NIR 112/078

[Fowler4f]

NIR 112 on EBay @£360. 078 in all over Grey @£350. The world has gone mad !

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

Yep totally agree 

[Fowler4f]

112 @£380, 071 @£370. 

[DJ Dangerous]

[Fowler4f]

071 in all over Grey sold @£510 !!! 

[DJ Dangerous]

1 minute ago, Fowler4f said:

071 in all over Grey sold @£510 !!! 

€600 in real money, plus import taxes and shipping!

When are the IRM 071's due out???

Edited January 21, 2023 by DJ Dangerous
Spelling

[Fowler4f]

1 minute ago, DJ Dangerous said:

€600 in real money, plus import taxes and shpping!

When are the IRM 071's due out???

That’s without sound another £125. I can’t wait  

Edited January 21, 2023 by Fowler4f

[Fowler4f]

8112 sold @£520 ! I give up.

[mmie353]

2 more have popped up:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144904062270?hash=item21bcf4853e:g:u4sAAOSwdUFjzDyi&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoKo6eVMyjDhJm5jmv91D%2BFrFkqUaf8Ur%2FsDQ%2BEImlgTIUeGzvcTbfxLqVgxu5EKWIB3N4cvGrfuXVycJplKpfcBvH%2B5%2FyQVg8cN6niiYxm7c%2FYYVx79n%2Fds6CdMTFAeq2sly7jYpKhR6zyu9IcVct0T9hvrY%2FULh3wFQL%2BNsk83P710%2BUIedBsBp4oDYJWaP5L2LTNWzFldIZCW9JNmg37o%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7jjhuC6YQ

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144904062269?hash=item21bcf4853d:g:cvAAAOSwsj1jzD9m&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoOXQXy3fUB9s%2BBIY%2FAY40I1ptYX7n7BqZFfy8BYjxl41WX98CbrjTokkbNHAuxRQWhcQMsXBk7ay%2Bb2QeerWlCgvKsH5i2GUxi9Z8fOstGcoE6NVESA1XwNN3VjprZvuJ02qvFuDlOsO7jz7SFUexvZGjXtb6qcr%2FqU9s3iMsz4gquobz7mB2EBx%2B%2BD1c9iFAW%2BssJPFTHpaFaFONg%2FHijI%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7jjhuC6YQ

[Fowler4f]

A starting price of £500 is rather excessive. Pushing your luck !

[StevieB]

When similar have sold for that price, it’s an obvious, if excessive, starting point.

Stephen

[JasonB]

Why are these prices a constant topic of discussion on here. We are all aware it's excessive. If someone decides to chance their arm, and sell for that price, and another decides to buy, what business is it of anyone else. 

[leslie10646]

34 minutes ago, JasonB said:

Why are these prices a constant topic of discussion on here. We are all aware it's excessive. If someone decides to chance their arm, and sell for that price, and another decides to buy, what business is it of anyone else. 

You're right of course. Caveat Emptor.

I note it's not even sound fitted!

Mine was from Gareth of the erstwhile Belfast Model Shop. Great sound effects.

[DJ Dangerous]

1 hour ago, JasonB said:

Why are these prices a constant topic of discussion on here. We are all aware it's excessive. If someone decides to chance their arm, and sell for that price, and another decides to buy, what business is it of anyone else. 

 

I think it's the wow factor.

Free market, buyer beware and all that, people can do what they want with their models behind closed doors, but I personaly find the prices funny.

We know that IRM will run more A's at some stage. We know, despite being warned several times that it would never happen, that Paddy is running more 141's / 181's.

So it's inevitable that we'll have more 071's one day. They'll probably be €200 odd brand new, just as lovely as Paddy's original 071's but with higher spec and more modern features.

Knock the VAT off for those living in exile like me, and you have a new 071 for €160, a quarter of what that one went for.

And I just find that funny, makes me smile. That said, I did pay over the odds for a BNIB 112 last year, so my hands aren't clean!

[Ironroad]

11 hours ago, JasonB said:

Why are these prices a constant topic of discussion on here. We are all aware it's excessive. If someone decides to chance their arm, and sell for that price, and another decides to buy, what business is it of anyone else. 

It's hard to ignore and it should be a matter of concern.  It encourages some to speculatively  purchase new releases on a large scale and has the effect of squeezing people out of of the hobby. While I appreciate that the likes of IRM have a commercial need to clear production runs as quickly as possible, I have wondered how aware are they of significant orders and whether they might consider it prudent to place limits when it is obvious an order is not normal.  It also has to be acknowledged that this would be beyond the control of Murphy Models since they distribute via the trade.

The real solution is more frequent reruns.

[murphaph]

34 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

It's hard to ignore and it should be a matter of concern.  It encourages some to speculatively  purchase new releases on a large scale and has the effect of squeezing people out of of the hobby. While I appreciate that the likes of IRM have a commercial need to clear production runs as quickly as possible, I have wondered how aware are they of significant orders and whether they might consider it prudent to place limits when it is obvious an order is not normal.  It also has to be acknowledged that this would be beyond the control of Murphy Models since they distribute via the trade.

The real solution is more frequent reruns.

That would be very difficult to police I guess. I know at least two members on here who buy large quantities of new locos etc. and they are all for personal use. I'm sure there are more. They might sell the odd item later but they weren't bought speculatively. I have sold a few bits recently that I bought as fallbacks. I want to model ca 1995 but as I came back into the hobby late I mostly missed the IE mk2d's, only managing to get 1 rake together from various sources, before the prices went out of my (wife's) budget. So I bought some ST ones instead, thinking I will be able to add the lining and whatnot to make them suitable. Then PM announced the run of IR mk2d's with 21mm bogies as standard, so I sold all my ST stuff. I don't know how much PM is going to charge for the new run, so I sold my stock for what the market would bear. All the money will be going back into future releases. I did the same with the initial fert run, bought two rakes but then the fert were re-run and I bought those instead. I will eventually sell one of my original run duplicate rakes. At the time I simply didn't know that we could more or less reckon with re-runs every few years from IRM. I don't buy duplicates from IRM anymore because of this. I don't buy duplicate locos at all because of the cost but I will buy some duplicate mk2d's as the rerun is unlikely any time soon. PM has a different business model.

The lesson here is, buy anything you even think you might want when it is on sale retail. You will be able to recoup what you paid if you change your mind. The market seems to grow with each new locomotive release. I expect the baby GM re-run will bring yet more people into the hobby, who will then start scouring the second hand market for rolling stock and so the cycle continues. It's tough for the newcomers but patience is a virtue. 

[JasonB]

35 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

It's hard to ignore and it should be a matter of concern.  It encourages some to speculatively  purchase new releases on a large scale and has the effect of squeezing people out of of the hobby. While I appreciate that the likes of IRM have a commercial need to clear production runs as quickly as possible, I have wondered how aware are they of significant orders and whether they might consider it prudent to place limits when it is obvious an order is not normal.  It also has to be acknowledged that this would be beyond the control of Murphy Models since they distribute via the trade.

The real solution is more frequent reruns.

Sorry, but you're missing my point. I couldn't care less about individuals bulk buying, and others then paying over the odds for a model, that's their choice. 

As I said in my post, everybody is aware these prices are excessive, yet it's constantly discussed on here as if it's a shock, it's not, it's a regular occurrence. 

[murphaph]

If folks come into the hobby they should seek out the information that is available mostly on this forum about upcoming releases. I don't have an awful lot of sympathy for folks who just go on eBay and bid like crazy for instant gratification. I have been guilty of this on one occasion in the past when I paid €250 for a baby GM (it was the most I ever paid for a loco by a good margin and I bought it because it was the last of the 9 tippex babies so I thought, feck it) but I didn't feel ripped off or anything. The seller didn't force me to buy it. I would not have expected him to sell it to me for less.

But these two 071s that finished up yesterday are record breakers are they not? The 112 finished up at €593. Is that not the most ever paid (publicly) for one of these? I don't recall one going for this much before. ISTR €450 being the ceiling previously. So there's the interest from that perspective, the "how high can prices go" perspective. I am always curious to see what stuff goes for. I always watch Irish stuff almost out of morbid curiosity so I understand these threads and get a bit of enjoyment of of them if I'm honest

 

[DJ Dangerous]

1 hour ago, Ironroad said:

whether they might consider it prudent to place limits when it is obvious an order is not normal.

The real solution is more frequent reruns.

But what about traders, even small traders, who buy from IRM?

Or what about people who want to re-number locos?

Say, somebody who wanted a fleet of ten of the most recent configuration A Class...

Their only option would be to buy and re-number, or wait for IRM to re-run two new ones every three years.

And as soon as IRM re-run something, people complain because they're re-running instead of running something new, as if the two are in direct competition.

Or what about somebody who has a few bob and decides to price-gouge?

It's the downside of the open market, that somebody can come along and buy up a whole run, then sell it for twice the price, but it is their right.

The only real solution is be patient and don't pay above the odds.

Responsibility lies  with the buyer.

I think that I paid €225 each for three 141's to @Look-its-evan / @evankelly260996, which was way above the odds, but as with @murphaph, they were a few that I had wanted for a while.

If I had been patient, I could have picked the same locos up for far less six or twelve months later.

And yes, that IS true - screenshot of my last 141 purchase attached as proof.

 

 

[Ironroad]

Cannot disagree with what is being said but I would point out that even a supermarket can place a limit on the quantity you may purchase of any particular product.

I'm also guilty of snapping up but not excessively more than I probably need and will ultimately settle on and I have disposed of surpluses, but always at a  fair price even to the point of accepting a loss. I don't view my purchases as investments.  

My concern is, and it should be of concern to all of us, is purchasing for speculative purposes and that is something that should be obvious to vendors. 

[Ironroad]

3 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

But what about traders, even small traders, who buy from IRM?

Or what about people who want to re-number locos?

 

Is IRM is a direct to customer online retailer or not ?  If they sell to traders it should be with the understanding that they cannot exceed the recommended selling price and the traders margin is dictated by the trade price from IRM.  That's how Murphy Models operate. 

The quantities required by those who want extras to renumber etc. would hardly be great enough to raise a red flag.

[Basil]

19 hours ago, JasonB said:

Why are these prices a constant topic of discussion on here. We are all aware it's excessive. If someone decides to chance their arm, and sell for that price, and another decides to buy, what business is it of anyone else. 

Because record prices are inherently notable.

Some want to discuss it, even if there is little/nothing new to be said.

Unfortunately a 'bouyant' resale market absolutely affects those of us trying to purchase effected models.

 

edit: affect/effect 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Basil

[JasonB]

1 hour ago, Basil said:

Some want to discuss it, even if there is little/nothing new to be said.

Fine, discuss away. 

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

13 minutes ago, JasonB said:

Fine, discuss away. 

Gee thanks 

[JasonB]

26 minutes ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

Gee thanks 

You're welcome. 

[Fowler4f]

The same model loco 112 sold on EBay a week before for £185. Horses for courses !

Edited January 22, 2023 by Fowler4f

[murphaph]

I don't believe it sold. I think it was withdrawn. 

[DJ Dangerous]

16 hours ago, Ironroad said:

Is IRM is a direct to customer online retailer or not ?  If they sell to traders it should be with the understanding that they cannot exceed the recommended selling price and the traders margin is dictated by the trade price from IRM.  That's how Murphy Models operate. 

The quantities required by those who want extras to renumber etc. would hardly be great enough to raise a red flag.

 

Opening up a few cans of worms, there.

Probably not worth the hassle for any manufacturer, limiting how many units each individual can buy, how many units each trader can buy, the prices they can sell them for etc.

If everybody was the same, same circumstances, same overheads, same stage in life etc, same income, same expenses, then grand, we have perfection in a bubble and you can do it, welcome to China and goodbye free market, I guess.

But how could one say, just taking an example, that Marks Models and Chris Dyer are both limited to buying the same quantity and can only sell for the same price?

Better to just keep producing and rely on people to use their heads and not spend too much.

IRM can't win.

IRM launch a new product, people moan because it's not something else.

IRM announce a re-run, people moan because it's not a new product - which they'd probably moan about anyway - see above.

IRM don't put limits on purchases, people moan.

You can be sure people would moan if IRM DID put limits on purchases.

Again, the responsibility lies largely with the buyers, for what they buy, and how they buy it.

Me, I just can't wait to see an announcement in the next few days that we finally have the holy grail, two-tone green Dublin Buses.

Then I can die happy the following week...

But, somebody will be moaning because it's not something else, for sure!

It's not a RS or Jotus model, it's not a KC or KD, it's not some old-timey thing, or whatever.

P.S.: Dear IRM, I'll also accept yellow and blue Dublin Buses, AND cream and blue Dublin buses before the two-tone green, provided I'm not repeating this warning next year.

[spudfan]

On 21/1/2023 at 6:02 PM, Fowler4f said:

071 in all over Grey sold @£510 !!! 

So if "grey" gets you more money, my Mrs should net me a small fortune...

On 22/1/2023 at 11:39 AM, murphaph said:

 

 The 112 finished up at €593. Is that not the most ever paid (publicly) for one of these?

 

I think that went to Inchicore for spare parts.