sayhall27 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Hi all I'm quite new to modelling Irish stock.been looking at all available sources for locos for my layout. Is it worth it to buy the models from here. Also advice welcome for being able to create a range of stock for a GN mainline layout in the UTA/NIR changeover period and years previous. TIA Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Hi Sam, Welcome to the forum! Studio Scale Models produce some really good stuff, but most of their kits are etched brass and the larger locos especially require a bit of skill with soldering, etc. You could always start out with one of their brake van kits and see how you get on. The proprietor, Des, is a regular poster here and I'm sure he will be happy to answer any queries you may have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayhall27 Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 Thanks Garfield. I am looking at every option for making a later period GN fleet, S class V class and goods variants mainly. Even had a suggestion of a southern railways C class conversion. It'll be a long process to build up but I'll never be bored of it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Blarney Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Sayhall27, It may be worth your time contacting "OO" Works. They produced a GNR(I) UG as UTA No 49. Members on this forum are doing their best to persuade this manufacturer to instigate a second run of this model. Were you to place an order - for one or more locomotives - you wold be increasing your chances of acquiring a genuine Irish Model. I have committed to two locomotives should they decide to proceed with this second batch. They, OO Works, are also producing two versions of the GSWR 0-6-0 Class 101 - CIE J15 for delivery towards the end of 2018. For you, everything will depend on what you can afford to spend, and when you can spend your money. There are a number of alternatives - OO Works is just one of them. GNR -VS. A certain Mr Flanagan produced one for me from a SR Schools as well as No4 from a Fowler. Oh, he also built UTA No 15 for me. i also have locomotives that are built from Studio Scale Models Kits - unfortunately I cannot recommend these kits - GNR T2 nor the Bandon Tank. Des, if you wish to discuss this - please contact me. David White Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Sam, if you're looking at the time when NIR was coming into existence, you've just missed the last GNR locos. NIR started off with one of the Sligo tanks, restricted to York Road and docks, and nothing else but Jeeps. A RTR "Jeep" is long overdue, but with such a small market probably not likely to appear any time soon. All varieties of NIR railcars of the day are best scratchbuilt, though reasonable approximations can be made by serious kitbashing of some British types of railcars. It all depends on your wallet, available time and skills. You will find the community here to be of immense help with every possible aspect of railway modelling, and along the way you will gain great inspiration from some of the amazing layouts you'll see scenes from here. If you go back just before NIR, say mid 60s, you've got the Derry Road and Warrenpoint branch as inspiration, both with superb scenery, and a few GNR locos still bumbling about. U and UG classes will predominate, perhaps a D class 0.6.0, and of course the occasional 4.4.0 still - though no longer blue! Either ("S" class) in lined UTA black, or covered with such a layer of filth and grime that virtually no blue is visible at all..... For loco hauled stock, it you can get something to resemble a Jeep - some sort of British Stanier tank with surgery carried out - you can use a number of standard RTR Hornby / Bachmann carriages of LMS parentage, just repainted either UTA green or the early NIR loco hauled livery of all maroon, with a 3" light grey line at waist level. So there's your Sunday School specials to Portrush covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayhall27 Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 Thank you for the kind reply. I am slowly building a collection and wondering is black and tan out of place in my preferred era of 50s to 70s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 No, not at all. The black'n'tan started appearing in earnest in late 1962, but was really making itself known from 1963 on. It had been trialled in 1961. So BnT is fine in your era. The "supertrain" version (all orange / tan, with broad black stripe covering window level, orange roofs etc., was first introduced in 1972, though Cravens would never carry it. Only locos and air-con stock. So, through the era you're looking at, mid 60s, you have this, in terms of visitors from CIE to the north (UTA): A class: Some black, some black with yellow panel on end, some black'n'tan; mostly to be seen on goods. 121 class: 1962-5 - grey and yellow, but gradually becoming BnT; I think the last one in grey was about 1967. 141 class: never anything other than BnT (until "supertrain" era post-72). 101 class: a very. very rare animal indeed north of Dublin; indeed most of their activity was always in a rough triangle Cork - Limerick - Waterford. However, the occasional visit north, usually on the goods, would have seen a green one head for Porteeedown and then probably go back to Dublin. I am unaware of any 101 ever making it to Belfast, and the only pics I've ever seen of them on the GNR are taken between Dublin and Dundalk - it's possible they mightn't even have got north of there. An A class made it to Monaghan at least once, while BnT 141s with CIE stock made it onto the Derry Road during 1963. As far as I'm aware, no C ever went north of Dundalk, though i stand to be corrected on that. In your era, CIE coaching stock was a mix of let's say 10 BnT coaches to every one still in green. The green used was what was applied to the TPO at Downpatrick and G611 before they were as badly faded as they are now, or the diner in Cultra. The RPSI is not known for correct liveries, unfortunately, (and nor is Cultra....don't start me!) but that one's about right. The loco-hauled "Enterprise" was a mix of ex-GNR coaches now in CIE livery, and things like laminates or Park Royals. Cravens would appear in the mix - but never a full rake - until the troubles were in full swing, when they went back to laminates as they didn't want to risk having good carriages blown up in the north. The UTA / NIR "Enterprise" went through phases. The GNR AEC railcars were in use in the 60s on this service. the last steam one was about 1963, as far as I remember - I saw it (with UTA ex-GNR stock). The railcars were all in UTA dark green (not unlike what the Whitehead Mk 2 set has today) by about 1962/3, having been repainted out of the GNR navy & cream. Next, the new 70 class started on the Enterprise. These were what would become the familiar maroon and light grey - but this was still UTA days; NIR, on their inception some 18 months later, would use this as their standard livery until the maroon and blue appeared on the new Hunslet-drawn Enterprise in 1970. For a while in the mid 60s, some of the old GNR AEC sets were repainted in a mid-blue and creamcolour system, with silver roofs, for the Enterprise. This was very short lived, as were several other "regional" liveries used by the UTA for a year or two. Most stuff, of course, was dark green. A bit of a clumsily put together account, but I hope it helps. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Ah - I misread the title of your post. 1950s - very different. Blue 4.4.0s on Enterprise, and GNR coaching stock all brown, except some (but not all) steel-panelled post-1954 stock which was navy and cream. UTA stuff dark green with older (pre 1963) "Red Hand" roundel. If you cover 1949-54 or so, a decreasing number of maroon NCC coaches still about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 As a kit builder (& manufacturer) and some time scratch builder I believe that SSM/TMD kits are certainly worth it in terms of ease of build and satisfaction with the end product and I personally find it easier to build a kit or scratchbuild a model than attempt to kitbash a rtr model into something else. It depends pretty much on personal preferences some modelers are content to kit bash rtr models into a caricature of an Irish model which looks reasonable from a distance, others prefer to build a model that's closer to the prototype. De Selby (Alan Edgar) RM Web threads on kit and scratchbuilding GNR & NCC locos will give you an idea of what can be achieved with this approach. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/98951-gnr-ireland-vs-class-4-4-0-a-skritchbuild-in-4mm/. The GNR has a great advantage over other Irish railways in that the majority of the steam classes that ran on the main lines and on secondary services, a lot of coaching and wagon stock is available in kit form from SSM & Worsley Works and the OO Works locos & Provincial wagons are a quick way of getting started if you work in OO. The kits can be assembled to run in OO or 21mm if you are up to the challenge, building 4-4-0 & 4-4-2T locomotives to run round small radius curves can be challenging and best avoided for the sake of realism. A coach is probably a better option than a loco or even the GNR goods brake for a 1st build in brass as they are basically designed to bolt together with the minimum amount of soldering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Having several SSM products myself, I can say they’re excellent looking. They do require skill to put together - mine were not assembled by me, otherwise they mightn’t look as well.... Excellent range of models. I would recommend them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRich Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Agree with the above SSM kits are quality when built right. Rich, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 5 hours ago, RedRich said: Agree with the above SSM kits are quality when built right. Rich, An etched or whitemetal kit is seldom a write off. Brass & whitemetal kits are very forgiving and poorly assembled kits can be improved as a modeller gains experience and develops skills. Quite a few modellers in the UK dismantle and re-build poorly assembled kits bought at swap meets and on e-bay. My first efforts with brass kits 25-30 years ago were frankly rough, but have been improved and upgraded over time my first locos the MGWR Tank and J15 are still going strong with original gears, wheels and motor after 30 years & one rebuild/repaint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 If you already have the skills and/or time to acquire the skills, it seems worth it judging by the good kit quality and results of the few superbly skilled brass masters on here. Brass is not my personal cup of tea, I do not have the skills, time nor the tools required to build steam locos in brass to a standard I would be happy with. In this day and age the medium seems more from a past era rather like like using a sextant to navigate instead of sat nav. But that's probably just me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrayec Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Mayner said: An etched or whitemetal kit is seldom a write off. Brass & whitemetal kits are very forgiving and poorly assembled kits can be improved as a modeller gains experience and develops skills. Quite a few modellers in the UK dismantle and re-build poorly assembled kits bought at swap meets and on e-bay. My first efforts with brass kits 25-30 years ago were frankly rough, but have been improved and upgraded over time my first locos the MGWR Tank and J15 are still going strong with original gears, wheels and motor after 30 years & one rebuild/repaint. Total agree with John I have reclaimed a fair few brass and white metal kits for people- the Flying Scot on my work bench is one example (though the first attempt by the owner was with super-glue which made the de-construction a bit easier) I have two J15 brass kits and a white metal 121 being reclaimed at the moment- well when time allows! SSM kit's are superb, I would recommend if your starting to do brass kits for the first time- first have a go at SSM's telephone kiosk, then a Wickham Inspection Van, and then on to what you want- S or V! Brass kits do need a bit of working out, they do not go together like an modern Airfix model- check 6 times & solder once! and get a copy of Ian Rice's book 'Etched Loco Construction' Wild Swan Publications, or George Dent's Modelling books- Kit Building Vol 1 & 2- Loco Construction, and Rolling Stock Construction- both have a healthy serving of brass kit building and more. Noel;- here is a spanner! what happens if your sat nav battery runs out? a good navigator would know the workings of a sextant! I believe the modeller should apply the same rule..... Eoin Edited August 1, 2018 by murrayec 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMCE Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 7 hours ago, murrayec said: - check 6 times & solder once! Then calmly reach for your extensive list of handy expletives and use the most appropriate one for the occasion. Gently unsolder the joint and re-solder the correct way! Ahhh....that's better..... Ken 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 8 hours ago, murrayec said: here is a spanner! what happens if your sat nav battery runs out? a good navigator would know the workings of a sextant! I believe the modeller should apply the same rule..... Ah now Eoin - Firstly two independent chart plotters, with a third hand held backup one powered by dry cell AA batteries, and if all that fails I have the paper charted course, last known WPT, log distance, CTS, next EP and HBC ready to take next bearing. But I get my depth info from sonar rather than dropping a lead line over the side every so often! I did actually train how to navigate using a sextant and sight tables but that old stuff has been 100% redundant for many many years, as have paper charts, but I like to keep my hand in just in case all three stat nav constellations GLONASS, GPS and Galileo all get wiped out by an EMP (that's enough acronyms to keep Wrenneire happy). Agree absolutely SSM kits are of a high standard for folks who wish to tackle brass kits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Noel said: Ah now Eoin - Firstly two independent chart plotters, with a third hand held backup one powered by dry cell AA batteries, and if all that fails I have the paper charted course, last known WPT, log distance, CTS, next EP and HBC ready to take next bearing. But I get my depth info from sonar rather than dropping a lead line over the side every so often! I did actually train how to navigate using a sextant and sight tables but that old stuff has been 100% redundant for many many years, as have paper charts, but I like to keep my hand in just in case all three stat nav constellations GLONASS, GPS and Galileo all get wiped out by an EMP (that's enough acronyms to keep Wrenneire happy). A bit like the story of the blind man looking for a black cat in a dark room, I recently had the experience of trying to find a holiday cottage on the side of a mountain in Wales without satnav or cell phone coverage, to compound things the post code for the property/district was incorrect. We solved the problem by asking for directions at a nearby farm house.. I did get to see and ride on some narrow gauge trains though and re-explore the area after 15 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broithe Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 (edited) I volunteered to try to find some B&Bs in a particular village in Wales, before the internet, etc. I rang the post office, on the basis that they would have a good idea of what was going on. "There's only two and neither of them do it all year" "That's OK, can I have the addresses?" "Jones, Main Street" "And the other one?" "Jones, Main Street" At which point I laughed - "You can laugh! I have to deliver the bloody mail round here..." Edited August 2, 2018 by Broithe 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 11 hours ago, Noel said: Ah now Eoin - Firstly two independent chart plotters, with a third hand held backup one powered by dry cell AA batteries, and if all that fails I have the paper charted course, last known WPT, log distance, CTS, next EP and HBC ready to take next bearing. But I get my depth info from sonar rather than dropping a lead line over the side every so often! I did actually train how to navigate using a sextant and sight tables but that old stuff has been 100% redundant for many many years, as have paper charts, but I like to keep my hand in just in case all three stat nav constellations GLONASS, GPS and Galileo all get wiped out by an EMP (that's enough acronyms to keep Wrenneire happy). I use a DDT which I connect to a left-handed SUV inside a SWQAXTX, though it can interfere with G-23W (if the TV is on). I use Z23 power-connected T/7s, aligned with Saturn and connected to a 28% KLJ9. That does be the extent of my abilities...... I think I'm getting old........! serious point: I'm a great believer that the skills involved with old manual methods for anything are often superior to electronic widgetry that can go wrong and be unfixable..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 On 7/27/2018 at 10:46 PM, jhb171achill said: ...A RTR "Jeep" is long overdue, but with such a small market probably not likely to appear any time soon. .... No, but the Worsley Works "WT" is now virtually ready, so do contact Allen Doherty if you want one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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