Jump to content
gavino200

70s/80s CIE rolling stock in N-gauge?

Recommended Posts

Hi. I live in the US but I grew up in Dublin. I have an N-scale layout, mostly Japanese trains (Shinkansen etc), but I'd really like to get one of those old orange & black CIE trains from my childhood. I know that they're available in OO and that OO is the preferred gauge in Ireland. However, do any of you know of a supplier or good customizer where I could get these in N-scale.

I know that unpainted loco bodies are available from shapeways. Unfortunately I don't have the skills to do a good paint job.

If I have to, I'll  find a professional modeler to do the painting. Does anyone know a supplier where I can get one of these engines in N-gauge, in any other livery (British Rail?) that I could use as a base for conversion. 

1b089113-6075-41de-b288-4fc9b03a2395.jpg?width=640

and/or this one

Image result for irish cie trains

And these carriages. BTW what are these carriages called?

8224903d-a447-45ff-947a-af144470d54f.jpg?width=640

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Shapeways stuff appears to be 3D printed, or some such similar procedure. With N, errors are magnified times two, as are features which are coarse. Thus, even finishing the body requires some dexterity, and painting is probably worse!

I looked into this myself recently and regrettably decided against - but I'd be interested to see the results of such work elsewhere.

Those carriages are no longer in service. There were just over 40 of them, entering traffic 1963/4 and the last withdrawn within the last ten years. They were known as "Cravens".

Edited by jhb171achill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shapeways are all there is for n, they are tricky, I played around with them a couple of years ago, gave them away in the end. Best to start with the a or c class, the hand rails on the GMs are impossible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is nothing in RTR for Irish N gauge. While Shapeways have bodies finding a suitable chassis and making it fit will present major challenges in respect of the two locos in your photos. A more modern option of a class 201 using a Shapeways body and a Dapol class 66 chassis is some what easier.  Have a look at this link to Connolly station in N by driver301  

 

There are no other British outline models that are the same size as Irish locos,  some come close but again making a suitable body is not going to be an easy task.

In my experience to have Irish n gauge stock requires a lot of compromises and inventive ways of doing things. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

The Shapeways stuff appears to be 3D printed, or some such similar procedure. With N, errors are magnified times two, as are features which are coarse. Thus, even finishing the body requires some dexterity, and painting is probably worse!

I looked into this myself recently and regrettably decided against - but I'd be interested to see the results of such work elsewhere.

Those carriages are no longer in service. There were just over 40 of them, entering traffic 1963/4 and the last withdrawn within the last ten years. They were known as "Cravens".

Yes, I agree about the shapeways shells. The detail isn't good. Maybe in a few years the technology will be good enough. But for now I'm putting the Shapeways idea to sleep.

Thanks for the info about the "Cravens". That's probably more specific than I need to be. I just took that picture because it looks like what I remember all the carriages to have looked like when I was a kid. They don't have to be that exact car. I'm not much of a 'rivot counter'. Do you guys use that term there too?

Anyway, are there other carriage types that fit the same general look?

3 hours ago, dropshort105 said:

Shapeways are all there is for n, they are tricky, I played around with them a couple of years ago, gave them away in the end. Best to start with the a or c class, the hand rails on the GMs are impossible.

Are the A or C class locos like the second one I showed? Sorry, but I've just begun to work on this. It's been a vague idea for a while though, and I've searched a few times with no luck. I figured I'd try to see what was available generally, before getting more specific. 

I wonder if those GMs were sold in the US too. If so there should be an American model available that could be customized.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, MikeO said:

There is nothing in RTR for Irish N gauge. While Shapeways have bodies finding a suitable chassis and making it fit will present major challenges in respect of the two locos in your photos. A more modern option of a class 201 using a Shapeways body and a Dapol class 66 chassis is some what easier.  Have a look at this link to Connolly station in N by driver301  

 

There are no other British outline models that are the same size as Irish locos,  some come close but again making a suitable body is not going to be an easy task.

In my experience to have Irish n gauge stock requires a lot of compromises and inventive ways of doing things. 

 

 

Thanks for the link. That guy did a beautiful paint job. But the shells themselves are a bit rough.

 

The reason I added this Loco is not just because I remember it, but also because when I was a kid I had an OO model of this in both CIE and British Rail colors. Does anyone know if there's a BR version of this available in N-gauge?

Image result for irish cie trains

 

Also, do any of you know of any BR or other country's livery carriages that closely resemble the "Craven" cars or other similar cars. I remember the BR intercity cars that I had as a kid weren't far off. 

Who are the main N-scale companies in the Western European Islands these days? I'm guessing Hornby. Anyone new? Lima still around? Lemke, Arnold, and Fleischmann have mostly continental stuff IIRC.

These carriages would be fine too (though I prefer the craven type). Any one of the Orange/Black cars would be fine. How many different types were there btw?

irelan212.jpg

 

Image result for irish cie train carriages

 

Image result for irish cie train carriages

 

Can anyone recommend a good site that lists and describes the various Irish prototypes?

Thanks.

Edited by gavino200

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something like this would be close enough to pass for a CIE 201 class....with a new paint job. Maybe.

 

N Gauge class 25

 

http://www.railwaypictures.co.uk/img1445.htm

 

Or this?

76a.jpg

 

http://www.cheltmodrail.org.uk/exhibition.php?ExKey2=23http://www.cheltmodrail.or
g.uk/exhibition.php?ExKey2=23

 

IMG-20121120-00690 (G-ARPO) Tags: n gauge scale shelf layout cjm models weathered detailed locomotives locomotive locos loco 1980s 80s 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 denton rmweb model railway railways train trains british rail uk trainset set class 26 26038 railfreight grey red stripe graham farish dapol br modern image layouts locolotives weathering detailing

 

https://hiveminer.com/Tags/rmweb

 

 

Edited by gavino200

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dapol https://www.dapol.co.uk/shop/n-gauge/diesel-locomotives-n-gauge and Graham Farish (Bachmann/Kader) http://www.bachmann.co.uk/prod1.php?prod_selected=farish&prod=3 are the two main suppliers/manufacturers of British rtr.

The Dapol Class 33 would just about pass for a Metrovick from a distance (the old Lima OO/HO Metrovick were re-painted Class 33s.  The Dapol BR MK3 and Farish BR MK2 coaches would be close enough for the Irish stock of the 80s onwards.

The main draw back would be trying to achieve a decent paint finish on the locos and coaches together with spoiling some rather nice models and destroying the re-sale value.

Probably better to stick to Japanese or try out American N gauge 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For a list of Irish diesel locomotives look at this link, it is for Wikipedia  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_locomotives_of_Ireland

and for coaching stock look at this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaching_stock_of_Ireland

Both are useful to give you some basic information.

Another source of coach photos is this site http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/ie/car/IE/pix.html    There are some photos of Cravens near the end of the list.

You will not be able to just paint a British locomotive in Irish livery because they do not look the same..

For an early C class a BR class 22 is roughly the right size( it is a little larger) and has the right number of wheels(ie 4 called a Bo-Bo) on each bogie but the body will require a lot of work to make even passable.

For an A class which is similar to a c class but bigger a BR class 31 is roughly the right size (again it is a little larger) but also has the right number of wheels for each bogie(ie 6 called a Co-Co). Again the body will need a lot of modification.

On the basis of passability Hobbytran make a Vossloh G 2000 BB which has a cab at each end, a narrow body and guard rails running between each cab on both sides. It is a Bo-Bo and with some work to the narrow body and the roof it could become a class 181. It is a slightly smaller scale 1/160 as opposed to 1/148(British) or 1/150(American and Japanese) but the small scale makes it the right length.

British MK2 coaches can usually be passable intercity coaches.

 

This is a link to my t-Trak thread which shows some of my conversions including( at the end of page 1) the Vossloh G 2000 and some painted MK2 coaches

 

I hope this helps

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, all the above point to the reality - anything even distantly like Irish stuff is still do very far off the mark that it just won't look remotely right. Our carriages and locos were as different from British or mainland European stuff as they were from American.

I suspect that you might be able to get something vaguely like a 121 class diesel (1962-2006) out of a model - if one exists - of an American SW1500 switcher, to which they were distantly related. Even then, considerable surgery on the front would be needed.

All of the above has to apply, really, even for a "non-river-counter".

One can only hope that improvements in 3D printing will eventually bring availability in N to Irish railway modelling.

(Pat - N gauge J15, RTR, plus sixwheelers?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, MikeO said:

For a list of Irish diesel locomotives look at this link, it is for Wikipedia  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_locomotives_of_Ireland

and for coaching stock look at this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaching_stock_of_Ireland

Both are useful to give you some basic information.

Another source of coach photos is this site http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/ie/car/IE/pix.html    There are some photos of Cravens near the end of the list.

You will not be able to just paint a British locomotive in Irish livery because they do not look the same..

For an early C class a BR class 22 is roughly the right size( it is a little larger) and has the right number of wheels(ie 4 called a Bo-Bo) on each bogie but the body will require a lot of work to make even passable.

For an A class which is similar to a c class but bigger a BR class 31 is roughly the right size (again it is a little larger) but also has the right number of wheels for each bogie(ie 6 called a Co-Co). Again the body will need a lot of modification.

On the basis of passability Hobbytran make a Vossloh G 2000 BB which has a cab at each end, a narrow body and guard rails running between each cab on both sides. It is a Bo-Bo and with some work to the narrow body and the roof it could become a class 181. It is a slightly smaller scale 1/160 as opposed to 1/148(British) or 1/150(American and Japanese) but the small scale makes it the right length.

British MK2 coaches can usually be passable intercity coaches.

 

This is a link to my t-Trak thread which shows some of my conversions including( at the end of page 1) the Vossloh G 2000 and some painted MK2 coaches

 

I hope this helps

That helps massively. Thanks so much. Great information. Also, your T-Trak work is truly inspirational. Do you mind if I cross-post it?

I want to attempt what you have done with the rolling stock. I don't have your modelling skill, so I'll have to get a pro to do the custom painting. I've done that before once. I had a loco painted to look like the loco in the movie "Trainmaster" when by son was smaller. The loco looked amazing, All done with airbrush and custom printed decals. I think I'd do the same thing here. Hopefully, I can do the same thing here. I wont get to this super quick but I'll post pics when I get it moving along. For the time being I'll start trying to acquire base models in good condition.

Thanks again. Your work is amazing!

Class 181 and Mogul.jpg

Edited by gavino200

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The BR Class 33 seems like a good match also for the C. The main difference is the cab front window and whatever that thing on the roof of the C Class is. Otherwise they're very close. I think that's the one I had in OO when I was a kid. Side by side they were almost identical.

33_008_Woking_station.jpg

 

wpf4b0cdd1_05_06.jpg

Edited by gavino200

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Gavin

25 years ago in the 00 gauge world a Lima BR class 33 repainted in CIE orange super train livery passed as the closest thing to an Irish CIE A class, and I was very happy with mine back then, but not now as things have moved on.  However in N-Guage it might do for you.  Some pics below to show comparisons.

This was despite the incorrect 3 cab windows instead of 2, the cab side windows, port holes, wrong buffer beam, bo-bo bogie instead of co-co, head code box, etc.  The most noticeable different using the 2ft viewing rule is the 2 cab windows and protruding buffer beam.

7074455117_db69720437_b.jpg

 

These are 00 gauge RTR samples, but give you an idea of the differences.  Lima class 33 model from 1978 which was sold as a CIE A class in super train livery (orange).  25 years ago I was delighted and very content with the pair of CIE 215s seen below, so if you can respray an N-Guage BR class 33 and you'd be happy with its general appearance then you could also respray BR Mk1 or BR Mk2 coaches to go with it.  There are Irish liveried pre-coloured vinyl transfers available for some N gauge BR coaching stock available from a company in the UK.  The name escapes me.

IMG_4756.jpg

Lima class 33 on right posing as an A class.  Silverfox A class model on left.  Note significant differences in cab windows and buffer beam.  The Silverfox lacks precision but at least looks more like an A class than a class 33 respray.

IMG_4755.jpg

So yes if repainted like CIE 215 above it may suffice given the restraints of N gauge.  Luckily over the past 10 years all of the major  00 gauge Irish locos and many coaches are available in RTR as fine scale precision models thanks mainly to Murphy Models, and others as kits.  Hope this helps.

Noel

Edited by Noel
Lexdysia
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Noel said:

Hi Gavin

25 years ago in the 00 gauge world a Lima BR class 33 repainted in CIE orange super train livery passed as the closest thing to an Irish CIE A class, and I was very happy with mine back then, but not now as things have moved on.  However in N-Guage it might do for you.  Some pics below to show comparisons.

This was despite the incorrect 3 cab windows instead of 2, the cab side windows, port holes, wrong buffer beam, bo-bo bogie instead of co-co, head code box, etc.  The most noticeable different using the 2ft viewing rule is the 2 cab windows and protruding buffer beam.

7074455117_db69720437_b.jpg

 

These are 00 gauge RTR samples, but give you an idea of the differences.  Lima class 33 model from 1978 which was sold as a CIE A class in super train livery (orange).  25 years ago I was delighted and very content with the pair of CIE 215s seen below, so if you can respray an N-Guage BR class 33 and you'd be happy with its general appearance then you could also respray BR Mk1 or BR Mk2 coaches to go with it.  There are Irish liveried pre-coloured vinyl transfers available for some N gauge BR coaching stock available from a company in the UK.  The name escapes me.

IMG_4756.jpg

Lima class 33 on right posing as an A class.  Silverfox A class model on left.  Note significant differences in cab windows and buffer beam.  The Silverfox lacks precision but at least looks more like an A class than a class 33 respray.

IMG_4755.jpg

So yes if repainted like CIE 215 above it may suffice given the restraints of N gauge.  Luckily over the past 10 years all of the major  00 gauge Irish locos and many coaches are available in RTR as fine scale precision models thanks mainly to Murphy Models, and others as kits.  Hope this helps.

Noel

Thanks so much Noel. That Lima loco, is the EXACT model that I had when I was a kid. Come to think of it I remember looking at the trains in Blackrock Station and noticing that the locos were slightly different than mine. 

I also had a BR Class 33 loco, and while I have no pictures, I could swear it was exactly the same as the CIE loco except for the paint job and that thing on the roof. 

In any case, I'm trying to recreate a quite fuzzy childhood of the trains I used to watch as they whizzed by between Blackrock park and the sea. I'm not looking for much authenticity. The only person I need to fool is myself. :) I would like the quality to be good though. I'm not a rivet-counter, but I do like rivets and I like them to look real.

Edited by gavino200

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Noel said:

25 years ago I was delighted and very content with the pair of CIE 215s seen below,

IMG_4756.jpg

 

You didn't by any chance buy this through an add in the Southside newspaper from an eejit kid who was selling his trains for beer money?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Noel said:

There are Irish liveried pre-coloured vinyl transfers available for some N gauge BR coaching stock available from a company in the UK.  The name escapes me.

 

Please let me know if you think of the name.

Thanks again!!!!!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

You didn't by any chance buy this through an add in the Southside newspaper from an eejit kid who was selling his trains for beer money?

No they were both bought from W J Owens shop in Bray some time between 1975 and 1978 :) 

Its your layout and all that matters is that you enjoy the stock you run.  It's an imaginary model world linked to our nostalgia memory from childhood experiences.

Below was the stock I happily owned decades ago.  Hornby BR Hymek with BR Mk2 in foreground, and Lima BR Mk1s in the back ground that passed as CIE Laminate coaches.

DSC_6875.jpg

Lima CIE Mk1

IMG_5419_3.jpg

A pair of CIE Supertrain locos (Lima BR 33s)

LimaCIE_Class33s.JPG

Triang LMS coach to look like CIE hand painted when I was 14

IMG_1461.jpg

 

Hornby LMS stanier coach was LMS maroon resprayed earlier this year 

DSC_8972.jpg

So anything goes :) Have fun with your Irish N-Guage journey 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

Please let me know if you think of the name.

Thanks again!!!!!

Here is the link: http://www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk

Look under their "international->Republic of Ireland/Northern Ireland" link.  They seem to have some good info on RTR locos that can be paired up with Shapeways 3D body shells which exist for every class of Irish loco.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can certainly cross post any of the photos from my T-Trak thread. The photo you included above with my converted Vossloh G 2000 also shows the intercity coaches which have the Electra Graphics sides( referred to by Noel)  added. The coaches are Graham Farish MK2 coaches with the paint work removed.. this needs to be done to ensure that the windows on the Electra Graphic sides are correct. 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×

Important Information

Terms of Use