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GNRi1959

Omagh GNRi station

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2 hours ago, PaulC said:

You keep teasing us with these little verbal updates but when oh when will we see a photo or two? :praying:

needpics.gif

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I don’t want to post photographs until l have track laid, I have a lot of points to buy - they are expensive. In the meantime, here’s a pic from last week when I started setting out my centre lines using handmade ply curves.

08E8A2C7-8047-4B7A-98F0-17ED6DB19B3D.jpeg

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It has taken 3 months to get to this point, I am in no hurry!

Edited by GNRi1959

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GNR, I don't wish to hurry you and know all to well the cost of gathering track up for a plan. The pic posted is more than enough to satisfy my curiosity of how the layout is progressing. I enjoy the read of a layout build warts and all and if a picture only shows me some woodwork and a paper drawn track plan it still serves a purpose for me to see how you are doing. :D

Paul

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11 hours ago, GNRi1959 said:
On 8/1/2017 at 10:13 AM, GNRi1959 said:

Yesterday I finally got down to start laying track on my baseboards, Omagh North is now alive. I thought I would begin a new thread to showcase the progress and hopefully established members can guide me along this path of discovery. At the moment almost everything is laid on the baseboards with fishplates in place but not fixed. Can I ask what is the sequence of events that follow - i.e. fixing, wiring, testing, ballasting etc and in what order?

It has taken 3 months to get to this point, I am in no hurry!

Don't worry Tony even if it may have been just a little more than 3 months :) It is your layout and your project so your time scale.  Jeepers I've been over 20 years at our layout (admittedly with a few very long breaks).  But the odd photo occasionally is always nicer than just a textual word or two. Keep the faith, it will be worth it once you've got some trains running.

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And the progress continues.........

Goods Yard (Top Right) - sidings (centre) - mainline out to fiddle yard (bottom) - station area (Top right) - single line circuit (coming off Y-point, bottom - this will allow trains to cross the flap across the entrance to shed. 

Can the experience men advise me if my point arrangements are ok and if they see and trouble ahead?

 

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In the foreground of this view I may make changes to the track arrangement so the inner circuit is clear of the shunting pointwork.

 

Edited by GNRi1959
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Code 75 Flexi track arrived today from TrackShack. Ordered Saturday, arrived safely in large card tube packed with foam. Well Done TrackShack.

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Trackshack seem to pride themselves on providing top customer service, fast delivery and low costs. Those big box shifters on the mainland should take note. 

Returning to your post from yesterday and looking at your two lines exiting st the bottom of the plan. Am I right in reading that the left one of these is your line to the fiddle yard and the one on the right is your line to complete the circuit of the shed?  If so, my only concern would be that locos entering from the fiddle yard cannot access the loop line without first entering the goods yard and then reversing out. The crossover points connecting these two lines should be positioned in the other direction allowing trains to access the layout and to exit back to the fiddle yard. 

Paul

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Good point Paul, I will reverse that point crossover. To be honest the other line is the mainline, I’m considering a few changes to allow an inner circuit to run continually while shunting can go on in the goods yard.

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Is it essential to have a complete circuit on a layout or is end-to-end acceptable. Having almost completed the marking out of my layout, I feel the circuit/run-around is a little artificial and non-prototypical. I know this is possibly because the shed isn't the biggest in the world but I tend to prefer the look of it in end-to-end fashion. I wonder if theres anyone else running end-to-end, as I'd like to hear their views. End to end gives me 6.4metres in running length.

Edited by GNRi1959

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1 hour ago, GNRi1959 said:

Is it essential to have a complete circuit on a layout or is end-to-end acceptable. Having almost completed the marking out of my layout, I feel the circuit/run-around is a little artificial and non-prototypical. I know this is possibly because the shed isn't the biggest in the world but I tend to prefer the look of it in end-to-end fashion. I wonder if theres anyone else running end-to-end, as I'd like to hear their views. End to end gives me 6.4metres in running length.

Fiddle-yard to fiddle-yard is definitely an option and is a change from the ubiquitous roundy-roundies. In DC the movement of trains can be automated including  station stops/station passing loops etc (in DCC no doubt the computer buffs could set up automation). This is the approach I have taken with my N gauge DC Cynwyd (automated station stops) and most recent Llanuwchllyn (automated station passing loop). The beauty of F2F is that you don't have to bend the track at each end to get the trains back around meaning the flow into/out of the layout is more prototypical.

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27 minutes ago, Irishrailwayman said:

Fiddle-yard to fiddle-yard is definitely an option and is a change from the ubiquitous roundy-roundies. In DC the movement of trains can be automated including  station stops/station passing loops etc (in DCC no doubt the computer buffs could set up automation). This is the approach I have taken with my N gauge DC Cynwyd (automated station stops) and most recent Llanuwchllyn (automated station passing loop). The beauty of F2F is that you don't have to bend the track at each end to get the trains back around meaning the flow into/out of the layout is more prototypical.

Gerry, I tend to agree and furthermore, it is a steam era goods layout. I don't think theres any pleasure in dragging various goods trains round and round either. It would be more realistic shunting them around the Goods Yard and sidings.

Edited by GNRi1959

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Its certainly not essential and really comes down to what the modeller is after. If watching trains running is your bag then a roundy roundy can have more potential. If organising freight in goods yards etc is more your thing then an end to end can be the perfect setup. Some dislike an end to end because they can't get trains up to full speed. Equally a roundy roundy can prove to be a no go as it tends not to appear prototypical. 

The corners on any layout tend to be the problematic areas for achieving any sense of realism as we have to bend that track so much from the prototype. It can also make things difficult to install points unless these are hand made. 

Just to throw another idea in to the pot.  Have you considered the option of using, say, two or three sides as scenics and the third/fourth as a fiddle yard much like you would get with exhibition layouts. You might be able to get the scenics more to your liking with smoother curves leaving tighter non protypical corners for the non scenic areas. Sorry if this adds to the thoughts rwttling through your head! 

Paul

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The only real bonus of a continuous run is for testing and running in stock. Not to be sniffed at, but not necessarily essential either.

 Timetabled/sequence running not a problem on a circuit either, but the terminus-fiddle yard set up very much replicates the rest of the world in terms of giving a sense of purpose to operation. For many people in Britain, it is the only option when only one or two walls are available as layout space.

 Arigna Town is little more than a loop and two sidings, but at exhibitions we run eight different trains in a sequence that lasts up to an hour. Complex shunting moves can be set up, but actually, we find it more satisfying to keep things simple and make sure they run really well.

 As others have said, it is all a matter of personal taste.

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As this layout has developed I have been able to tease ideas out and chew them over. Although it may appear that I haven’t a clue, in actual fact I’m building up a mental picture of what I want. As it changes and I grow more confident, I sense that soon I’ll be up and running.

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You could, with sufficient space, try this sort of thing and have a sort of bi-directional fiddle yard and scope for circular running.

wall-plan.jpg

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Hi Tony

Have you considered using a lifting bar flap section immediately inside the door for your continuous run?  This would allow you to both maximise the length of the continuous run and extend the length of the headshunt at the Northern end of the yard.

I have sketched out a rough block plan based on Omagh North with a bar flap just inside the doorway, it might be worth building the layout as a double tracked layout as there is no room for a crossover on the curve at the Portadown/Enniskillen end of the station with a min radius of 34" through the platform roads. The 28" grid is based on an American planning tool to work out whether a curve will fit within a given space. (24" minimum radius plus 4" allowance to outer edge of baseboard.

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This would allow you a lot more operational flexibility than with the bridging section half way across the operating well, the ability to have two trains running continuously or the operational complexity when the Irish North West was in operation with through Belfast-Bundoran excursions in addition to goods and passenger traffic from the Irish North

Fitting in staging with a conventional turnouts would be difficult on the opposite side, one solution might be to build a traverser style fiddle yard https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=traverser+fiddle+yard&rlz=1C1CHBF_enNZ752NZ752&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjf4s6eqZjZAhWMVLwKHVOfA6wQ7AkIMg&biw=1366&bih=662

This would work nicely if you raise the trackbed on a raised sub-base with most of the viewing side of the station on an embankment.

 

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John and Broth, I really am overwhelmed by your efforts to find a solution but I should explain that I want to keep it simple, within reason and not turn the entire shed into something resembling a  Scalextric set. As much as I admire your efforts, railways ran from A to B. I have many ideas teased out and just this morning started marking out another possibility. All the time in the world to plan and tweak, until its time to start laying track. Thank you again.

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You could always compromise and have the best of both worlds by having a fiddle yard to fiddle yard layout, with a hidden connection to form a complete circuit. Great for testing, or running in locomotives, or just plain watching the trains go by.

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David, I have a fiddle yard to turntable. The fiddle yard starts after the line leaves Omagh for Derry under the bridge at the North end and the turntable is at the opposite end with the double engine shed and siding. This weekend I am going to take a good lock at options here and see what I can come up with, even if it means a bit of extra work, thanks for 'pushing me' that little bit forward.

Edited by GNRi1959

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I have to concede to the fact that this layout is not working and I am putting a complete halt to it. Today I dismantled some of the sections that were added to try to salvage the layout but it didn't work. I'm going to sit back and think it through again and return when I'm ready. Feels like I've been caught up in a vicious circle of spending for no reason. I've decided that when I'm ready I will be using one side of the shed as my workshop and the other as a small layout, similar to Arigna Town - limited track work and points but with much detail and stock. This layout is one of the most inspiring I've ever seen.

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Having very strong opinions regarding layout design I tend to refrain from offering too many suggestions on the subject on this site. However having followed your ongoing design delimma with great interest I feel it is time to offer my input. My suggestions, a simple branch line terminus to fiddle yard along three sides of the shed incorporating a turntable, a one or two road loco shead and service facilities. Build it high enough to allow comfortable operation from a tall stool or standing and allowing space under the fiddle yard for a workbench. A short branch to a factory/industrial district/Harbour in front of the fiddle yard which would be hidden by removable  low relief buildings. Regarding oo guage or 21 mm, I don't wish to dissusuade anyone from  trying broad guage but remember building an Irish layout will present plenty of challanges with rolling stock and buildings. Don't bite off more than you can chew espically if it is your first model railway. 

Edited by patrick
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Patrick, some very interesting suggestion there, I thank you - they are appreciated!

The thread, I believe has exhausted itself and is now closed.

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GNR, don't despair, it happens to us all. I went two years along a road of building GH1 only to discover it wasn't working for me and ripped it all up to start again. That included a lot of track and point purchases all of which were either sold on at a loss or binned. 

I think you are on to something with your desire to replicate in some form Omagh station. You have the research, the photos, the maps and most importantly, it's of local interest to you which gives you more enthusiasm for it. It's just a matter of finding some aspect of it that you can create in the space available that will please you. It might just be the station building and a couple of tracks. Maybe the goods sidings will appeal more. Whatever it is, don't give up on your idea, it just needs modifying. 

Keep researching and that flash of inspiration will come to you. 

Paul

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