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Horsetan

SSM GNR(I) "S"-class 4-4-0

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... I better not let the missus see me doing it.

 

Would she let you scratch hers if she scratches yours? ;)

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Just after another burst of work this evening. I did say I would start assembling the footplate (and the cab later) to give me an idea of how much space I would have for the chassis and its suspension system. OK so:

 

The instructions direct that the footplate (part P11) is sawn out of the body fret:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3062&d=1349995613

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3069&d=1349995934

 

I did not remove the centre section (with the nameplates on) as I wanted the footplate to stay as rigid as possible.

 

The instructions now dictate that the valances (part P8 x2) are removed from the chassis fret:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3063&d=1349995636

 

It helps if you have a small vice to trap parts for soldering and filing jobs. I'm removing the traces of tabs from a valance here:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3064&d=1349995824

 

....and we end up with nearside and offside valances ready to go on the underside of the footplate:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3065&d=1349995839

 

These valances must each be fitted 0.5mm from the edge of the footplate, so we use the digital calipers to help mark the positions at each end of the footplate underside:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3066&d=1349995863

 

Front:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3067&d=1349995889

 

Rear:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3068&d=1349995914

 

Next stage is to bend down the rear drawbar at the rear of the footplate. There's a half-etch line for this, which you must have at the inside of the fold, and it's a simple 90-degree bend:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3070&d=1349995965

 

....and there ye go:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3071&d=1349995987

 

The actual positioning of the valances in the right place, ready for soldering, was the part I really loathed. Remember that the original design of this kit is nearly three decades old, so there are no tabs-and-slots, or etched guidelines; you must use the marks you made earlier at each end, plus a couple of hairclips, to keep the valances in line and at 90 degrees to the underside:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3072&d=1349996093

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3073&d=1349996117

 

The potential nightmare is having the hairclips let go and the valances falling off during soldering. I had to be gentle when brushing flux along the join, and then being very quick with the soldering iron (I use a 25w Antex for most work) to tack solder at strategic points, a bit like the oul "spot welding":

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3074&d=1349996138

 

If it stays upright, I can then flow the joint so that the solder spreads along it. You don't need a lot of solder, and I only flowed it in three areas:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3075&d=1349996158

 

The second valance is soldered in the same manner, so we now have this:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3076&d=1349996179

 

Use your vice to hold the very edge of the footplate - there's not a lot to grip there!! - so that you can now fold the semi-circular coupling rod splashers into an upright position. I'm using a flat file to do this, but you can use a steel ruler as well:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3077&d=1349996201

 

This is why I did not put any solder by the coupling rod splashers as I wanted them to be easier to bend up. I think we will leave it here for tonight:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3078&d=1349996221

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Would she let you scratch hers if she scratches yours? ;)

 

No mate the honeymoon period is long over.

 

Rich,

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I think we'll have a go at the cab and cab interior next - this is specifically aimed at 21mm gauge builders, and the diagram shows that it has a lot of parts!

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OK so, here we are again after getting distracted by work. "Work is the curse of the drinking classes" (Oscar Wilde).

 

The next job on the instruction sheet is relatively simple, involving part P37 (the buffer beam inner frame)

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3326&d=1351982533

 

and P41 (the beam overlay):

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3327&d=1351982554

 

What the instructions don't tell you is that part P37 has to be folded according to the etch lines at each end of it:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3328&d=1351982576

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3329&d=1351982591

 

This followed by P41, the overlay which needs to be soldered over it:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3330&d=1351982603

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3331&d=1351982977

 

Remember that the square buffer bases must be at the lower edge of the overlay, not the upper! You only need to flow the very minimum of solder, because the next job is to fix the completed buffer beam to the footplate you made earlier. It takes time to make sure you've got it all in line, and the back edge of the buffer beam "sandwich" must butt up against the front edge of the footplate valancing:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3332&d=1351982998

 

Again, only the minimum of solder should be flowed into the join - and it's best to run it from the inside (or behind the beam) so that you don't get solder going all over the rivet detail:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3333&d=1351983017

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The instructions do mention that you should now fit half-etched sandbox filler caps (Part P49) into the half-etched holes in the footplate, and footsteps P34a, P34b and P34c. This is up to you. I chose not to add these details yet as I wanted to make sure I had the main structure looking right.

 

Therefore the next job for me was part P21, the cab front inner frame:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3334&d=1351983211

 

The legs of this are folded at right-angles - I use my mini-vice to hold it and the steel ruler to do the actual job of bending:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3335&d=1351983230

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3336&d=1351983252

 

This task should be as simple as hiding your assets....

 

father-ted-ulster-bank.jpg

 

....outside the jurisdiction of the Republic:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3337&d=1351983267

 

I also took a look at part P24, which is the cab floor (including the inner splasher sides for the trailing driving wheels):

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3338&d=1351983288

 

The etch lines on it are a bit weak, and could be usefully widened with the apex of a triangular needle file:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3339&d=1351983308

 

....and that helps you achieve a cleaner 90-degree / right-angle bend:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3364&d=1351984293

Edited by Horsetan

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Returning to the instruction sheet, Parts P18 (nearside and offside cabsides/splashers) are now removed form the fret:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3363&d=1351984293

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3362&d=1351984293

 

The insides of the cabsides have horizontal etched lines. These act as guides for the cab front assembly, and what you do is run the "legs" of it along the etch lines:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3362&d=1351984293

 

...whilst simultaneously making sure the cab front is flush with the leading edge of the cabside:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3360&d=1351984293

 

Setting this all up was sheer hell, but hairgrips - if arranged the right way - have enough tension to keep things together to allow you to start soldering:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3359&d=1351984293

 

Once again, only run the minimum amount of solder that you think you can get away with:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3358&d=1351984293

 

....before repeating the process with the offside cabside:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3357&d=1351984293

 

Now is the time to balance your cab and splashers on the footplate, just to see how things are looking:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3356&d=1351984293

Edited by Horsetan

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The "S" class has a very Edwardian wrapround roof, and these are a total swine to form cleanly, as brass and nickel-silver will distort in all sorts of unexpected ways. SSM/TMD try to make the job easier by making the roof eaves half-etched, but there is so little material above the cabside's curved cut-out that the whole lot will deform.

 

The instructions say that you should bend the top of the cabsides, using a 2mm rod to get the right sort of curve. This isn't quite as easy as it looks:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3355&d=1351984293

 

I tried to attain a clean curve by using a steel rule at the back:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3354&d=1351984293

 

....but the grade of brass in this old kit was a bit mad, and I found the task difficult to control properly. The following photo shows the extent of the problem:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3353&d=1351984293

 

As you can see, the offside roof eave is almost there, but the nearside shows signs of distortion, and it will need more work with the 2mm drill former to correct. At this point, I felt a bit like that episode where Father Ted is contemplating his "repair" work on the dent in the car that the Diocese gave for the raffle to raise funds to fix the Parochial House roof.......

 

"Ye know, ye're too much of a perfectionist, Ted...."

 

25821.jpg

 

Looking forward to this build its nice to see a step by step guide

 

I call it the Eejit Guide to Building - 'cos when you read it, you can avoid the mistakes this eejit made :banana:

Edited by Horsetan

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Guest hidden-agenda

Where the hell you been Horse, i have waiting to get stuck into this bottle of Glen fiddich and you no show come on more pics.

First class so far and inspirational to say the least.

Edited by hidden-agenda

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It's great to see the new updates Ivan, and it's nice to see you back

 

'tis all about getting the time for it. In reference to what you wrote about the younger modellers losing these skills to build - well, in the same way, there are skills that I would have loved to have learnt, such as being able to use a lathe and turn my own fittings or make my own wheels.

 

But there are a good few capable young engine builders out there - do a search for Tom Mallard, who I think is at least seven years younger than me, but builds engines with the maturity and self-assuredness of someone who has spent a lifetime in the craft. And he charges accordingly - I think he'd be around two grand-plus(that's sterling, not Euro) if you wanted him to build something like no.800 Maedhbh for you. I call him "Stella Artois", because he's reassuringly expensive.

 

 

.... waiting to get stuck into this bottle of Glen fiddich.....

 

I'm just after having some Talisker at teatime, even though I'm more of a Jameson's man meself. :tumbsup:

Edited by Horsetan

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A bit more work on rolling the cab roof eaves has been reasonably successful, and they now look like this:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3437&d=1352239982

 

The whole point is to get the roof profile to match that of the cab front, which is why I said earlier that the thing wasn't as easy as it looked!

 

We are almost ready to start soldering the cab and splashers to the footplate, so that means the central section carrying the nameplates can be sawn out. The instructions say that on the inner rims of the footplate have half-etched "ledges" for the cab and splashers to sit on, and they are visible in this shot:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3438&d=1352240013

 

You'll also spot that the right-hand/offside "ledge" is far better defined than the nearside one, which doesn't give enough room for the nearside splashers to rest on. This is likely to be a flaw in the etching process, which allowed one side to be more exposed than the other. The original artwork should have both sides equal - perhaps Des / Weshty can confirm that the artwork he inherited does in fact look that way?

 

Here we are for tonight, and it's begining to look a bit more like no.171 in the Erecting Shop:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3439&d=1352240035

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Really patient and dedicated work, I don't envy you, but it's tidy work, and will be worth it in the end. The few experiences I've had with brass had me making that face :SORRY: which coincidentally is identical to the shape of the etched cab plate where it meets the boiler. :P richie

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The really good thing is that you can build this kit as a number of sub-assemblies before you try to fit everything together. It may not have been Terry MacDermott's original intention when he designed it all those years ago, but it's certainly turning out that way! There is room for improvement, though.

 

Cab interior next, I think.

 

Question: if anyone has any photos of no.171 with its boiler "off the frames" (has it ever been lifted in preservation?), I'll pump your arms off if there are views of the inside motion!

Edited by Horsetan

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Question: if anyone has any photos of no.171 with its boiler "off the frames" (has it ever been lifted in preservation?), I'll pump your arms off if there are views of the inside motion!

 

It would be worth firing off an email to the RPSI about this... some of their crew may have images of work being done in the workshops. They could also put out a request on their e-bulletin, which more often than not will yield results. :)

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Now would be the time to get a photo as 171s boiler is currently out of her frames, and in the near future her motion is to be stripped, so if you want a complete bottom half photo act quickly!

 

Regards

LE

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It would be worth firing off an email to the RPSI about this... some of their crew may have images of work being done in the workshops. They could also put out a request on their e-bulletin, which more often than not will yield results. :)

 

Now would be the time to get a photo as 171s boiler is currently out of her frames, and in the near future her motion is to be stripped, so if you want a complete bottom half photo act quickly!

 

Thanks for this. E-mail sent. Fingers crossed......

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This evening, the instruction sheet order was skipped somewhat, and the backhead (part P48) was removed from the etch, and inserted into the cab floor that I'd formed earlier:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3463&d=1352328070

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3464&d=1352328093

 

When dealing with something like this, hold it in a small vice and always try to solder it in from the rear, so that you don't risk obliterating the etched detail:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3465&d=1352328127

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3466&d=1352328149

 

The first attempt left a bit of a gap under the backhead, as will be apparent from the photo, so some fiddling with the iron was needed before it was properly seated. The backhead must sit at a perfect 90-degree right-angle to the cab floor, otherwise there is a risk that adjacent parts may not fit correctly.

 

Next part to come off the fret is P51, described in the sheet as a "platform upright":

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3467&d=1352330475

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3468&d=1352330495

 

This is a simple plate with small wings to be bent 90 degrees:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3469&d=1352330514

 

You have to mount it underneath and at the very rear of the cab floor, and only hairgrips will make it stay there whilst you get your soldering iron in:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3470&d=1352330988

 

Use your tack-soldering method to keep it in position:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3471&d=1352331007

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3472&d=1352331024

 

...before flowing and finishing the joint. I think I used a bit too much solder in this one:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3473&d=1352331322

 

Test fitting the cab floor/backhead module between the cab sides now gives us this:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3474&d=1352331344

 

The instruction diagram suggests that there should be no gaps between the vertical sides of the trailing splashers and the horizontal plates which now form their tops. In reality, there are noticeable gaps as can be seen, so these flaws will need some correction. Whilst I was thinking about how to deal with that, I couldn't resist sliding the firebox (which comes ready-rolled) into the cab front (there will be an overlay to be added later), just to see how it looked......

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=3476&d=1352331853

 

I'm just after realising that this topic has magically become a "sticky"! :-bd Deadly!

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Guest hidden-agenda

Lovely work so far Horse its starting to look like a loco now fill the glass (a large measure you deserve it ) and keep the pics coming.

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Dear Clare Man

 

Just to encourage you and you are certainly getting there ....

 

Ones I had made earlier (by a guy called Daniel Wu in Hong Kong, who had never seen a steam engine in his life, but had built about 20 DJH kits before tackling Terry's kits (as they were then) - he was very complimentary about the quality of the kits and it's great that Des is keeping this flag flying!).

 

First, the engine of engines - No.171 (actually, my Engine of Engines is No.207, but she's somewhat late now!) -

 

Slieve Gullion in sunshine.jpg

 

and a shed full, four of the locos were built by Daniel - two Class S, a QL and a SG2 - the others were built in England and are two T tanks and a SG.

 

Shed 1.jpg

 

Like my railcars - a very lazy bunch they are, most having barely turned a wheel. However, the SG2 is being run in between Portadown and Richhill on the days I venture into the loft!

 

Leslie

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They look fantastic Leslie. The builders did a fantastic job. They were beautiful locos and the models really capture the look of the real thing.

 

Rich,

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Coming on nicely, 'twill be a thing of great beauty when finished, as was the prototype. 21mm gauge too - well done sir! One day I could be very tempted by a 7mm scale one

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Coming on nicely, 'twill be a thing of great beauty when finished, as was the prototype. 21mm gauge too - well done sir! One day I could be very tempted by a 7mm scale one

 

David, Paul Greene will see you right for the 7mm version.

 

 

Horsetan, great construction photos. Hairgrips eh? Necessity is truly the mother of invention...

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My apologies to everyone who's been waiting patiently for things to progress on 171.

 

I've been experiencing a frustrating year trying to track down drawings, photos and information about no.171's inside motion and leading driving cranks. I finally had a reply from the RPSI and its Locomotive Officer about a month ago, after offering a donation to 171's Overhaul Fund, but it all seems to have gone dead again. I know that the RPSI are constantly busy, and even more so with "Q" class no.131 potentially coming to life next year, but I do sometimes wonder whether they tend to leave honest enquiries hanging in the air. 'tis difficult not to feel neglected.

 

Working inside motion was always going to be something I wanted to install in my model of no.171; it is visible between the frames and - in 21mm gauge, at least - there is plenty of room to fit it in.

 

However, it turns out that, being originally built by Beyer Peacock & Co., "S" class drawings are held in the archives of the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry. I discovered this by pure accident when a small JPEG image popped up during a Google search. Following the link took me to MMSI, and a larger image which is clearly the "S" class engineering drawing. Praise the Lord, it is a cross-sectional view and even shows the inside motion and cranks in some detail.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=10386&d=1385836285

 

One thing that was also clarified was that the frame outlines of the SSM kit are very close to the original drawing - previously I had thought the kit frames were weak - so a lot of care will be needed to install the mounts for the sprung suspension.

 

I am now going to have to invest at least fifty quid in an A0-size working copy, supplied by the Museum - assuming of course that they can scan one...... That's almost as much as I paid for the kit!! :((

Edited by Horsetan
Testing photo link; not working properly

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Ivan first of all it is great to see you posting again. I was really into the build of the model and it is good to know that you will be able to continue to build the model the way you want to.

 

That was a touch finding the drawings through the MMSI. £50 does sound very steep, but that is part of the cost sometimes in the hobby. I look forward to seeing things progress once more.

 

Rich,

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I got my SLNCR large tank GA drawing from Manchester. Paid 20 quid for a CD instead and then did my own simplified drawing. Good way of getting to know the subject.

Am sure what ever you pay will be worth it. 21mm gauge and inside motion always deserves to succeed.

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Incidentally, all of the earlier build photos that I put in my posts are not showing up now when I view this thread via my PC, yet they are visible on iPad or Windows Mobile.

 

*scratches head, puzzled*

 

 

Ivan first of all it is great to see you posting again. I was really into the build of the model and it is good to know that you will be able to continue to build the model the way you want to.

 

That was a touch finding the drawings through the MMSI. £50 does sound very steep, but that is part of the cost sometimes in the hobby. I look forward to seeing things progress once more.

 

Rich:

 

The footplate/cab/splashers are up, and I was wondering whether to press ahead with the smokebox, boiler and firebox anyway, as they have no effect on the chassis.

 

I can't properly start the chassis until I have the drawings, as I have to see what's involved with the cylinders and inside motion, as much will need to be formed from scratch. I am wondering whether I could adapt one of Martin Finney's inside motion kits - the LSWR T9 motion set looks closest in terms of the crank webs and eccentrics.

 

David:

 

Half the problem for me of printing a drawing from a CD image is that the resulting print may not be to a consistent scale. Also, my printer can only do A4 size. I'd prefer to have a working drawing from the start, large enough to see everything, and then scale off that.

Edited by Horsetan

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