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murrayec

Inchicore Class J10 Conversion From LNER J72

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Posted (edited)

Hi

 

With the need for a small steam loco to run on Closetmodeller's Greystones Layout to pull a RPSI or IRRS type excursion train, we looked for an easy and inexpensive conversion. I had previously earmarked the Jinty 0-6-0 as a relative easy conversion to an Irish type tank loco- the Inchicore Class J10 or a J11. At the Wexford Show a Mainline Jinty was offered for €10.00, so CM splashed out and our 0-6-0 Tank Loco was secured and travelled off to the workshops.

 

J10C-01 IMAG2902.jpg

 

J10C-02 IMAG2904.jpg

 

J10C-03 IMAG2901.jpg

 

This will be its story.....

 

The J10 is easier to do as its cab needs very little work, the main work is in-around the front splashers and snadboxes, most of the other bits are pretty close. So with that and some other minor fettling- handrails, coal bunker, valance & front steps, valves, and roof top whistles, its going to be a J10

 

The tanks are little a bit short, but not sure yet if I'll go at that!

 

The plan is worked out, this I did by scanning the loco side and setting up a drawing to have a pattern to work to for sizing the bits and working out what gets in the way!

 

J10C-05 DWG-00.jpg

 

According to Mr Clements 5 of these were built for shunting around North Wall Goods Yard, a photo exists of 617 (Pioneer) taken in 1938 at Broadstone, so 617 it will be......

 

J10C-04 IMAG2903.jpg

 

Eoin

Edited by murrayec

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When repainting, Eoin, for max effect I would paint the connecting rods and wheel rims great as well as the body.

 

The numberplates look excellent. All over grey like the body, but rims and numerals picked out in light yellow / cream.....

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Posted (edited)

Hi jhb

 

Thanks

 

Yes grey it will be, including rims n rods...

 

The photo shows bright colour to the number plate! was this polished brass with black background?

 

Eoin

 

Edit; I see you said light yellow, oops

Edited by murrayec

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Posted (edited)

The Mainline J72 was the nearest thing to an "Official" RTR conversion for the small Midland E Class 0-6-0 tanks or CIE J26 Class. The late Alec Phillips a very talented modeller pioneered the conversion of the J72 into an E Class after struggling to get the early TMD E Class to run. Alec built excellent scratch built models of a DART & a cement bubble in OO & B121 & B141 Class in O Gauge.

 

The J10s or MGWR P Class were built for heavy shunting at the North Wall & banking trains to Liffey Junction , basically a tank version of the Midland Standard Goods.

 

Class J10 - 615 - M&GWR Class P 0-6-0T - built 1880 by Broadstone Works as M&GWR No.101 GIANT - 1902 rebuilt with Belpaire boiler, 1925 to GSR as No.615, 1932 rebuilt with Belpaire boiler, 1939 rebuilt with round top boiler, 1945 to CIE - withdrawn 1951.

 

The J11 was a GSWR design and tank engine version of the J15 or 101 Class did similar work on the GSWR system and around Cork.

 

The J11s had slightly rounded edges to the tank tops and an archaic looking cab roof seemingly folded from one piece of iron, nice modelling challenge.

Class J11 - 219 - GS&WR Class 207 0-6-0T, built 1901 by Inchicore Works - 1925 to GSR, 1945 to CIE - withdrawn 1955 - seen here at Limerick in 1955.

Edited by Mayner

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The late Alec Phillips a very talented modeller.........built excellent scratch built models of a...........B121 & B141 Class in O Gauge]

 

Now THAT would be a sight to behold!

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Eoin, are you aware, New Irish Lines gave away, with their magazine, drawings from the GSR Register. Both J10, J11 and J26 (mentioned by John)are included? The wheel base on a J10 is shown as 14' 11" and I think the Jinty's wheel base is 16' so close enough.

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It depends on what you class as a Jinty. The name Jinty normally refers to the LMS Fowler 3F, which has a wheelbase of 16ft 6ins. The loco in this post, referred to as a Jinty, is in fact an LNER J72, which has a wheelbase of 13ft 8in.

 

The Bachmann 3F Jinty wheelbase is 66mm, which is an exact scale 16ft 6ins. I have no idea whether the Mainline J72 wheelbase is correct to scale or not, as I do not have one to measure.

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Eoin, yes, normally a light yellow creamy colour but according to jhb171achill Senior, who spent many Saturdays bumbling about Inchicore in the 1930s, the odd one did have polished numerals and rims, like 186 currently.

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It depends on what you class as a Jinty. The name Jinty normally refers to the LMS Fowler 3F, which has a wheelbase of 16ft 6ins. The loco in this post, referred to as a Jinty, is in fact an LNER J72, which has a wheelbase of 13ft 8in.

 

The Bachmann 3F Jinty wheelbase is 66mm, which is an exact scale 16ft 6ins. I have no idea whether the Mainline J72 wheelbase is correct to scale or not, as I do not have one to measure.

 

I think John was referring to another Class of locomotive not the J10 or J11, "The Mainline J72 was the nearest thing to an "Official" RTR conversion for the small Midland E Class 0-6-0 tanks or CIE J26 Class."

 

I have two Hornby 3F's a new and an old model, both have a 16' wheelbase unless I'm not measuring it correctly, is it from wheel centre to wheel centre?

 

Sorry Eoin for going off your subject.

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I think John was referring to another Class of locomotive not the J10 or J11, "The Mainline J72 was the nearest thing to an "Official" RTR conversion for the small Midland E Class 0-6-0 tanks or CIE J26 Class."

 

I have two Hornby 3F's a new and an old model, both have a 16' wheelbase unless I'm not measuring it correctly, is it from wheel centre to wheel centre?

 

Sorry Eoin for going off your subject.

 

I'm pretty sure the Hornby jinty features a generic 0-6-0 chassis which also went under their old 08 and pannier tank. The Bachmann model of the jinty would have a more accurate wheelbase.

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Posted (edited)

Hi Guys

 

I was a bit confused by John's post, but now it's all straightened out- The Mainline model above was offered to CM as a 'Jinty' when I was asked about making it Irish, a Jinty being a model I looked at before for converting, so I said yes go for it. When scanning it I did think it looked a bit odd but not being up on British stuff I just ploughed ahead and looked more at what its going to be.

 

That said, it will cease to be a 'Jinty' or a 'J72' it's going to be our version of a J10

 

Yes Kirley I have that drawing, interesting to see the front sandboxes are not on the drawing, the 3Fs & 4Fs I do know a bit about, my favourite British locos, I bought plans for a 3.5inch 4F live steam model which is on the list to do before I die.... actually that will be after all the other stuff I'm doing!

 

I collected about 6 Bachmann Jintys and 3 4F to do Irish things with but could not bring myself to the point of chopping them up...

 

Now I'm wandering off...

 

jhb- good to know Senior saw polished plates as I do like a bit of 'Brass' on a loco- 617 will have brass numerals n rim

 

Eoin

Edited by murrayec

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Hi

 

Yes Kirley its from axle to axle

 

The Mainline model is 6'7'' at front and 7'0'' at rear, buffer to buffer is 28'6''

 

Eoin

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Thanks Eoin, looking forward to seeing this conversion.

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Hi Guys

 

 

jhb- good to know Senior saw polished plates as I do like a bit of 'Brass' on a loco- 617 will have brass numerals n rim

 

Eoin

 

Trouble is, whatever metal they were made of polished to a silvery colour!

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Amputation!

 

Out with the scalpel and razor saws after dinner, nothing to difficult except for the coal bunker- a hefty bit of plastic to create the overhang, so that took time as I wanted to keep a nice line on the back. All the plastic bits besides the front sandbox and bunker were heat glued on and popped off very easy, the metal bits were glued with cyano so acetone was popped on and a good yank removed them....

 

J10C-06 IMAG2905.jpg

 

J10C-07 IMAG2909.jpg

 

J10C-08 IMAG2910.jpg

 

J10C-09 IMAG2911.jpg

 

Eoin

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Hi

 

Anyone reading the first few posts may be a bit confused by me referring to the Mainline model as a 'Jinty' - I hope you have worked things out by the time your reading this! Apalogies:)

 

Eoin

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Posted (edited)
Trouble is, whatever metal they were made of polished to a silvery colour!

 

It was probably cast iron polished up, my historian chap tells me they made plates in brass n iron...

 

Eoin

Edited by murrayec

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I can confirm that the loco is not a "Jinty", it is a "J10".

A typical example of Eoin's excellent modelling skills, though I draw the line at his proposal to install a pantograph, he claims it will be needed to boil the electric kettle.

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Posted (edited)

Some progress

 

The body is now all cleaned up and sanded, ready for hole filling and bits to go on. The cab roof overhang was reduced, rain strips were removed, rounded edge formed on the back of the bunker, and moulding seams removed. The moulded dart and number plate were removed from the smoke box door.

J10C-10 IMAG3030.jpg

 

J10C-11 IMAG3031.jpg

 

J10C-12 IMAG3032.jpg

 

I then took a look at the chassis to see if it had implications on the changes to the body shell, one thing stood out- the upstand of the split chassis which houses the motor protrudes into the bunker, but should be able to cover it! A small amount of chassis will have to be removed at rear base to get the rear coupler in, a Kadee 146.

J10C-13 IMAG3037.jpg

 

J10C-14 IMAG3035.jpg

 

To DCC this lump of metal is going to be fun! There is no space between chassis and body shell but I have a plan. It requires a bit of metal to be removed on the top of the chassis between the tanks, there is just about enough room for the DCC chip & wires.

J10C-14 IMAG3040.jpg

 

J10C-15 IMAG3039.jpg

 

The motor will have to be hacked by cutting the brush tabs to isolate them from the chassis- the original screws that hold the brush plate are the contacts between these plates and the chassis, which has to be eliminated.

 

Eoin

Edited by murrayec

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Hi jhb

 

Yes, I picked up a dark gery for this project- Humbrol Matt 67, look it up and let me know what you think. It looked dark in the shop but in the workshop it looks like it may need a bit of black added!

 

Eoin

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Hi jhb

 

Yes, I picked up a dark gery for this project- Humbrol Matt 67, look it up and let me know what you think. It looked dark in the shop but in the workshop it looks like it may need a bit of black added!

 

Eoin

 

 

Edit;- Something went a bit funny with the computer and doubled up!!

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Hi jhb

 

Yes, I picked up a dark gery for this project- Humbrol Matt 67, look it up and let me know what you think. It looked dark in the shop but in the workshop it looks like it may need a bit of black added!

 

Eoin

Edit;- Something went a bit funny with the computer and doubled up!!

 

Eoin, as long as it's the computer you needn't worry, interested to see this work on this model, looking good,

Paul

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Mine did that the other day...... I posted something twice......!

 

The shade shown is black in the pic, though the light can play tricks! Would you have another pic? Excellent work so far....

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Hi jhb

 

The body shell above is still in LNER black livery- not painted yet, I'm waiting until all fixups and bits are on before painting....

 

Here is a snippet of the Humbrol Reference Chart and a photo of the tinlet, its the middle one, the other two are for comparison- light grey and black

 

J10C-16 Humbrol Mat 67-00.jpg

 

What do you reckon?

 

Eoin

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Posted (edited)

Bashed some metal this evening....

 

Split chassis was taken apart to remove the gears, seal up the motor with masking tape and put some packing into the split so that the machine vice would not crush the plastic insulators.

J10C-17 IMAG3042.jpg

 

First I machined out the recess for the Kadee box on the under of the chassis, this was very close to one of the screws so I went into it, through the brass contact and insulator until I could see the threads of the screw and stopped there! It worked, just enough clearance to get the Kadee at the right height.

J10C-18 IMAG3044.jpg

 

J10C-19 IMAG3045.jpg

 

Next was machining out the space for the DCC chip in the top of the chassis, took off 3.5mm.

 

Now you see it

J10C-20 IMAG3047.jpg

 

Now you don't

J10C-21IMAG3049.jpg

 

The Kadee box is fixed to the chassis keeper plate with a counter-sunk screw, just made it! had to sand the box a bit to adjust the level.

J10C-22IMAG3050.jpg

 

and loads of space for chip n wires

J10C-23 IMAG3052.jpg

 

Eoin

Edited by murrayec

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Well done Eoin. Super job for on split chassis, and very neat. They are a nightmare to DCC, and have to be run-in again after reassembly. Your tools to machine the metal chassis is a great help. I gave up on split chassis conversions after doing two of them some years ago, but I wasn't as neat as you have been here. :) On my poor effort, isolating the motor connections from the chassis sides was a real pain, and tapping each side of the chassis for pickups was equally awkward.

 

What method did you use to connect the decoder to the chassis sides?

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Thanks Noel

 

Yes split chassis require a bit more work,

 

The decoder will be connected to two little brass screws that will be tapped into that shiny cut I just made on the top- the wires can be soldered to the screws far easier than to the die-cast metal

 

Eoin

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A bit of body work done today

 

Splashers, sandboxes, coal bunker infill, valance & steps, made in styrene, all just propped in position for the photos. I think the valances will have to go on last and have a bit of brass reinforcing behind the steps!

 

You cant see it in these shots with the glare of the white styrene but the sandboxes have a nice little filler cap on top...

 

J10C-24 IMAG3061.jpg

 

J10C-25 IMAG3063.jpg

 

J10C-26 IMAG3064.jpg

 

J10C-26 IMAG3069.jpg

 

Eoin

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Hi jhb

 

The body shell above is still in LNER black livery- not painted yet, I'm waiting until all fixups and bits are on before painting....

 

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28021[/ATTACH]

 

What do you reckon?

 

Eoin

 

In between the light grey and the middle one, which is almost black.

 

Recent photos of 186 in good daylight will show it up best.

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Thanks guys for comments

 

Ironmongery fabrication this evening...

 

Smoke box door lamp rail, sand box actuator rods, footplate hand rails, and the safety valves. All in .4mm NS wire with some brass n aluminium tube for the valves.

 

J10C-27 IMAG3071.jpg

 

J10C-28 IMAG3072.jpg

 

J10C-29 IMAG3073.jpg

 

Paper strips were used for the detail on the chimney and along the top of the tanks all the way to the back end.

 

J10C-30 IMAG3076.jpg

 

J10C-31 IMAG3077.jpg

 

The safety valves was good fun, the solder on the NS wire broke while test fitting the assembly, I could not re-solder because the tubes making the valve bodies was epoxied and that would have been a mess, I'll silver solder the next time I make one of these. Thats a Kadee coupler spring between the valves.

 

J10C-32 IMAG3079.jpg

 

Eoin

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Damn. That is some fine modelling. Those rivets look good enough to pop.

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I have had one of those sat in a box for how long??? Eoin you have illuminated my path! Just got to finish a J 11 before the weekend!! Ingenious modelling, very clean and tidy just like everything you do.

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