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jhb171achill
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Its possible your grandfather built the locomotive with outside cylinders for practical purposes.

There may not have been enough space between the frames to build the model as a working  two cylinder inside cylinder cylinder loco with working Stephensons motion, there are some things you cannot scale down.

 

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Posted (edited)

Currently I am going through a huge collection of glass plate negatives of a family farm in Co Offaly over 100 years ago. This is not railway related at all, so no need to post them here - but ONE railway view popped up which is worthy of sharing - my grandfather took this some time about 1910-20. 

Can anyone assist with the location?

The scan doesn't show it, but just barely visible on the left is a stone-based water tower. The stone base is whitewashed.

 

img270.jpg

The Dublin contingent of the family used to go by train to either Nenagh or Birr to stay on the farm during the summer holidays. So it is most likely to be somewhere in that general area, even Ballybrophy. But no concrete info.

Edited by jhb171achill
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Just now, BSGSV said:

I'd guess Roscrea, but not sure. Other local sites don't seem to tally map wise.

Roscrea is certainly very likely. They also went to Killaloe the odd time, but it doesn't look like there. Did Birdhill have a turntable?

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Just now, jhb171achill said:

Roscrea is certainly very likely. They also went to Killaloe the odd time, but it doesn't look like there. Did Birdhill have a turntable?

Birdhill did have a turntable, not at the station. Appears to be up at the divergence of the two single lines, between them.

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1 minute ago, Broithe said:

The terrain in the background at Ballybrophy would be rather less of a 'parkland' aspect.

I agree. The shed should also be next door if it was Bally, and the main line should be in the background.

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These are top quality images, JB, even reproduced via this medium. I’d say the IRRS would fancy these. And you can’t blame him for snapping these. If ever there was a 4-4-0 to lure one away from the GN….

Edited by Galteemore
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20 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Currently I am going through a huge collection of glass plate negatives of a family farm in Co Offaly over 100 years ago. This is not railway related at all, so no need to post them here - but ONE railway view popped up which is worthy of sharing - my grandfather took this some time about 1910-20. 

Can anyone assist with the location?

The scan doesn't show it, but just barely visible on the left is a stone-based water tower. The stone base is whitewashed.

 

img270.jpg

The Dublin contingent of the family used to go by train to either Nenagh or Birr to stay on the farm during the summer holidays. So it is most likely to be somewhere in that general area, even Ballybrophy. But no concrete info.

I'm thinking its Tullow, track fits and the white fence could be the station approach road. The trees look right. The lamp post also fits.  The water tower had dressed stone corners with rough stone infill.

Here is a link to a photo in the IRRS Archive ( You will need to be a member and admitted as a follower of their flickr albums to see it.)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/50359686577/in/photolist-DVboV3-2kx9BSq-2kiuQSS-2kx98vF-2kx8xs4-2jJ37EH-2juYeQU-2ivUfVe-2jJ37E7-2jJ7yje-2jJ31uX-2kZWbv5-2kirhor-2m14HMb-2iPescj-2jqPy3s-2jqPy37/

 

Edited by Irishswissernie
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Tullow’s top of the list, then. I found one more view which I’ll post later but the rest are old family photos.

Must start soon on the “ordinary” negs which are 1935 onwards.

2 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

Those Locos are in right good nick, Well looked after!

Indeed they were!

Inchicore’s heyday….

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9 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

I'm thinking its Tullow, track fits and the white fence could be the station approach road. The trees look right. The lamp post also fits.  The water tower had dressed stone corners with rough stone infill.

Here is a link to a photo in the IRRS Archive ( You will need to be a member and admitted as a follower of their flickr albums to see it.)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/50359686577/in/photolist-DVboV3-2kx9BSq-2kiuQSS-2kx98vF-2kx8xs4-2jJ37EH-2juYeQU-2ivUfVe-2jJ37E7-2jJ7yje-2jJ31uX-2kZWbv5-2kirhor-2m14HMb-2iPescj-2jqPy3s-2jqPy37/

 

VERY well spotted!

I'd say it's certainly Tullow. There's one more view:

 

 

img272.jpg

The lamp is visible in the IRRS shot.

It is certainly Tullow.

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On 28/6/2021 at 1:26 AM, Mayner said:

Its possible your grandfather built the locomotive with outside cylinders for practical purposes.

There may not have been enough space between the frames to build the model as a working  two cylinder inside cylinder cylinder loco with working Stephensons motion, there are some things you cannot scale down.

 

Another reason for doing it as an outside cylindered loco is you don't have fabricate a crank axle.Andy

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11 hours ago, minister_for_hardship said:

It was all spit and polish then.

I remember reading somewhere that shed foremen on the Midland (England) felt the backs of the wheels with white gloves before they released a loco for express passenger duties.

Up to the introduction of the 8  Hour day locomotives were usually allocated to individual crews who took a lot of pride in their machine.  To a degree wages were performance related with bonuses for fuel economy keeping "their loco" in top mechanical condition, drivers sometimes accompanying their loco through the works during heavy overhauls.

Cleaners pay was also performance related on the BNCR(MR NCC) dependent on driver inspection and sign off that a loco was cleaned to an acceptable standard.

There is a story in the Ballymena Lines of a narrow gauge driver whoes usual practice was to place the Cleaners Form against the side tank of a loco before signing it, then throw the signed form into the fire box (in front of the cleaner) if there was the least spec of dirt on the rear of the form.

 

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It was SNCF practice, I think, even after BR abandoned it, for locos to have allocated crews rather than being pooled. This led to rather greater affection as you say, John, by crews for ‘their’ loco.
 

The idea of fuel efficiency reached ridiculous levels in the early days of railway operation, when a form of driving by contract was introduced. Crews on this system had such a fiscal incentive to save fuel that safety valves were tampered with to avoid tell tale blowing off of excess steam. Tragic results ensued, and the practice was banned. In today’s gig economy it doesn’t seem unfeasible to imagine its return….

Edited by Galteemore
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The most useful  work on Irish loco performance is probably ‘ A Decade of Steam’.  In it Drew Donaldson describes these engines as the most perfectly proportioned Irish locos of all  - ‘not a line was out of place’. Speeds in the mid 60s were common enough even in their last years. One was turned out in green to entice the GSW directors to adopt the livery - must have looked a treat. If I ever get the mojo to scratch build another 7mm loco it will be this or a D19…

Edited by Galteemore
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3 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

 

I believe they were no stranger to the 70s on the Cork line.

No 14 the Tullow Engine is a 52 Class or D17 the first Class of Irish express passenger 4-4-0 No 63 is one of the slightly larger and more powerful 60 Class or D14.

The 52 Class(introduced 1883) with their small boiler and firebox may not have been up to sustained high speed running & appear to have been mainly used on secondary main line and branch line duties following the introduction of the 60 Class in 1885.

The 60 Class had a reputation for speed and continued to be used on lighter main line duties on the Southern & DSER sections and piloting Dublin-Cork Expresses until replaced by railcars and diesel locos during the mid-late 1950s.

The 52 Class had a reputation of high speed 60+mph  running on Galway-Tuam trains during the 1950s, while 60 Class No94 was recorded at 74.5mph between Mourne Abbey & Mallow while piloting the Cork-Dublin portion of the Enterprise.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
15 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Senior is out’n’about in the 50s…. There’s always a J15 bumbling about SOMEWHERE……

604854A3-45FF-4690-B4A5-00B4441B08EE.jpeg

Looks like the tender has a chimney!!  Quite a high-sided tender?  Amazing shots JB, even as a GN/BCDR/NCC fan!

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5 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

Did theJ15's have oil burners?
Would live to see a pic

I believe so - but the tender could be off just about any mid-sized locomotive. Must delve…..

There’s neither snail nor white circle on it, so it’s obviously been re-sheep-dipped since oil days….

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7 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

Did theJ15's have oil burners?
Would live to see a pic

images of oil burning engines i found on google quite a lot of engines were changed like 2-6-0 moguls and 4-4-0 engines

 

 

For Sale: Bachmann 32-150w 2-6-0 OO Gauge Special Edition Irish CIE N Class  K1 Loco No383 - For Sale or Wanted - Irish Railway Modeller

 

GS&WR Class 368 - Wikipedia

link to topic on the matter 

 

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