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Glover's workbench

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Thanks Popeye.

The roofs are scratch built, from plastic. I used the method described by Geoff Kent in the Model Railway Journal number 228. Roofs, in my experience, are one of the most difficult items to model. Irish coaches were generally wider than those in Britain, so pre-formed roofs designed for British stock are not really suitable for Irish coaches. Geoff Kents method is a bit complicated and rewards practice. I'm working on another project at the moment and will, if I remember in the heat of battle, take a few snaps of the method but we're a few weeks away from that stage.

There are no rainstrips on the roof. These are noticeably absent from many GNR coaches. I'm looking at a high level photo taken in 1963 which shows five GNR coaches around Newry; only one appears to have rainstrips. Possibly they were not replaced when coaches were re-roofed. Saves a job anyway!

Cheers,

Glover

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When the GNR Board was disbanded in 1958, the UTA immediately set about repainting the more modern, flush sided coaches into their green livery. Older wooden bodied coaches were not a priority and thus GNR coaches in their old varnished teak livery could still be seen in UTA service in 1963. There are a number of photos to support this.

Therefore.......

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This is most certainly a first for me.

The varnished wood livery was achieved thanks to a piece on RMweb by Mike Trice. Google 'painting LNER model coaches' or something similar.

Essentially, apply a white primer and then a base coat of cheap acrylic paint in a colour like orange or yellow. Then a mix of burnt umber (artists oil) and something called Liquin Original, available in art supply shops. Apply this mix with Golden Taklon brushes. Finally, varnish to taste. 

It's actually as simple as that and I have to say that I am well pleased with the end result.

 

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I took some photos outdoors as it shows the livery to good effect. 

The K8 open third was numbered 326 , by the UTA, on the green side (built 1917, withdrawn 1967). Previously it was numbered 357 by the GNR.

On the teak side, the UTA number is 320 (GNR number 18). This was withdrawn in October 1963 (built 1915) and therefore it is reasonable to assume that it never received UTA green.

I have used the UTA Red Hand logos on the teak side.

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The L9 ( brake/third) was given the UTA number 466 on the teak side and 464 on the green side. 

I can now run them as a both teak or both green combination or a mix, which might be more typical. Or I could if I had an appropriate loco........ A long term project.

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Back in April of this year, I wrote about my conversion of the old Hornby LMS Stanier coaches into a 1953 build CIE brake/standard. I noted that I wasn't happy with the roof profile. These coache roofs were almost flat across most of their width but then turned sharply downwards on each side; I'm sure there's a proper geometric term for such curves.

I had another go, using the same Geoff Kent method but with the benefit of practice, I think it has turned out better. I also renewed the corridor connectors and fixed a de-railing issue . Before and after photos below.

Now, back to the hammering and banging on the workbench as I work on my Q4 project.

Cheers,

Glover

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I note that the corridor connector is a bit askew in the second ('after') photo; it's fine when it's buffered up to other stock.

Glover

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Brilliant, brilliant stuff!

The teak coaches look just right, as I recall them. A point of detail: while the UTA put red hand roundels on a few railcars still in GNR navy and cream, older wooden coaches would only get the UTA logo if painted green.

On this scale, though the UTA logo looks a bit overscale, and could at a distance look like a faded GNR crest!

Excellent work as always.

I have struggled to think of a reason to bring something UTA to my layout, based at the same period - but, while the location is fictitious, it's somewhere in the south - think Mallow-Waterford or South Kerry area. Maybe a visiting pigeon special!

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On 12/29/2016 at 8:38 PM, Glover said:

That seemed to work!

 

The extract from the Railway Modeller was the first in a series which achieved near legendary status. The first article appeared in August 1966. It dealt with the conversion of the Triang Hornby GWR clear storey coach into Southern Railway ( England) look alikes.

Given the similarity to Irish coaches, I resolved to follow the plans.

Only took me 50 years!

 

However, I went a little further; about 6 feet......

 

The original plan was for LBSCR 54 foot coaches but the similar GWSR/GSR coaches were 60 footers.

Essentially you cut the passenger sections from two GWR brake 3rds and join them together.

However, I decided to widen them somewhat, to replicate the wider dimensions of Irish stock.

That involved some rather agricultural cutting of the sides away from the original chassis.

I also added some height to the coach using Evergreen strip.image.jpg

I scratch built new ends although the roof is BR Mk1.

Bogies are Bachmann LMS.

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Hi Glover just found your workshop thread so starting at the beginning with the above coach, you mentioned that you added some evergreen strip to the body was that at the top or the bottom of the sides, what size was it if you can recall? if you can't what was is the new side height of the body shell?

I have just come into the ownership of about 6 or 7 of these coaches (I was going to build some Isle of Man 3ft gauge style coaches from them until i saw you Irish Broad Gauge efforts).

Finally for now what is the width you have built it to?

regards

Colin

Edited by Colin R

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Hi Colin,

Arrrgh!! I had to go out to the shed to measure it; its 2 degrees here at the moment!  But, many thanks for taking an interest in my efforts. 

Height is almost 28mm. I suspect I used something like 2mm Evergreen strip; I didn't keep a specific note . It was added to the top of the bodyside.

Width is only slightly wider than the original Tri-ang/Hornby but I now generally build to 38mm width. Yes it does look more than a bit narrow gauge when viewed end on but certainly on my layout, virtually all views are side on.

To my mind, the advantage of building to, more or less, the full Irish width is that it gives you a more correct roof profile.

It does require some brutal work with a hacksaw to reduce these coaches to body sides only, which is really the only part of the originals I used.

Can I apologise in advance if you have other questions ( and please ask away) but I'll be off-air for the next few days , so I may be somewhat tardy in responding.

Meantime, give it a go!

Cheers,

Glover

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Lots of stuff on here Glover, and thanks for the reply which is more that just useful. I am drifting toward using Downpartick in some form or other, as it has everything I like in a country terminus.

I think I will end up only using the track plan and building all the railway buildings to a more standard Irish outlook (stone effect plasticard), but that is all for the future.

Colin

 

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The project of building five or six brake/passenger coaches to run through Pettigo (on the Bundoran branch) continues.

What the GNR described as a J4 brake-trio (1st, 2nd and 3rd class) were a very popular coach on the Irish North Western lines. An article in New Irish Lines, November 2016, lists five of them taken over by the UTA on the disbandment of the GNR. Given that stock was divided 50:50 between the UTA and CIE, it is reasonable to suppose that CIE received five.

They were built between approx 1916 and 1920. The UTA withdrew the last of theirs in 1967.

Worsley Works list them on their web site but we're not available when I checked.

Therefore, the only option was to scratch build..........easy to say!

I've only scratch built one coach in my modelling lifetime and that was a GNR steel coach. It was also many years ago.

Anyway, a photo; I'll follow up with some notes that might be of interest.

Cheers,

Glover

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I had no proper drawing to work from, just some basic notes from Coakhams 'Irish Broad Gauge Carriages'. I did copy some measurements, (window sizes, panel widths etc), from the L9 and K8 coaches which I had previously built from Worsley Works parts. Working out the interior layout was a bit of a puzzle; there were WCs for each class.

The basic build followed Geoff Kents series in the Model Railway Journal of some years ago. Basic material is 20thou plastic. 

It is a fairly tedious process marking out the plastic and then cutting. I used thin Evergreen plastic strips to reproduce the panelling.

 

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I normally use Bachmann LMS bogies on my GNR coaches but the older wooden bodied coaches use a shorter wheelbase one, built by the Fox company.

Closest I could find to these were Fox bogies made by MJT/Dart Castings. You are supposed to solder these together........plastic and super glue is your only man! I have to say that while they have turned out OK, they are somewhat fiddly to assemble and are also quite an expensive option compared to the Bachmann RTR option.

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I tried a new technique to achieve the UTA lining: Pocca fine lining ink pens (available in art supply shops).

I rate this as a success ; much easier to apply than paint.  

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The interiors are scratch built from plastic. 

First class seats are painted in a sort of pink colour, 2nd are blue while 3rd are green. There is also a difference in the overall ornamentation of the seating woodwork. This is all from my imagination but I think consistent with how these things were done in days gone by.

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As per my usual practice, I painted the other side of the coach in an alternative livery; GNR varnished wood in this case. Various photos confirm that the UTA prioritised painting more modern steel bodied GNR coaches into their green livery while older wooden bodied stock soldiered on in GNR colours up to the early 1960s. 

When I wrote about my L9 and K8 builds last year, JHB offered praise but also noted that the UTA symbols were never applied to these unpainted coaches. I didn't get a chance at the time to acknowledge JHBs comments; we were all a bit over run with the excitement of IRMs announcement of the A class Metro-Vicks!

I would not dare to contradict such an eminent authority as JHB but photos by Des Fitzgerald taken on the Warrenpoint branch appear to support the idea that they did carry a symbol but which one........could it have been the GNR(B) roundal? The photos are all taken from oblique angles so it is not possible to be sure. So, I left them off but I have applied 'UT' lettering to the ends on the GNR painted sides. This appears to have been a standard feature in the early post GNR stock taken over by the UTA. Again I've used a Pocca pen to achieve this.

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That's it for the moment. I'm not sure what's next, although I'm researching early/mid 1950s CIE built coaches, those post-Bredin/pre-laminates distinctively 'boxy' coaches.

Scratchbuilding coaches, especially older wooden bodied ones is hard work but I think worth the effort.

One final photo for GNR fans: an L9, K8 and J4 forming a short GNR train. Happy days!

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Excellent work and love the interiors. Can only agree that scratch, or even kit building coaches is a lot of work and not just because you usually want several of them. It is easy to think it is just sides roof and bogies, but all the details add up, especially stuff like handles, hinges and so on.

 Well worth it though and your paintwork provides a lovely finish.

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I have to say, Glover, I remain bowled over by your carriages. They absolutely exude atmosphere like few others.

You got me curious about Des’ photos taken round Warrenpoint, so I checked a few of his pics, and consulted a few old copies of IRN. All GNR crests.

The remaining GNR wooden carriages were never meant to have been kept long-term by either CIE (who got rid of theirs pretty quickly as they were building laminates) or the UTA - who wanted to obliterate railways entirely.

The stencilling - an essential feature of any GNR-area layout 1959-mid 60s..... I think you’re the first person I’ve seen applying this to models - congratulations on your eye for detail!

UTA roundels were applied to newer ex-GNR stock (e.g. BUT railcars) before a repaint for one reason only - being comparatively recently newly painted, it was deemed a waste of money to repaint fully there and then. This didn’t apply to older stock, so they either repainted in full at an appropriate time, or left it if the vehicle was unlikely to be retained long term.

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Excellent Glover

All looks great. Love the yellow button detail on the pink cushions- now that's rivet counting😀

Eoin

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Thank you gentlemen.

To Eoin's comment, the finish on the 1st class seats, complete with yellow buttons, was inspired by watching some Antiques Roadshow programme which featured an Edwardian armchair. I imagine that the railway company's were inspired by the fashions of the time when fitting out their coaches, especially 1st class.

Of course, all of this becomes invisible as soon as you put the roof on; is this the road to madness?!

Cheers,

Glover

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38 minutes ago, Glover said:

Thank you gentlemen.

To Eoin's comment, the finish on the 1st class seats, complete with yellow buttons, was inspired by watching some Antiques Roadshow programme which featured an Edwardian armchair. I imagine that the railway company's were inspired by the fashions of the time when fitting out their coaches, especially 1st class.

Of course, all of this becomes invisible as soon as you put the roof on; is this the road to madness?!

Cheers,

Glover

Exactly. First class upholstery tended to be more ornate, often with flowery patterns or some sort of interwoven leaves pattern. The GSWR and GNR both used patterns like this. Second class tended to be plain and of course initially third class was bare boards, eventually sparse plain upholstery. Even as late as AEC railcar days, I remember the quite intricate leafy patterns in the first class in these - it was a light greenish-grey pattern, I think.

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