A small fraction the size of even a subset of the UK scene. We should where possible support the components on our community that make it work and try to sustain and grow that expertise. This forum is an effort in doing just that. Amen to all that -maybe this thread has run its course? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarabuses Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Amen to all that -maybe this thread has run its course? It seems a good place to end with everyone finally in agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weshty Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Can I start it again by adding; I build a 00 model 8100 DART and trying to get going in the market! This is a hand build item in my workshop and takes me 4 to 5 days to complete a two coach Dart after I have batch manufactured the fiddley parts. My price at the moment is €400.00, which shocks everyone. I would be interested if any of you have the time to view the web site http://www.ecmtrains.com and return comments Thanks Murrayec, that is truly a fine model. The only comment I would make is that fully transparent windows would really make it amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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