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murrayec

CIE Laminate Coaches - Worsley Works - ECMbuild in 4mm

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The bogie sides were completed today, some difficulty with the mould so I'll have to revisit that! though I got 4 sets of sides out and I can now proceed with the laminate coach;-

Painting and filling the side patterns,

238883491_CB-17IMAG4387.jpg.d6761844224337e5d9b58c89b0c3848a.jpg

The mould, you can see where I cut vents out to the side of the mould, I also drilled hole through the mould to get the suspension shock brackets to work- these are a bit thin and I think they have to be beefed up next time around,

30705851_CB-18IMAG4397.jpg.7a6614a70df960984fce1c47a59b73cc.jpg

Castings with brass shock and torsion bar installed

1405505797_CB-19IMAG4392.jpg.56a344074630ce79d44e7c9dfb4c9dcb.jpg

A bit of a rub down with the fibre pen is required,

1130635554_CB-20IMAG4394.jpg.7ee5ee4d1bb1562103ee8a16584adca9.jpg

The 8' 0" bogie units and roof vents eventually arrived, so their next

1937159983_CB-21IMAG4396.jpg.ab04b8ee8e78f56f7abd284aa486da89.jpg

Eoin

 

 

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Thanks guys for kind comments

MJT 8' bogie frames were put together, coupling bar n socket added and the sides glued on with epoxy- a nasty bit of soldering there, liable to see something melt so glue is your man!

1434588302_WWCB-33IMAG4405.jpg.3e72d6eb9c16a6ec4f3b3825a56377dd.jpg

1877210409_WWCB-34IMAG4408.jpg.ac902cae51a170e1f6af9118d25cf54c.jpg

2093036761_WWCB-35IMAG4407.jpg.cac01a2daf9034d0be9616a8850f30e4.jpg

and on the chassis

1255111933_WWCB-36IMAG4401.jpg.55cb08e45461d0bbd0b51fbac19b01a5.jpg

1179026267_WWCB-37IMAG4403.jpg.d446b6cc18ad7a11949f6a12ed72debb.jpg

and these are the patterns to cast up break vacuum cylinders

574779883_WWCB-38IMAG4409.jpg.3184453b1dcfe65bbc54fc005b78da67.jpg

There are a few brass bits to go with these, yet to be cut out........

Eoin

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Posted (edited)

First Parts of 2019!  Happy New Year to you all......

Brass parts cut out of .39mm brass sheet, needing a bit of an edge clean up, fold, and then solder.

1714071867_WWCB-39IMAG4414.jpg.55dd33af2a07a2662c39ec4160996558.jpg

All done, with a .5mm brass shaft to be soldered in when going onto the chassis.

1605649177_WWCB-40IMAG4415.jpg.8df58d589f843444cde5916cd2857adf.jpg

Making the mould to cast the tanks in whitemetal was then done and the first casts tested today!

Placed on the chassis to check final location.

1590218150_WWCB-42IMAG4420.jpg.42288e92f5694b1c0add78170ef07f1a.jpg

2114364873_WWCB-42IMAG4421.jpg.4f8fab0cca1734bd01eb652c32075944.jpg

1965778218_WWCB-43IMAG4424.jpg.17289b047f57ddfeef1089ff80c29664.jpg

And screw coupling linkage- I have a packet of these MJT etched kits and this is a good excuse to try them, their a bit fiddly but look good when finished. Not sure how they will work with the bogie coupler! they get in the way.....

1556318722_WWCB-44IMAG4426.jpg.f2cab30fb63b24126ad8bf02df9d1499.jpg

 

Here is a question;- Did Laminates use generators? if they did from what period, this coach livery is Black n Orange?? also- any photos?

Eoin

 

Edited by murrayec
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Y

1 hour ago, murrayec said:

First Parts of 2019!  Happy New Year to you all......

Brass parts cut out of .39mm brass sheet, needing a bit of an edge clean up, fold, and then solder.

1714071867_WWCB-39IMAG4414.jpg.55dd33af2a07a2662c39ec4160996558.jpg

All done, with a .5mm brass shaft to be soldered in when going onto the chassis.

1605649177_WWCB-40IMAG4415.jpg.8df58d589f843444cde5916cd2857adf.jpg

Making the mould to cast the tanks in whitemetal was then done and the first casts tested today!

Placed on the chassis to check final location.

1590218150_WWCB-42IMAG4420.jpg.42288e92f5694b1c0add78170ef07f1a.jpg

2114364873_WWCB-42IMAG4421.jpg.4f8fab0cca1734bd01eb652c32075944.jpg

1965778218_WWCB-43IMAG4424.jpg.17289b047f57ddfeef1089ff80c29664.jpg

And screw coupling linkage- I have a packet of these MJT etched kits and this is a good excuse to try them, their a bit fiddly but look good when finished. Not sure how they will work with the bogie coupler! they get in the way.....

1556318722_WWCB-44IMAG4426.jpg.f2cab30fb63b24126ad8bf02df9d1499.jpg

 

Here is a question;- Did Laminates use generators? if they did from what period, this coach livery is Black n Orange?? also- any photos?

Eoin

 

Yes they had dynamos and battery boxes some were later fitted with TL lighting but many would keep the batteries/ dynamo until they were withdrawal in the mid 1980's .

Great work on the laminate 

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Hi Eoin. Yes, the laminates were equipped with dynamos and battery boxes when originally built and while some were converted to T.L., others retained these until withdrawn. Here are a couple of photos of 1455 and 1469 in Black & Tan with dynamos and battery boxes. The photos were taken in 1979.

CIÉ - 1469 at Dublin Connolly - 01r.jpg

1455 at Dublin Connolly - 2906r.jpg

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Excellent photos, josef. 

The upholstery at that stage was a very dark charcoal grey, rather than the somewhat garish bright blue seen in some coach models.

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6 hours ago, murrayec said:

First Parts of 2019!  Happy New Year to you all......

Brass parts cut out of .39mm brass sheet, needing a bit of an edge clean up, fold, and then solder.

1714071867_WWCB-39IMAG4414.jpg.55dd33af2a07a2662c39ec4160996558.jpg

All done, with a .5mm brass shaft to be soldered in when going onto the chassis.

1605649177_WWCB-40IMAG4415.jpg.8df58d589f843444cde5916cd2857adf.jpg

Making the mould to cast the tanks in whitemetal was then done and the first casts tested today!

Placed on the chassis to check final location.

1590218150_WWCB-42IMAG4420.jpg.42288e92f5694b1c0add78170ef07f1a.jpg

2114364873_WWCB-42IMAG4421.jpg.4f8fab0cca1734bd01eb652c32075944.jpg

1965778218_WWCB-43IMAG4424.jpg.17289b047f57ddfeef1089ff80c29664.jpg

And screw coupling linkage- I have a packet of these MJT etched kits and this is a good excuse to try them, their a bit fiddly but look good when finished. Not sure how they will work with the bogie coupler! they get in the way.....

1556318722_WWCB-44IMAG4426.jpg.f2cab30fb63b24126ad8bf02df9d1499.jpg

 

Here is a question;- Did Laminates use generators? if they did from what period, this coach livery is Black n Orange?? also- any photos?

Eoin

 

This is modelling at it's best. Top class work Eoin =D

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Hi

From josefstadt's posted photos above- very handy, it's quite hard to find photos of this coach type up close! there is no sign of storage tanks under frame! What do we reckon?- this is a break coach would it have had storage tanks?

1518112417_WWCB-45IMAG4421.jpg.27311b0031c45f3833714e484e5a8e72.jpg

Eoin

 

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Posted (edited)

I don’t think these coaches had storage tanks , but with  battery boxes there is a lot of confusion all of these coaches park royals , buffet cars and brakes  had four battery boxes two on each side this was common practice, worlsey works supply them with only two battery boxes , I recently got a IFM TPO and this only has two as well when it should be four . I think the confusion comes from UK coaches normally having two but in Ireland particularly with CiE it is four or if its a TL coach then it’s no battery boxes . 

Edited by flange lubricator

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2 hours ago, flange lubricator said:

I don’t think these coaches had storage tanks , but with  battery boxes there is a lot of confusion all of these coaches park royals , buffet cars and brakes  had four battery boxes two on each side this was common practice, worlsey works supply them with only two battery boxes , I recently got a IFM TPO and this only has two as well when it should be four . I think the confusion comes from UK coaches normally having two but in Ireland particularly with CiE it is four or if its a TL coach then it’s no battery boxes . 

Thanks fl,

OK so no storage tanks,

on the boxes- yes that confused me;- the break coach kit came with only two battery boxes and the standard came with four! All photos I've seen so far have four boxes,- not seen a photo of a break though. But I assumed as supplied in the kit the break only had two! it would be a nasty bit of de-soldering to change the chassis above to four box.......

@jhb171achill

What do you think?

Eoin

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I couldn’t say for certain about battery boxes, Eoin, to be honest. The advice above, however, would appear to me to make perfect sense.

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21 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I couldn’t say for certain about battery boxes, Eoin, to be honest. The advice above, however, would appear to me to make perfect sense.

Thanks jhb

I'll make it four, as you say makes perfect sense, it was in my mind at the start of this but somehow went out of the head!, and we've gone to the trouble to get the boiges right I'd like to get it right overall

Eoin

 

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Eoin, having spoken with a friend who is an expert in these matters, I can confirm that the cylinders arrowed in the attached photo of the model should, in general, not be included. Also, from examples I have seen photos of there should be four battery boxes. I am attaching a photo of 1932 at Claremorris. Although not the same type as the model, there are four battery boxes (two on each side). Do Worsley Works indicate which type (number series) their Brake Standard is?

I say ‘in general’ referring above to the cylinders because, while for most of the time these weren’t installed, carriages which ran with the 2600 Class AEC railcars did have a single vacuum storage cylinder fitted. This was because the vacuum exhausters on the railcars were small and thus were very slow to release the brake. To speed up brake release each coach had vacuum tank. See attached photo of Craven 1517TL at Connolly. After the withdrawal of the AEC railcars these tanks would have been removed from the majority of the carriages fairly speedily.

Laminate Brake Standard.jpg

1932 at Claremorris - 1701r.jpg

1517TL at Dublin Connolly - 1805r.jpg

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The Worsley Works Laminate Brake Standard is based on the 1909-1913? series built in 1959.

 

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5 hours ago, Mayner said:

The Worsley Works Laminate Brake Standard is based on the 1909-1913? series built in 1959.

 

Thanks John.

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Thanks josefstadt

Yes the extra storage tanks are out and the extra battery boxes are currently been cut out for installing.....

Great photos again, thats the first one of a break coach I've seen.

In your previous issue of photos, on the second photo the generator seems to be driven by a belt from the axle on the bogie! Is the generator mounted off the bogie frame or the coach floor? I would have thought with the bogie swivelling there would be problems with a belt if the generator is hung from the floor!! any views on this guys?

Eoin

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The dynamo was mounted on the coach frame  with the belt attached to the  axle with a belt housing which clamped the the axle this was wide enough to allow for movement of the bogie but belts would still break for those of us old enough to remember the discarded dynamo belt's littered about the permanent way .

 

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Hi fl

Thanks for that, I remember seeing them on the tracks!  so thats were the belts came from......

I must build that in- every so often it will throw a belt!

Eoin

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6 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

So if it has storage tanks there are no battery boxes and vice versa ?

Not so. The batteries and the vacuum tanks, vacuum reservoirs, are for two distinct features. The batteries were solely for providing electrical power for internal lighting in the carriage. They remained in use until the introduction of the Train Line (T.L.) lighting system in the 1970s. When a carriage was converted to the T.L. system it lost the four large battery boxes and gained in their place a small control box and a small battery for emergency lighting in the vehicle, should the main lights fail (see the photo of 1517 above).

The vacuum reservoirs, where fitted, provided for the quick release of the brakes on that vehicle. As noted above they were only fitted to vehicles that worked with the AEC railcars, due to the size of the exhausters (used to create the vacuum) fitted on the railcars. These were too small to efficiently create a vacuum and thus release the trains brakes. The reservoir provided a store of vacuum which would be fed into the brake cylinder, thereby releasing the brakes. Carriages which had the vacuum reservoirs fitted also had two vacuum pipes, one to operate the brakes in the normal manner and the other, slightly smaller pipe, to create the vacuum in the reservoir. In conventional locomotive hauled trains the provision of vacuum reservoirs was not required. The exhauster on the locomotive was large enough to release the brakes efficiently and also, the train could be held on the loco brake, while the carriage brakes would be released in preparation for departure.

3 hours ago, murrayec said:

Hi fl

Thanks for that, I remember seeing them on the tracks!  so thats were the belts came from......

I must build that in- every so often it will throw a belt!

Eoin

Hi flange and Eoin. The belts came off when they broke. I certainly remember the permanent way littered with them!

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Break shoes! no point in doing the break cylinders and gear and not have shoes!

Modified Dart Castings 2952 wagon shoes, trimmed down and stuck to a styrene bar for moulding for plastic casting.

1233138396_WWCB-46IMAG4428.jpg.d475c6d09148656f05d7bd6a6d574e34.jpg

Moulding and casting done the shoes are being fitted to the bogie frames with epoxy.

215846299_WWCB-47IMAG4441.jpg.49d9828907cbac821b37ab3230e094c5.jpg

Little shoes.

423653192_WWCB-48IMAG4445.jpg.592f304ba7ed1dec463e95e2620771df.jpg

The chassis now sports 4 under-frame boxes-  the existing boxes were de-soldered and both soldered on one side, 2 new boxes were made up and soldered to the other side. Break Cylinder, break shaft brackets and dynamo are 180deg soldered on.

17458130_WWCB-49IMAG4446.jpg.271e76e9446445836561c54f5ef1519a.jpg

The new boxes.

368633825_WWCB-50IMAG4447.jpg.a19c1e0d4ebd09d5e419b9a4d00df608.jpg

1317239194_WWCB-51IMAG4449.jpg.358f3a5e2aed10780aa463c93940e914.jpg

1333512620_WWCB-52IMAG4452.jpg.d64b751d7e1c318625a8994dd2f914a9.jpg

Chassis is more or less done, a few small fittings to go on and side angle folded up- ready for clean up and painting.

Eoin

 

 

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Beautifully work and a very high standard of workmanship, looking forward to seeing it finished.

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Great work, the four battery boxes make all the difference, the bogies are the puppies private’s . I’m currently finishing off an IFM bogie TPO but I’m am holding back in the hope that you might release a 8’0” commonwealth bogie . 

Edited by flange lubricator
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