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With the Horsebox finished I've been cracking on with the first of the meat vans.

Lessons from the horsebox build has meant the van is going quicker. Here staged beside the obligatory 5p piece.

1193623168_Meatvan1.thumb.jpg.00f8399c52bc4c9b422e04e0b980d581.jpg

I couldn't resist a shot with the horsebox.

337117781_Meatvan2.thumb.jpg.a729b500b8bff8fe3d2b28413e2bfb16.jpg

I'm planning to finish the first of the meat vans in MGWR livery.

The only photo I've found of a van in this condition is the one in this link:

8 ST PATRICK - Atock MGWR 2-4-0 - built 1870 by Avonside Engine co., Works No.802 - 1890 withdrawn.

I would love to know what the writing on the bottom planks says. It is probably too small to reproduce in 2mm scale. I like to know all the same, any ideas out there?

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19 hours ago, Angus said:

With the Horsebox finished I've been cracking on with the first of the meat vans.

Lessons from the horsebox build has meant the van is going quicker. Here staged beside the obligatory 5p piece.

1193623168_Meatvan1.thumb.jpg.00f8399c52bc4c9b422e04e0b980d581.jpg

I couldn't resist a shot with the horsebox.

337117781_Meatvan2.thumb.jpg.a729b500b8bff8fe3d2b28413e2bfb16.jpg

I'm planning to finish the first of the meat vans in MGWR livery.

The only photo I've found of a van in this condition is the one in this link:

8 ST PATRICK - Atock MGWR 2-4-0 - built 1870 by Avonside Engine co., Works No.802 - 1890 withdrawn.

I would love to know what the writing on the bottom planks says. It is probably too small to reproduce in 2mm scale. I like to know all the same, any ideas out there?

Incredible work! My efforts at etched brass kits in 4mm scale have been ham-fisted disasters, so to see this kind of work in 2mm scale is mind-blowing!

Stay safe and stay well.

Best regards,

Mark

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20 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Looks good. Is the text along the lines of ‘to run in passenger trains’ maybe? 

Hi Galteemore,

The text looks to be two lines long so would be longer.

In the UK it was quite common to have "when empty return to XXXXXX" I was wondering if this was something similar.

I haven't noticed such script on any other Midland vans.

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 Here's my own version of the MGW horse box. Built it from the photo in Des Coakham's book. However, needs a repaint, as I've decided it will run in my 1950s version of Belmullet. Couldn't resist adding a 5p coin, which only goes to show just how tiny [and splendid] Angus's models are. 7mm scale is clearly 3.5 times bigger than 2mm, but volume wise, that rises to 43x overall...

DSCN3549.jpeg

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Hi David,

Those MGWR horseboxes are full of character  what ever the scale. love the 5p! 

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Just now, David Holman said:

 Here's my own version of the MGW horse box. Built it from the photo in Des Coakham's book. However, needs a repaint, as I've decided it will run in my 1950s version of Belmullet. Couldn't resist adding a 5p coin, which only goes to show just how tiny [and splendid] Angus's models are. 7mm scale is clearly 3.5 times bigger than 2mm, but volume wise, that rises to 43x overall...

DSCN3549.jpeg

Amazing model David

is it mad from plaster card?

As for Angus I find it hard to beleive how you can not sea any solder.

Both of you keep It going as at this time we all need some way to chill out.

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Yup, plasticard body MM, while the chassis is a combination of various whitemetal castings.  Angus' 2mm version is a master class in fine soldering. Check out Murrayec's pages too, he has lots of useful tips and the skill level to very high indeed.

 Re Loose End, there are photos on the first page of my Fintonagh thread in the layouts section.

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Posted (edited)

I might as well post a photo of the original 4mm version, I did not have a 5p or $0.20 coin handy when I took the photos, .

DSCF3553.JPG.dea4cb4d60d5658f0bfbcb081a9f7e27.JPGDSCF3565.JPG.c58b60a8010cfe551b42ded18d8c1bbe.JPG

Angus did very well to solder the tiny T strapping & door latches to the Meat/Fish Van, I struggled with them.

Edited by Mayner
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On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2020 at 10:02 PM, Angus said:

I'm planning to finish the first of the meat vans in MGWR livery.

The only photo I've found of a van in this condition is the one in this link:

8 ST PATRICK - Atock MGWR 2-4-0 - built 1870 by Avonside Engine co., Works No.802 - 1890 withdrawn.

I would love to know what the writing on the bottom planks says. It is probably too small to reproduce in 2mm scale. I like to know all the same, any ideas out there?

It will say something to the effect "ONLY TO RUN IN PASSENGER TRAINS".

For modelling purposes, it is painted the same brown as used on carriages, though without lining. Very pale grey (white lead) roof, black chassis and drawgear.  The tiny lettering and "M G W R" will probably be pale yellow.

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Thanks jhb171achill, your sharing of livery knowledge is very much appreciated!

In response to Mayner's difficulties with the van strapping I thought I'd post up my method here in the hope it may be of use to someone.

As with all techniques, it is how I do it, it works for me, there are many other methods.

I say my method, it is actually a tip I picked up from Jim Watt (CaleyJim over on RMweb) who also produces some Caledonian Railway wagon etches in 2mm scale. I've built some of these kits up (seen in the photo below on my UK based layout with the now obligatory 5p piece) and have another dozen or so in the "to do" pile.

8736977_Caleywagons.thumb.jpg.7b96d02853ec246d2f3298a6429d7e7d.jpg

 

The method is to take the etch with the strapping on and shade the areas you don't want to attach on the reverse side with a soft pencil (although HB will do) .

straping.thumb.jpg.de32b3be6c573cf1ebb1430b1bca9930.jpg

Tin the back of the etched strapping with a thin layer of solder.

Having applied a wipe of flux to the strapping and a drop to the van sides where you want the strapping to go you can then use the edges of the etch to position the strapping exactly where you want it, then press down with the hot soldering iron until you hear the sizzle of the flux and see the flash of solder.

The whole etch should now be firm attached. If so cut the strapping from the etch with a sharp craft knife and clean up with a couple of wipes with a fibre brush.

The solder will not adhere to the etch surround due to the pencil shading.

Hope that helps someone and that I'm not teaching granny to suck eggs!

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Most helpful Angus - I can see some applications for the technique in 7mm too. Love the track - a long way from the Setrack and Kato I used as a N modeller !

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12 hours ago, David Holman said:

my Fintonagh thread

Hi David,

Not sure why, but I can't seem to find this - is there a link?

Kind regards,

Mark

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Looked at the tread last night and I have to say the engines are just pure class. In 2018 here was a CVR layout at the Cultra show witch was also class. If the show is on it should be there as well.

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With the arrival today of the springs and axleboxes (a new product form the 2mm scale association using 3d printing) I thought I had finished the meat van.

1139793254_vanandhorsebox.thumb.jpg.6e0834fbfc4d07279f0f4bd855d76037.jpg

Seen here with the horsebox and the now obligatory 5p piece.

Something had bothered me ever since starting the meat van and I now know what it is.

The planking is not etched on the side panels and doors.

As I see it I now have four options:-

Ignore the error  (not something I could live with)

Pen in the planks after painting (not sure I could make a good job of that and make it look effective)

Scribe the planks in the brass on the van (that might have worked with the etch in the flat before  I started, but now it's built I think I would be more likely to bend the etched sides)

Adding the planks on 5 thou plasticard is the favourite.

I've also got a couple of GS&WR six wheeled coaches to build from some Worsley Works etches. I've got a brake 3rd (not a birdcage unfortunately as Allen didn't have any in stock and as the etchers are in lockdown not likely to be in stock in the near future) and a 1st/2nd (1st/3rd in the period modelled) luggage composite. 

1773015351_GSWRcarriageetches.thumb.jpg.487d481e37317744d8c81446bb183b36.jpg

I'll start with the composite as I don't need to deal with those awkward lookouts.

I've yet to find any drawings for the GS&WR six wheeled coaches, I've plenty for the MGWR equivalents, can anyone point me in the direction of some? 

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I feel I should point out that the missing planks on the meat van is not Mayner's error. The planks are present on the artwork so have been missed by the etchers.

I am grateful to Mayner for reducing these etches to 2mm scale for me and they do produce excellent results.

As there were so few copies (three of each van, two for me one for another 2mm scale Irish modeller) it wasn't cost effect to do a test etch which would have revealed the error. I was willing to take the risk that everything wasn't perfect.

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Posted (edited)

The coach is coming along nicely.

The first job after forming the sides is to cut out some partitions from brass. Experience has shown that these are needed to give the shell some strength otherwise it is all too easy to bend the sides of the body inwards whilst handling. They are easier to make at this stage as the etched ends provided can be used a pattern.

224981832_6wcoachbuild1.thumb.jpg.4f0c91d828dc62b85a5d366197bbfb8a.jpg

The main shell and chassis is now complete (barring detailing), I just need to work out a way to consistently form the complex shaped handgrabs.

1568027986_6wcoachbuild2.thumb.jpg.4fcbe983fd9f5c82da884ae18b1ef3f8.jpg

I'm just using plain wheels as I think the carriages lost their original Mansell wheels prior to the GSR merger. I certainly cannot see any in the photos available of the period.

The Cleminson chassis goes together nicely and will hopefully make for a good running model.

1201600311_6wcoachbuild3.thumb.jpg.97694a147ff61b9dc1281c6f2e165e93.jpg

Unfortunately the supplied roof is not wide enough, but it is a small job to cut out a new one.

One question though, As originally built these carriages were oil lit and by GSR days they appear to have been converted to Gas.

There a re a couple of nice roof shots around with show Pintsch gas lights with torpedo vents above each compartment, but I can't distinguish any gas tanks under the chassis in any pictures.

As I haven't been able to find a drawing I'm struggling to know what to model for these, can anyone offer any enlightenment?

Thanks

Angus

Edited by Angus
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 Can anyone offer any enlightenment?

You got to love it troops!

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Posted (edited)

Aren’t you just gas, Dave! 

Angus - have looked through my MGWR drawings and can’t see anything. My understanding of Pintsch gas though, is that it was carried in a longitudinal cylinder underneath the carrriage.

Edited by Galteemore
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Hi Galteemore,

I did think of looking at the MGWR drawings but wanted to work of GS&WR in case of any difference.

I do have enough carriage drawings to make something effective, and, given the lack of visible detail on photos probably sufficient. 

 

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Gas generally was carried in longitudinal tanks as noted by Galteemore - you can see still see the tanks on the RPSI's 861. (Worth noting that 861 has never been lit by electricity in all of its years of traffic !). I think Downpatricks 836 may have been fitted with Gas at least initially when it was restored but is now electric. As noted gas was usually contained in long cylinders parallel to the track mounted to the underframe of the carriages. I imagine on a six wheeler the tank was roughly 1.5ft dia x 5/6ft or so. Depending on the level of detail you wish to go into there would be a gauge mounted on the solebar of the chassis above the tank. 

LE 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Lough Erne said:

Gas generally was carried in longitudinal tanks as noted by Galteemore - you can see still see the tanks on the RPSI's 861. (Worth noting that 861 has never been lit by electricity in all of its years of traffic !). I think Downpatricks 836 may have been fitted with Gas at least initially when it was restored but is now electric. As noted gas was usually contained in long cylinders parallel to the track mounted to the underframe of the carriages. I imagine on a six wheeler the tank was roughly 1.5ft dia x 5/6ft or so. Depending on the level of detail you wish to go into there would be a gauge mounted on the solebar of the chassis above the tank. 

LE 

GSW No. 836 at Downpatrick was indeed gas lit, and when restored the entire gas fittings were restored too. While possible to operate today, it would involve extra and unnecessary H & S compliance for the gas. It's there, in case anyone ever wants it, though, and would take little to put into working order.

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Its getting on for two weeks since I posted anything and things have been progressing slowly.

I bought some springs and axle boxes that duly arrived and were fitted. The handrails on the body are slow getting installed with just the door grabs, handle and lower hinges to fit.

I also need to build a jig to hold the lower footboards and the solebar in line whilst I solder in the supports,  I did have a go free hand but the failure was inevitable!

233741032_6wcoachbuild4.thumb.jpg.25298f0483a38d281531129fb113a7f3.jpg

I'm sure I've got a stock of gas light tops somewhere, but they are evading me at present. As Etched Pixels is shut for the lockdown I ordered a 100 from their Shapeways shop.

1270993383_Lamptops.thumb.jpg.9c531f08319431a66e470433693824dc.jpg

These should keep me in stock for a while, in fairness I do have a stash of British pre-grouping carriages in the gloat box to build so can find a home for them.

With these lamp tops installed the replacement roof is nearly finished.

1985860690_6wcoachbuildroof.thumb.jpg.5ad40986a9b6dbeb6b8d5d4965e0660f.jpg

I just need to add the gas pipes in some 0.1mm wire once the roof is fitted.

As I was placing an order with Shapeways I also took the plunge and bought the MGWR brake 3rd carraige that has been the subject of some discussion in another topic on this site.

Buying it lessened the pain of Shapeways postage costs.

As it arrived:-

1822443242_MGWRbrakethirdclear.thumb.jpg.afd000e690669d38254f9a2ea9fe7110.jpg

In this form the plastic is quite soft and there is still some of the support wax present. Following advice of others (I had done this before) I scrubbed the surface with a toothbrush and washing up liquid before dunking the body in a bath of white spirit for an hour. Left overnight the body turns white. It is now quite hard and easier to sand. You can also see the surface clearly to work on.

186511718_MGWRbrakethirdwhite.thumb.jpg.569b7ac74705d8e32f658ab9d4fd603b.jpg

The body appears dimensionally correct and captures the lines of the carriage well the buffers seem a bit over scale (a scale 18" across the face) but easily replaced with some turned ones from N-Brass.

As I feared though the surface striation is quite bad.

1885950432_MGWRbrakethirdsides.thumb.jpg.a5c4c14edcecc1e186a0534ca7052108.jpg260370378_MGWRbrakethirdroof.thumb.jpg.ed439fb0d7085bb5d0e96c4f06da34b7.jpg 

Without care I'll be losing a lot of the side detail. The doors will need re-scribing at the very least. Please bare in mind this is 2mm scale, in larger scale the striation will appear less worse.

I had planned just to use the body and fit this to a Worsley Works brass chassis (as provided for the GSWR 6 wheelers) with the wheelbase lengthened to replicate the MGWR's 10' wheelbase.

Now I've got the print I think rigid axles in the front and rear with a lightly sprung middle axle with some sideways float will be simple to install and work.

In other news I've started the Lurganboy box. I always set up a box for long builds that I can add components to as I purchase them and store parts as they are made.

293415911_Lurganboybox1.thumb.jpg.a5bf7ee5becbfa9d00ce6a49fe11ee93.jpg

Wheels, motor, gears (1:38 although I might replace these with 1:30 on account of the small wheels), buffers, brakes, handrail nobs all in box so far.

I've also cut the chassis blanks (0.7mm phosphor bronze), the buffer beams, boiler and smokebox ring, as metal has been cut I suppose I have, in all reality, started the build.

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Interesting stuff. I must look into get about 2 of them and buy one of the JM design G2s but I have a to do list which I realy want to get down to the bottom of. To make a 1960s themed railrour you need one of those and 2 park royals with a 2 rebuilt J15s. The livery would be black an tan.

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Thanks Murrayec, I know you should not model of a model but I can only assume SSM had some provenance for those tanks when designing the kit.

I was going to use the LNWR design for their 30" 1' 6 wheelers as there is some nice detailed plans in the LNWR society's book on the carriages.

These plans show a pair of tanks 9' long and 13" diameter mounted over the centre axle, so clearly would have been wrong for the GS&WR.

Edited by Angus
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7 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Lovely work Angus.Looking forward to seeing Lurganboy grow !

Thanks Galteemore, It'll be a slow growth, I want to finish the carriages first. In between times I will be cutting components to add the the box, tanks sides, cabs etc.

That way when I start in anger it should come together quickly, always assuming I've cut the parts the right size to start with (not always gauranteed!)

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I re-moulded the tanks just a bit smaller than what came with the kit to allow the middle axle better movement, I could not find any photos of an actual 6 wheeler that showed the tanks!

Eoin

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Hate to say it the striation is just as bad in 4mm i've got one sitting on the workbench at the moment a good argument for etched brass i'm afraidespecially as its sharing the workbench with a rake of Worsley DNGR 6 wheelers.Andy. 

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Hi Andy,

I feel your pain (or will do when I start the sanding process). I have bought a couple of things from Shapeways so knew what to expect. As there is no etched brass kit for the MGWR carriages and the shape of the brake 3rd is relatively complex I reasoned starting with the 3D print would be quicker than scratch building.

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