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StevieB

The Correct Livery

Question

The 1970’s, the period I am modelling, were a time of great change on the railways in Ireland, not least regarding liveries, when it was out with Black and Tan and in with Supertrain. Murphy Models produced 141, 165, 181 and 188 in B&T together with 142, 161, 182 and 192 in ST. However,  my trawls through photos of that period have shown that only 181 carries the correct for the period. Anybody have details of the other seven or do I need to do wholesale renumbering?

Stephem

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Hi Stevie.  B&T wasn't out over night it took almost 8 years. As far as I can remember many baby GMs remained Black'n'Tan livery right up to the mid/late 1970s, and as JB pointed out they were all B&T until the late 1970s. BTW, Murphy models released two locos numbered 141, the original 1960s with the 'staff' collector, and the later restored version.  I've a few extra black models which I am renumbering.

Edited by Noel
typo/Lexdysia
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Of the 49 members of the combined class, I have identied the livery carried by 34 of them in the mid 1970’s but this includes only 181 (B&T) that Murphy’s produced. So it’s basically two questions:

Were 141, 165 and 188 still in B&T in the mid 1970’s?

Had 142, 161, 182 and 190 been repainted in ST by the mid 1970’s?

Stephen

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The earliest changes into "Supertrain" were 1972. The first locos I personally ever saw were that year - a pair of 121s about to leave Heuston with a mixed train of laminates, Park Royals and a few Cravens for Cork. Both were pristine new - the first thing I noticed was the sparkling clean orange cab roofs. I am unaware of actual dates when each particular loco was repainted, but as mentioned above, all were repainted over the next few years.

I recorded 145 on the northbound goods shunting in Tuam in 1976, still in B'n'T, and an unidentified PAIR of 141s still B'n'T on the up Westport at Claremorris in 1978; days later I saw another B'n'T in Drogheda as part of a pair, the other being Supertrain.

Unless you're modelling an actual year or month, and you're aware of an actual painting date for a particular loco, a mix of BnT and Supertrain is completely appropriate for any year 1972-80; this applies not only to the 121, 141 and 181 class, but (pre-1978) the extremely few remaining 101s, then only seen much on weedsprays and ballast.

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I'm not trying to "plug" the books, but if you look in "Rails Through the West" and "Rails Through North Kerry", you'll see what I mean.

All Murphy's models are correct, as all locos carried both liveries. The only difference between any two locos was on which particular date each one was repainted.

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3 hours ago, StevieB said:

So it’s basically two questions:

Were 141, 165 and 188 still in B&T in the mid 1970’s?

Had 142, 161, 182 and 190 been repainted in ST by the mid 1970’s?

Stephen

I footplated 190 into Ballina about 1979 and she was in Supertrain. I'm 90% sure 188 was supertrained by 1977, when I saw her on the evening Rosslare-Limerick with two laminates and a van. I think that was 188.

From memory 145 and 147 were B'n'T quite late on but I don't recall details. Again, from memory 150, 151 and 155 were all Supertrain by at least 1976. I footplated 151 or 155 to Cobh on a local of dingy (and heavily "weathered") Park Royals. Cork-based suburban stock was by far the externally tattiest on the whole system, and the internally dirtiest.  With one exception: the dreadfully shabby ex-AEC pushpulls in Dublin. They were just ghastly!

The others you mention were all repainted in "the mid 1970s"; but that could be anything from 1973-77. Personally, I'm unaware of any information source giving exact dates for each loco.

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