Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Horsetan

SSM GNR(I) "S"-class 4-4-0

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2621[/ATTACH]

 

Horsetan, page 5 of the S Class has a diagram of the etches with numbering (and even the original non digital) instruction had this Is this not on the softcopy I sent you?

 

Eh, no. There was no diagram...*bangs head against wall repeatedly*:((

Edited by Horsetan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Eh, no. There was no diagram...*bangs head against wall repeatedly*:((

 

Rest easy, check your email and the etch diagram is there for you. Customer service for even non-customers. Howzat eh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scalefour Stores has covered itself in glory by sending me the wrong back-to-back gauge. Back it goes. Read the order sheet next time, Mr. Suter! :-(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you had a look at the latest Scalefour News Horsetan. Have you heard about or seen the Pórt Láirge Wharf layout mentioned on page 3.

 

Rich,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
.... heard about or seen the Pórt Láirge Wharf layout mentioned on page 3.

 

No. But now you've told me about it, I do hope they might replicate the line along the waterfront.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont know if there is any connection, but a minimum space 7mm Irish Broad Gauge layout Port Lairge Wharf appeared in 80s and is still on the Scottish Exhibition circuit http://home.btconnect.com/Enhance-Ecosse/llcase.html.

 

This is part of Richard Chown's Castle Rackrent empire based on 19th Century WLWR practice the fiddle yard is called Port Lairge Market!

 

The running lines along the waterfront is a fairly recent deveopment, in the 1970s main line was diverted to run along the riverside to provide space for the present day gantry road and freight loops.

 

Originally there were sidings in the area between the main line and the river, complete with a rail served wharf used for importing coal, Port Lairge Wharf?

Edited by Mayner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The incorrect back-to-back gauge went back to Scalefour Stores this morning.

 

Meanwhile, three useful books published by the Belfast & County Down Railway Museum Trust turned up today, courtesy of Cuan Publications:

 

 

 

Each volume is limited to 550 copies; not sure how many of each class the Trust has sold so far, but I'd say you should get them whilst you have the chance.

 

Having read Volume 6, I am now having very impure thoughts about creating a "WT"-class 2-6-4T.

P170912_17.54.jpg

P170912_17.54.jpg

Edited by Horsetan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest hidden-agenda

Them books look good any drawings inside them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Each class book has a weight diagram showing wheelbases, axle loadings, and some basic data, but no more than that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AGW wheelsets have arrived,

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2702&d=1348005472

 

and I can't wait to get started, even with no back-to-back gauge....

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2703&d=1348005493

Edited by Horsetan
Photos!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AGW wheelsets have arrived, and I can't wait to get started, even with no back-to-back gauge.

 

I look forward to seeing this progress, good luck and I'm sure it will be an amazing model.

 

Rich,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I look forward to seeing this progress, good luck....

 

Ah, thanks for that.

 

If anyone out there knows where I can get drawings for the inside cranks and motion of the "S" class, I'd be really grateful. I don't think the NRM (York) holds many Irish works drawings.

 

OT, but I have found plenty of drawings for the NCC "WT"/Jeep 2-6-4T in this list :-bd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

High Level hornblocks and bearings arrived for engine and tender. No gauge, but think I'll make a start anyway.

 

These show the four hornblock guides in different stages of preparation, from flat etch to ready-to-fit.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2707&d=1348178307

 

The whole thing relies on a few folds, taking a few minutes; no soldering needed until you fit them onto the chassis frames.

Edited by Horsetan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time to get the frame etch out and start checking measurements:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2708&d=1348178334

 

Coupling rod bearing holes come out at 38mm centres, which is dead-on for a scale 9'6" wheelbase, and this matches the measurement for the axle centres on the frames:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2709&d=1348178359

 

Now I did say I would be trying to equalise the chassis using Continuous Spring Beam suspension. On this four-coupled chassis, I want the centre / fulcrum point of the leaf-spring beam to be above the level of the hornblock guides. Looking at the chassis frames as supplied....

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2710&d=1348178388

 

....this could be a problem, because the low top line of the frames means there's nowhere to install a fulcrum. In an ideal world, the topline of the frames would continue straight through where the letters "T M D" are, instead of dipping down.

 

'tis time to improvise......

Edited by Horsetan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The correct back-to-back gauge arrived in today's post. I don't believe it.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2736&d=1348262940

Edited by Horsetan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's good news I might invest in another one myself in case my other one goes missing. Is there a checkrail or flangeway gauge available from the stores for 21mm as it's always handy to have two of each.

 

Rich,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couldn't wait to test a pair of driving wheels on the Ultrascale lengthened axle:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2737&d=1348262965

 

This shows the measurement over the wheel faces to be about 25mm, so if and when I order more driving axles from Ultrascale (think of the NCC "WT"), I can ask them to supply them at 25mm long as a reasonably standard length for Irish 5'3".

 

...Is there a checkrail or flangeway gauge available from the stores for 21mm as it's always handy to have two of each.

 

There's supposed to be both a checkrail and a flangeway gauge in the Stores list.

 

Tip: if you're stuck without the flangeway gauge, try substituting a spark plug feeler gauge, as there's usually one of the right thickness in the bunch. For example, one of the feeler "fingers" has a thickness of 0.58mm and this is dead-on correct for the flangeway in dead-scale (no compromise) Scalefour. It would also work for dead-scale 5'3" flangeways.

Edited by Horsetan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One wheel is mounted flush with the axle end:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2739&d=1348263018

 

The other end shows the excess portion needing to be sawn-off:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2738&d=1348262994

 

Easy job with a piercing saw.

 

In this photo, you can see that I have test-quartered the wheels, with the offside (r/h) crank leading:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2740&d=1348263041

 

For those who don't deal with steam, that basically means that when the engine moves forward, it's the right-hand crank that will come round first, followed 90 degrees later by the nearside (l/h) crank.

 

I don't know yet whether right-hand lead is correct for the "S"-class. There were some British steam classes (I think the LNWR "G2A" 0-8-0 was an example) which had a left-hand crank lead, as does the Drewry "04" diesel shunter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest hidden-agenda

An email to the RPSI may answer your question Horse. I am sure some one would be able to shed some light on it as its some thing i would,nt have thought of as you rightly point out, unless your in to steam i would be making an assumption it did,nt really matter as long as they were quartered. By the way i cant see the whiskey bottle in the back ground.

Edited by hidden-agenda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sawing off the excess axle length means I have a grand total of ONE completed wheelset :banana:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2743&d=1348355933

 

....so I could start putting the coupling rods together: 2 layers for each rod. Aluminium hairgrip is all you need to keep 'em together during soldering:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2744&d=1348355959

 

Then remove the rod from the fret in order to file down and clean up the excess solder:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2745&d=1348355977

 

An evening's work:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2746&d=1348355995

 

I think we'll start sawing out some chassis spacers next.....

 

 

...By the way i can't see the whiskey bottle in the background.

 

That would be a Chivas Regal 12-yr-old. It will be mostly empty by the time this engine is finished.

Edited by Horsetan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'll put up photos of the three main types that have been used in UK railway modelling: the 1219, 1616 and 1624. Each came with a 3-stage bevel & spur gearbox and were marketed here as the Escap RG4 from the late 1970s until the mid-2000s when the gearboxes became unavailable.

 

The motors themselves are of course still being made.

 

 

 

I stockpiled them when they were in production, so mostly paid about £35 or less. I had 20 in the drawer the last time I checked. On eBay, people go mad if one appears and I've seen them go up to £235 for a single unit; £65 to £80 is more usual.

 

I would like to see the gearbox / geartrain being made again. They would be a grand drivetrain for any motor, not just coreless. Sure there must be a gearmaker in Ireland who can do this type of thing....??

 

Just got myself an RG4. Sweet gearbox mechanism and love the way the bevel gearing allows the motor to be turned. More impressed though by the reputed 50% efficiency rates as versus 20% for a wormgear equivalent. That's just ANIMAL power output. I'll have to look at dickying around to make an equivalent myself....though to quote Captain Evans, I may be some time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just got myself an RG4. Sweet gearbox mechanism and love the way the bevel gearing allows the motor to be turned.

 

For me, that was the whole point of having them. Low resistance, low current consumption. And you don't need to undo any screws to disengage worm gears, because the thing will backdrive all day long.

 

If you're going to be doing a bit of messin' with it, see if you can introduce different spurs to vary the overall ratio.

 

More impressed though by the reputed 50% efficiency rates as versus 20% for a wormgear equivalent. That's just ANIMAL power output. I'll have to look at dickying around to make an equivalent myself....though to quote Captain Evans, I may be some time.

 

I'm going to be experimenting by replacing the Escap motor with one by Maxon, which is supposed to be even stronger, using the same bevel gearbox.

 

Meanwhile I've started to draw out the chassis spacers for 21mm gauge on nickel-silver sheet......

Edited by Horsetan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK so, this morning I scribed horizontal lines through the driving axle centres:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2794&d=1348609746

 

Generally mark on the inside of the chassis frames, not the outsides which would be visible to the public. The whole point of doing the lines is to have a visible guide to where the axles should rest once the suspension system has been introduced:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2795&d=1348609766

 

I will need to scribe yet more lines to take account of where the leaf springs will run, and where the fulcrum points should be (midway between the driving axles, for example).

 

Since this particular kit was produced before Ireland changed over to the Euro, I had expected bits to be missing. In fact the only things that were absent were dedicated wider spacers for 21mm gauge builders. Not sure if "Weshty" / Des has been able to supply wider ones since taking over the SSM range, but they certainly wouldn't go amiss. For my part, I'm making my own. The first major part is the upper rubbing plate which sits above the bogie, which you see here at the top left corner of the fret:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2796&d=1348609801

 

As designed, it's for 16.5mm gauge only. I need to make a wider replica of it, keeping the same overall length and fold lines for now. In order to end up with an overall chassis width of 17 to 17.5mm wide, the estimate is that the spacers should be at least 16.7mm wide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally TMD or was it SSM supplied the kits with 15mm brass spacers for 21mm use.

 

If you can live with the compromise I can supply a set of 15mm etched n/s fold up spacers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally TMD or was it SSM supplied the kits with 15mm brass spacers for 21mm use. .....

 

There are loads of screw-in brass spacers in the kit I acquired, but they all measure 11.1mm wide. I'm not quite sure what other purpose they could be used for - possibly reinforcing the insides of corners, maybe?

 

If you can live with the compromise I can supply a set of 15mm etched n/s fold up spacers

 

Let me cut my own first. If I get into real trouble, I might have to come back to you. :tumbsup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There are loads of screw-in brass spacers in the kit I acquired, but they all measure 11.1mm wide. I'm not quite sure what other purpose they could be used for - possibly reinforcing the insides of corners, maybe?

 

 

The 11.1mm spacers are intended for OO.

 

Originally the S & J15 were supplied by TMD Models with 11.1 and 15mm square section brass spacers bored out to accept a through bolt, the screw in spacers are a more recent development.

 

I tend to follow your example and produce my own rather than use the brass spacers provided.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Completed cutting the second driving axle just before leaving for work this morning, so I now have both driving wheelsets test-mounted and gauged to 19.85mm back-to-back. Was a bit unhandy with the piercing saw on the second set, so there are a few scratches on the tyre faces :(

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2853&d=1348778451

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2852&d=1348778435

 

.....I tend to follow your example and produce my own rather than use the brass spacers provided.

 

I think L-shaped spacers from n/s or brass provide more support than the square ones.

 

What I could do with is more frame depth in the area of the driving wheels, particularly over the hornblocks, to provide a bit more strength to the topline of the frames. I know the original design which persists to this day was the most expedient way of catering for most builders, which is fine and would have worked well for the many people who bought and built these kits over the course of two decades-plus; I just wanted to see if I could develop it a bit further.

 

I am looking at assembling the footplate/ cabsides / valances as the kit stipulates, and then assembling and test-fitting the cab interior (which the instructions say is for 21mm gauge anyway - grand :tumbsup:). Putting these sub-assemblies together will hopefully show me how much room I've got for the chassis, and whether I can add material to strengthen the latter whilst I install the CSB suspension system.

 

The bogie also looks as though it can tolerate a change in assembly.

Edited by Horsetan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thickness of each mainframe is 0.5mm, so the homemade spacers will need to be at least 16mm wide.

 

Further time has been spent using CLAG principles for setting up the continuous spring-beam suspension:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2867&d=1348938039

 

For an in-depth guide to how the principles work, click here. This being a four-coupled chassis, I'm using the symmetrical 2-axle setup.

Edited by Horsetan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After acquiring replacement drill bits, I had a think about how to set up the frames. The instructions refer to using the rectangular brass screw-in spacers, but they weren't what I wanted. My own P4 frame assembly jigs are set at around 14.8mm wide for British standard gauge; too narrow for Irish 5'3".

 

Thinking laterally about the problem, and having a trawl around a local electronics shop, some nylon hex spacers and screw-in spacer caps were discovered:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2993&d=1349562083

 

The hex spacers are 8mm wide and superglueing a pair together makes a spacer 16mm wide - perfect:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2994&d=1349562102

 

The screw-in caps will help keep the frames in place whilst the proper nickel-silver spacers are soldered in:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=2995&d=1349562129

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's an excellent compromise with the hex spacers. The updates of the build are very informative and are a breath of fresh air as I haven't seen anything like it on here before regarding a 21mm build of a steam loco so well detailed and described. It's got me itching to have a go at something similar myself. Maplins are a great source for getting tools and other items for railway modelling. I've purchased wire for the electrics on previous layouts and the new build. Soldering irons, drill bits, transformers etc among countless other items needed for the hobby. I recently picked up a nice soldering fume extractor and some extra filters for a good price.

 

Rich,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
... It's got me itching to have a go at something similar myself. ...

 

Rich,

 

Well Richie, there's a brace of irish loco kits just waiting for new owners here at SSM HQ....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well Richie, there's a brace of irish loco kits just waiting for new owners here at SSM HQ....

 

It would be my first port of call Des. I love a challenge and seeing a great piece of engineering take shape and become something living.

 

Rich,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's an excellent compromise with the hex spacers.

 

I specifically wanted something that would give me a 16mm spacer width. It was truly the "Luck of the Irish" that I realised the hex spacers, when glued together, would do the job.

 

The updates of the build are very informative and are a breath of fresh air as I haven't seen anything like it on here before regarding a 21mm build of a steam loco so well detailed and described.

 

I adopted the step-by-step photo approach with notes, so everyone can see how I work and - if they choose - adapt those methods for themselves. Think of it as a nod to the exploded "eejit diagrams" designed by Airfix, Revell, Tamiya and so many other international plastic kit producers.

 

It's got me itching to have a go at something similar myself.

 

Scratch that itch :ROFL:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×

Important Information

Terms of Use