Jump to content
Colin R

Dundalk, Newry & Greenore Railway

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Hi all.

Yet another hare to start running, I have been reading DSM Barries book on the DN&GR, now while the locos are still available from the GEM successors and Worsley work do most of the ex LNWR 6 wheeled coaches, I am at a lost to find anything about the Bogie Composite coaches they used on the Belfast Boat Express.

I understand they where 54ft but that does not make any sense as far as the LNWR is concerned since they where only building 50ft coaches at the time so to build something which was longer does not make any sense, so I am wondering if anyone may have that rare photo of these coaches while the DN&GR was still operating.

As far as I know there is not a kit for them so it looks like a butcher job on some Ratio coaches.

I have had a look on the net but so far have not come across any photos of them.

 

Regards

 

Colin

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Irish Broad gauge carriages a pictorial introduction, Desmond Coakham, page 87

Quote

The three bogie coaches, Nos 24-26 of 1899/1900, built for the through boat trains from Belfast owed more in their layout to GNR influence in that they had lavatories for all three classes and a guards compartment at one end. Their dimensions  were 50ft by 8Ft 6in though they were gas lit, doubtless much to GNR displeasure

It also mentions their later careers having already been mentioned (possibly in a different section of the book) but I can't seem to find it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

8ft 6 in width?

Built to British, rather than Irish, loading gauge? Unlike their six-wheelers, or indeed - as far as I'm aware - a solitary railway vehicle built new for Irish use prior to the Mk 2s for the Enterprise in 1970!

 

(I said "to my knowledge").....!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, snapper said:

Irish Broad gauge carriages a pictorial introduction, Desmond Coakham, page 87

It also mentions their later careers having already been mentioned (possibly in a different section of the book) but I can't seem to find it.

Should have given this book a look before I asked, but there is a photo on Page 62 of the type of coach I am looking for, but I don't think it is a tri composite, I can only assume that they became another GNR(I) coach group K27?

 

Colin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RM Arnold's Golden Years of the GN Vol 2 has some information on the Belfast Boat Express. It would appear that the train ceased running after the accidental sinking of the LNWR Passenger steamer 'Connemara' when it collided with the Clanrye Steamship Co 'Retriever' at the mouth of Carlingford Lough on 3 November 1916. Arnold seems to imply that the GNR provided the motive power from Greenore, probably a PP or U or similar small 4-4-0 as nothing larger was permitted. Express due in 1913 at Edward Street, Newry 6.42am  a GNR Breakfast car was included in the consist and arrival at GVS 7.45am.

I have the GNRI Working Timetabl;es for 1917 together with additional working notices etc and there is accordingly no mention of any boat express's or through coaches off the DN&GR to Belfast or Derry.

Ernie

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

Have you more details of this Colin?

Hi Patrick

You need to contact Lytchettmanor models on the following link

http://lytchettmanor.co.uk.websitebuilder.prositehosting.co.uk/lytchett-manor/news-archive

He does not have the display on the web site at the moment, but if you contact him he will let you know how much the kit will be.

Colin

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its worth bearing in mind that the Greenore engines  were in reality saddle tank versions of the  LNWR "DX"goods with 5'2" wheels rather than the Special tank 4'6" wheels.London Road do a Special tank kit which far better than the old GEM kit and can also supply the proper size splashers from their DX kit,an almost finished one has been spotted at Courtmacsherry recently.Andy.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yet another hare to start running, I have been reading DSM Barries book on the DN&GR, now while the locos are still available from the GEM successors and Worsley work do most of the ex LNWR 6 wheeled coaches, I am at a lost to find anything about the Bogie Composite coaches they used on the Belfast Boat Express.

I understand they where 54ft but that does not make any sense as far as the LNWR is concerned since they where only building 50ft coaches at the time so to build something which was longer does not make any sense, so I am wondering if anyone may have that rare photo of these coaches while the DN&GR was still operating.

If you have the original of DSM Barrie's book, there's a photo of a painting of the Belfast Boat Express. I'll scan it when I'm back home where the book is.

Well, these aren't the coaches in the painting in DSM Barrie's book, but they're close - in the painting they are being hauled by a Class PP - so my No.42 fits the bill. The coaches were built by Jol, owner of London Road Models (see David's reply). They are LNWR "English" coaches, but all became Irish coaches when the GNR(I) bought them from BR in 1948 or so. I had the opportunity to buy them at Scaleforum recently and thought it would be nice to recreate the painting on my layout! Actually, I've always loved the LNWR coach livery, so that was the original attraction. 

DSCN1070.thumb.jpg.b816545d2e14c3ddb7f9192aacee5604.jpg

This is similar to the painting, but an attempt at a side on view (not easy among the struts in my loft!).

DSCN1079.thumb.jpg.779cd1e9efbb1a126704b23ec6f3aa28.jpg

Although each of these is identifiable as a GN coach Class, I'm not going to repaint them in Mahogany!!!!

Edited by leslie10646
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leslie, the coaches are of no interest to me but I have some nice pictures of GN PP Class No.42 at Omagh on an IRRS Special. Is this a scratch build or kit built model of yours? Looks fantastic.

 

 

 

 

Edited by GNRi1959
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, Tony, I was on that train!!!! My first rail tour in 1961, I believe! This looks like us waiting to come off the Markets Branch at Omagh.

The model is built from the Rowlands kit (forgotten the guys first name or his trading name) - now available from Des of SSM.

It IS a nice model and runs very well with 4 bogies or so - I took it off a train of Richard Ellis-Hobbs' GN coaches to set up this "photo shoot".

David, thanks for the heads-up on the LNWR six wheelers. There is a rake being made by Richard McLachlan for a DNGR layout based, happily enough, in the Dundalk area. I'm owed one of those six wheel full brakes, because, one was at Portadown roundhouse, presumably in some use as a tool van, or whatever.

Edited by leslie10646
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For a DNGR layout, those six wheelers are absolutely essential, as they made up the consist of virtually every single train. The boat train was short lived, and the more usual use of one of their few bogies was to strengthen a train of 2 or 3 six wheelers.

With locos readily adaptable, and beautiful coastal scenery, the DNGR would make an amazing model. GNR goods stock from the Dept. of Provincial Wagons, plus certain classes of GNR tank loco (the SSM one, maybe) would complete the picture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has just turned up on a Facebook group that I got roped into.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/109619289726001/permalink/277947209559874/

 

Image may contain: outdoor

"Greenore Ireland.

View of the yard, with the quays and goods shed on the left and the station area on the right. The rear of a LNWR bracket signal can be seen in the centre whilst a DN&G saddle tank is to be seen shunting in the centre background.

Photograph Courtesy of Mr J Ryan LNWRS reference SOC1403"

  • Like 3
  • WOW! 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not too many layouts based on the DNGR - I remember seeing one on display in Carlingford once, possibly entitled 'Ravensdale Viaduct'.  Nice subject, the DNGR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

Terms of Use