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51 minutes ago, Angus said:

As I was placing an order with Shapeways I also took the plunge and bought the MGWR brake 3rd carraige that has been the subject of some discussion in another topic on this site.

Buying it lessened the pain of Shapeways postage costs.

As it arrived:-

1822443242_MGWRbrakethirdclear.thumb.jpg.afd000e690669d38254f9a2ea9fe7110.jpg

In this form the plastic is quite soft and there is still some of the support wax present. Following advice of others (I had done this before) I scrubbed the surface with a toothbrush and washing up liquid before dunking the body in a bath of white spirit for an hour. Left overnight the body turns white. It is now quite hard and easier to sand. You can also see the surface clearly to work on.

186511718_MGWRbrakethirdwhite.thumb.jpg.569b7ac74705d8e32f658ab9d4fd603b.jpg

The body appears dimensionally correct and captures the lines of the carriage well the buffers seem a bit over scale (a scale 18" across the face) but easily replaced with some turned ones from N-Brass.

As I feared though the surface striation is quite bad.

1885950432_MGWRbrakethirdsides.thumb.jpg.a5c4c14edcecc1e186a0534ca7052108.jpg260370378_MGWRbrakethirdroof.thumb.jpg.ed439fb0d7085bb5d0e96c4f06da34b7.jpg 

Without care I'll be losing a lot of the side detail. The doors will need re-scribing at the very least. Please bare in mind this is 2mm scale, in larger scale the striation will appear less worse.

 

3 minutes ago, Andy Cundick said:

Hate to say it the striation is just as bad in 4mm i've got one sitting on the workbench at the moment a good argument for etched brass i'm afraidespecially as its sharing the workbench with a rake of Worsley DNGR 6 wheelers.Andy. 

Although I dislike making negative comments, I have to concur.

This particular manufacturer has many items listed that I would be most interested in. However, a couple of years ago I ordered some narrow gauge War Department Class D bogie wagons for an Ashover Light Railway layout project. The models when they arrived were terribly striated and the surface details were very poorly defined.

Unfortunately, this supplier's models seem to only be available in one single type of material, which I've been informed isn't ideal for fine detail, and so I've made a conscious decision to not order from him again.

Kind regards,

Mark

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Likewise, I agree.

Many small manufacturers need our support, and even if an offering isn't truly perfect, best to be careful about just slagging them off.

I had investigated these things too - if they were half decent I'd have half a dozen of the 2nd & 3rd class equivalents of the above. But they're very rough indeed - and I had been advised this by others. A pity, because as you say they have some nice stuff.

I have an interest in various foreign railways too, and Shapeways do some items from these which would also have interested me, but even their illustrations show they're too coarse. I'll make no further comment on them, as I am conscious that to some they're OK, and it's a free world!

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1 hour ago, 2996 Victor said:

 

Although I dislike making negative comments, I have to concur.

This particular manufacturer has many items listed that I would be most interested in. However, a couple of years ago I ordered some narrow gauge War Department Class D bogie wagons for an Ashover Light Railway layout project. The models when they arrived were terribly striated and the surface details were very poorly defined.

Unfortunately, this supplier's models seem to only be available in one single type of material, which I've been informed isn't ideal for fine detail, and so I've made a conscious decision to not order from him again.

Kind regards,

Mark

3D printing is a kind of chicken and egg situation Shapeways attracts  a large number of amateur designers but their printing technology is not really suitable for small scale model railways. 

Rapid prototyping companies have more suitable technology for our purposes https://www.3dpeople.uk/sla-3d-printing but you need to either develop the skills to produce the CAD work yourself, find a friendly designer or pay for professional cad work.

Edited by Mayner
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Really interesting and certainly reflects what I have seen of 3D printed models. Indeed, the only smooth finish I've witnessed have been those done by Mark Clark. He advertises in Narrow Lines (7mm NG Society Magazine) and as a Chatham Club member has given several demonstrations to us. Mark has experimented widely with different 3D printers as they have come on to the market. However - and this remains the big caveat with 3D - even a small item can take half an hour to print and this grows exponentially with size, while the start up cost for something like a loco body is around the thousand pounds mark from a commercial point of view. Am sure there are others out there doing just as well too.

 For me, batch building in plasticard, or resin casting from my own masters are still preferable. Indeed, done carefully, the finish I've got from resin is excellent, you just have to make sure the air bubbles come to the surface and are pricked out with a fine reamer. Resin picks up the finest surface details, including putting in wood grain with a glass fibre brush. It is cheap too. £40 worth of resin makes a lot of wagon sides and ends. Check my CVR brake vans on Fintonagh. Note, this is not a sales plug, I only make stuff for myself, I mention it merely to suggest there are homespun alternatives worth looking into.

 At the end of the day, we choose what we want to do and all power to the 3D and CAD modellers, who are opening up new avenues to explore. Likewise laser cutters and the like. Etched and laser cut kits are light years ahead of hand drawn stuff of the last century and I for one am very grateful. Enjoy what you do, including solving problems along the way - the latter is a given in our hobby methinks!

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On 4/22/2020 at 7:57 PM, Angus said:

Thanks jhb171achill, your sharing of livery knowledge is very much appreciated!

In response to Mayner's difficulties with the van strapping I thought I'd post up my method here in the hope it may be of use to someone.

As with all techniques, it is how I do it, it works for me, there are many other methods.

I say my method, it is actually a tip I picked up from Jim Watt (CaleyJim over on RMweb) who also produces some Caledonian Railway wagon etches in 2mm scale. I've built some of these kits up (seen in the photo below on my UK based layout with the now obligatory 5p piece) and have another dozen or so in the "to do" pile.

8736977_Caleywagons.thumb.jpg.7b96d02853ec246d2f3298a6429d7e7d.jpg

 

The method is to take the etch with the strapping on and shade the areas you don't want to attach on the reverse side with a soft pencil (although HB will do) .

straping.thumb.jpg.de32b3be6c573cf1ebb1430b1bca9930.jpg

Tin the back of the etched strapping with a thin layer of solder.

Having applied a wipe of flux to the strapping and a drop to the van sides where you want the strapping to go you can then use the edges of the etch to position the strapping exactly where you want it, then press down with the hot soldering iron until you hear the sizzle of the flux and see the flash of solder.

The whole etch should now be firm attached. If so cut the strapping from the etch with a sharp craft knife and clean up with a couple of wipes with a fibre brush.

The solder will not adhere to the etch surround due to the pencil shading.

Hope that helps someone and that I'm not teaching granny to suck eggs!

Crikey look at that Dirigible! Love the RE.8 underneath too. Is that a Scratch build jobbie. 

I take it it has just popped out of the Hangar on the left, any links to this Layout?

 

 

Edited by Georgeconna
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3 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

Crikey look at that Dirigible! Love the RE.8 underneath too. Is that a Scratch build jobbie. 

I take it it has just popped out of the Hangar on the left, any links to this Layout?

Hi Georgeconna,

Thanks for your interest. The control car is a BE2 as used in the original SS class dirigibles in 1916. The control car is a white metal kit adapted to represent control car modifications. The remainder is scratch built.

The layout has been documented over on RMweb:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/109742-rnas-glencruitten-relocating-lenabo/

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Banwy models who do a range  of Welshpool prototypes in 3d are a good example of what can be done .The cattle trucks and bolsters needed no fettling  just fit couplings and wheels and away we go.Andy.

14 hours ago, Mayner said:

3D printing is a kind of chicken and egg situation Shapeways attracts  a large number of amateur designers but their printing technology is not really suitable for small scale model railways. 

Rapid prototyping companies have more suitable technology for our purposes https://www.3dpeople.uk/sla-3d-printing but you need to either develop the skills to produce the CAD work yourself, find a friendly designer or pay for professional cad work.

 

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2 hours ago, Andy Cundick said:

Banwy models who do a range  of Welshpool prototypes in 3d are a good example of what can be done .The cattle trucks and bolsters needed no fettling  just fit couplings and wheels and away we go.

I wonder if they could be persuaded to broaden their horizons slightly.....😉

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After about three hours of careful sanding last night, mostly using a toothpick which was surprisingly effective, I was left with this

1514566626_mgwrbrakethirdpostsanding.thumb.jpg.b46441598346d0f780860b903977b704.jpg

Whilst not perfect it is a lot better than when it arrived. 

After re-scribing the doors and  a blast of primer:

781291845_mgwrbrakethirdprimer.thumb.jpg.e152d1fd6f17858d227bac488c425bbb.jpg

All in all I'm fairly happy. I might have a last go at smoothing out if the mood takes me. Please bare in mind the carriage is 2mm scale so reproduced here at lest a couple of times bigger than actual.

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Looks rather good to me. Can't have been easy trying to sand such a tiny item but the primer/witness coat says it was a success, especially as it is just 60mm long! Major blemishes will stick out like a sore thumb in anything that size, so very well done.

 If be interested to know how long it takes to get a 3D print to this stage, compared with building a kit (assuming one exists), or indeed a scratch build. Either way though, can't help thinking that a rake of these is going to look splendid.

 

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2 hours ago, David Holman said:

If be interested to know how long it takes to get a 3D print to this stage

Hi David,

It has taken me a shade under 4 hours to get to this stage, albeit I bought the print rather than design it myself. If you factor the CADing up then I suspect this would stretch to a couple of days depending on your CAD skills.

That said, if you had the CAD file other print options open up to you that have less cleaning up work but the printing is slower and not suited to any kind of batch production.

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I had a play around with the backscene for the layout today.

The original intention was the layout would be viewed from the rear of the station with the station building, goods shed and signal box all acting as view blockers for the fiddle yard exits.

This works (apologies for the poor photos the sun was coming in the window behind)

1664343643_Dromahairbackmock1.thumb.jpg.bc455a600492e12b3ffed93a70c596d1.jpg

189023257_Dromahairbackmock2.thumb.jpg.907edb5d200d2a9fb7208abba25069dd.jpg

This has the disadvantage of not being able to see the wheels of any stock as the platforms prevent this.

Up to now I have been presenting the layout in the more traditional front view.

1310224164_Dromahairfrontmock.thumb.jpg.c35c2eafe12bb0df64b18d60afa4b1c8.jpg

Obviously here there is no view blocker  for the fiddle yard exits from the mainline, there is also a bank in front of the station that might look a bit odd in this view. 

Still not convinced which is better though, any opinions out there?

The mock up of the station building is scaled from various photos, it looks way too tall but I've double checked the measurements, if the is an error it is only a mm or so.

I'll need to draw on the windows and dividing line between the stone lower and rendered upper floor to see if breaking up the surface change the appearance.

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Looking good Angus. Traditional it may be but the front view offers a bit more scope for detailing - as you know, the area under the canopy at Dromahair is rather rich in poster boards, barrows and scales. Unlike Manorhamilton and Glenfarne, the ‘street frontage’ at Dromahair is most uninspiring as it was basically the back of a rather plain house - no elaborate door, canopy or such - photo taken last summer. The level crossing etc at the Ballygawley end might offer some scope for trompe l’oeil distractions. At the Lisgorman end, a telegraph pole and some verdancy might serve...

1BB9C7AB-4849-42B7-A41C-8DED411859BA.jpeg

Edited by Galteemore
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As Galteemore says better scope for details, maybe use half cut trees as  view blocks to the sides, also you could have the trees come out over the front of the baseboard and even wrap around over the edge of the side back-scene board?

Looking good

Eoin

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Hopefully the station house looks bigger because it is so stark, so a bit of work with felt pens or crayons should soften it. If not, as Eoin and David suggest, trees should help balance the scene. Ideally similar height objects at either end will balance the view. Current thinking favours curved corners to the backscene, though again, trees or buildings can hide these. Presumably, there will be a fascia to help hide the holes in the sky?

 Great to get an insight into the overall project too.

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  • 11 months later...
Posted (edited)

Well it's nearly a year since any progress on Dromahair but work is back underway.

To be honest, the module's future was looking doubtful for a while. It was being built for the 2mm Scale Association's Diamond Jubilee Layout competition originally scheduled to be judged at the Association's annual meet in June 2020, this was rescheduled for June 2021 which was also cancelled.

The competition was aimed at building something as either a toe in the water for newcomers to the scale or letting modellers try something new, hence the opportunity to try something Irish in 10.5mm gauge.

The module is only 600mm long so not something I would ordinarily build, a bigger layout would take more commitment and cause more distraction from other modelling activity so my Irish modelling stalled.

A few things have conspired to change this, firstly a fellow 2mm modeller gifted me his Irish stock and components recognising he would get around to doing anything meaningful with them so I feel honour bound to use them, secondly the competition has been rescheduled for June 2022. Finally I was surprise to see this little model mentioned in some esteemed company over on RMweb in a list of 5' 3" scale gauge models. I naturally felt obliged to to start up again. 

So where are we?

898075724_ModuleoverviewMay21.thumb.jpg.029e6b188e8932a787f54becec2f6fd6.jpg

The backscene is in position but needs the corners filling in, ultimately integral lighting will be added, I'm still working this out.

The platform facing was also catching on passing stock as there was insufficient clearance, the facing was carefully cut off, thinned down by sanding back then re-glued back on.

All is good.

The C class is a 3D print that was amongst the items gifted to me. I've bought a Tomix chassis that is very nearly scale. (Bogies are correct but the centres are slightly too close together). For the moment I've simply pushed the wheels out to match the gauge, obviously this won't run through pointwork but it was fun to connect up some power and have the loco run along the front of the module.

Testing clearances.....obviously!

Who would have thought the first loco through Dromahair would be a diesel?

224360693_CClasstesting.thumb.jpg.64735f4b34e460d7e7b9747e90aeee63.jpg

The body print is quite nice, although it will need a bit of work to add some detail but should be fun. Although out period I've always had a soft spot for the little diesels.

I had previously posted some concerns regarding the station building dimensions so I set to work with some pens. once the windows are sketched on it is amazing how it all seems to come back into proportion.

433305527_Stationbuildingtest.thumb.jpg.55e0f08e6e34f7aca5a5ed4ce4e3d7e8.jpg

 

 

Edited by Angus
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A bit of progress is being made on finishing some stock already built.

These MGWR vans attracted a bit of attention when first built. 

Inspired by David Holman's recent MGWR mail train build I've decide to finish them in pre-GSR colours. This probably means I'll have to backdate the layout to early GSR days at the least. It would give me the opportunity to run a mix of liveries although the thought of lining out a loco in 2mm does bring on a cold sweat!

1930539251_MGWRvanspainted1.thumb.jpg.389b4548213e52f073b39b41c475e186.jpg

I've just realised I've painted the solebars underframe colour as a steel underframe rather than body colour for a wooden underframe. I'll correct that.

A couple of questions to the audience, is the body colour correct? I believe it should be slightly darker than LMS maroon for late period MGWR which I've tried to capture?

In the UK the wooden centres of the Mansell wheels were sometimes varnished or even painted (on the LNWR newly constructed coaches had varnished centres that were then painted the body lake colour at the first re-paint). Does anyone know what the MGWR practise was? Accepting, of course, being low to the ground the wheel centres would be covered in crud in ordinary operation!

I made reference to being gifted some models from a fellow 2mm scale association member. This included what is described as a CB&SC open wagon.

1082385747_CBSCwagon1.thumb.jpg.9c5c24aaa093477759c126ab61b6e3d9.jpg

The body is scratch built from styrene and is rather exquisite (please bear in mind this is 2mm scale so the body is only 30mm long)

I can't find any details of the wagon (the CB&SCR doesn't appear in my library as it's a bit far south). The wagon scales at 15' in the body with a 9' wheelbase. Also I can't find any CB&SC wagon livery details either, I could always cop out and paint it GSR grey, in which case the undercoat will suffice! I'd be appreciative if anyone can fill in in any of the gaps?

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1 hour ago, Angus said:

A bit of progress is being made on finishing some stock already built.

These MGWR vans attracted a bit of attention when first built. 

Inspired by David Holman's recent MGWR mail train build I've decide to finish them in pre-GSR colours. This probably means I'll have to backdate the layout to early GSR days at the least. It would give me the opportunity to run a mix of liveries although the thought of lining out a loco in 2mm does bring on a cold sweat!

1930539251_MGWRvanspainted1.thumb.jpg.389b4548213e52f073b39b41c475e186.jpg

I've just realised I've painted the solebars underframe colour as a steel underframe rather than body colour for a wooden underframe. I'll correct that.

A couple of questions to the audience, is the body colour correct? I believe it should be slightly darker than LMS maroon for late period MGWR which I've tried to capture?

In the UK the wooden centres of the Mansell wheels were sometimes varnished or even painted (on the LNWR newly constructed coaches had varnished centres that were then painted the body lake colour at the first re-paint). Does anyone know what the MGWR practise was? Accepting, of course, being low to the ground the wheel centres would be covered in crud in ordinary operation!

I made reference to being gifted some models from a fellow 2mm scale association member. This included what is described as a CB&SC open wagon.

1082385747_CBSCwagon1.thumb.jpg.9c5c24aaa093477759c126ab61b6e3d9.jpg

The body is scratch built from styrene and is rather exquisite (please bear in mind this is 2mm scale so the body is only 30mm long)

I can't find any details of the wagon (the CB&SCR doesn't appear in my library as it's a bit far south). The wagon scales at 15' in the body with a 9' wheelbase. Also I can't find any CB&SC wagon livery details either, I could always cop out and paint it GSR grey, in which case the undercoat will suffice! I'd be appreciative if anyone can fill in in any of the gaps?

Some of the grain wagons on thr CBSC were painted in a very nice red for the wood, black for the metal bits and a white lining around the wheels. Granted these were a bit different to what this wagon is, but it was a very spectacular livery. Thats all i can remember from memory!

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Angus said:

A bit of progress is being made on finishing some stock already built.

These MGWR vans attracted a bit of attention when first built. 

Inspired by David Holman's recent MGWR mail train build I've decide to finish them in pre-GSR colours. This probably means I'll have to backdate the layout to early GSR days at the least. It would give me the opportunity to run a mix of liveries although the thought of lining out a loco in 2mm does bring on a cold sweat!

1930539251_MGWRvanspainted1.thumb.jpg.389b4548213e52f073b39b41c475e186.jpg

I've just realised I've painted the solebars underframe colour as a steel underframe rather than body colour for a wooden underframe. I'll correct that.

A couple of questions to the audience, is the body colour correct? I believe it should be slightly darker than LMS maroon for late period MGWR which I've tried to capture?

In the UK the wooden centres of the Mansell wheels were sometimes varnished or even painted (on the LNWR newly constructed coaches had varnished centres that were then painted the body lake colour at the first re-paint). Does anyone know what the MGWR practise was? Accepting, of course, being low to the ground the wheel centres would be covered in crud in ordinary operation!

I made reference to being gifted some models from a fellow 2mm scale association member. This included what is described as a CB&SC open wagon.

1082385747_CBSCwagon1.thumb.jpg.9c5c24aaa093477759c126ab61b6e3d9.jpg

The body is scratch built from styrene and is rather exquisite (please bear in mind this is 2mm scale so the body is only 30mm long)

I can't find any details of the wagon (the CB&SCR doesn't appear in my library as it's a bit far south). The wagon scales at 15' in the body with a 9' wheelbase. Also I can't find any CB&SC wagon livery details either, I could always cop out and paint it GSR grey, in which case the undercoat will suffice! I'd be appreciative if anyone can fill in in any of the gaps?

That is incredible workmanship all round. These are exquisite. What thickness are the sides of the open, Angus?

Edited by Galteemore
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Just been looking back at the 5p pictures to remind myself how tiny these wagons are. Little jewels!

 The two Dublin and Meath brake vans I got from Richard Chown have their wheel centres in varnished wood,meanwhile, am sure it won't be long before our livery guru can advise.

 Going back to the horse box, when you think how small it is, the smallest error will throw the shape of it completely, which only goes to show what a fine model it is.

 Keep 'em coming Angus!

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45 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

What thickness are the sides of the open, Angus?

Hi Galteemore, the wagon has 20thou sides, so 0.5mm or scale 3" thick. 

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2 hours ago, David Holman said:

The two Dublin and Meath brake vans I got from Richard Chown have their wheel centres in varnished wood,

From photographic evidence, Mansell wheels on anything appear to have been varnished wood when new. However after a short time in traffic (like white lead carriage roofs), it was anything but - just a dirty grey / black colour. It is probable they were painted black or grey (depending on body colour, perhaps) at first repaint, as I inspected up to half a dozen samples years ago which were all of either MGWR or GSWR origin, and found what appeared to be black paint under all the gunk.

4 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Some of the grain wagons on thr CBSC were painted in a very nice red for the wood, black for the metal bits and a white lining around the wheels. Granted these were a bit different to what this wagon is, but it was a very spectacular livery. Thats all I can remember from memory!

The Ranks' grain trucks would as you say be a totally different animal, and didn't stay red long; apart from that, I was unaware of them visiting West Cork - if so, a rare visitor, I would think, as grain was carried generally in standard wagons. The CBSCR appears to have generally used a dark grey for all goods stock, somewhat darker than CIE.

Older vehicles, back in CBSCR days - varnished Mansell wheel centres and white-rimmed wheels would have been delivery livery. After only days in traffic, that was no more to be seen! And, as I say, inspections of the real thing plus photos suggest early paint applied to these wooden bits.

Black ironwork on wagons is an invention of Welsh preserved lines and Hornby. While examples of "oddball" one-offs and the very few private owner liveries in Ireland did have this type of embellishment, normal wagons in normal traffic would never have had ironwork picked out in black.

Regarding the ones you describe - did you mean the CIE Ranks ones?

5 hours ago, Angus said:

A bit of progress is being made on finishing some stock already built.

These MGWR vans attracted a bit of attention when first built. 

Inspired by David Holman's recent MGWR mail train build I've decide to finish them in pre-GSR colours. This probably means I'll have to backdate the layout to early GSR days at the least. It would give me the opportunity to run a mix of liveries although the thought of lining out a loco in 2mm does bring on a cold sweat!

1930539251_MGWRvanspainted1.thumb.jpg.389b4548213e52f073b39b41c475e186.jpg

I've just realised I've painted the solebars underframe colour as a steel underframe rather than body colour for a wooden underframe. I'll correct that.

A couple of questions to the audience, is the body colour correct? I believe it should be slightly darker than LMS maroon for late period MGWR which I've tried to capture?

In the UK the wooden centres of the Mansell wheels were sometimes varnished or even painted (on the LNWR newly constructed coaches had varnished centres that were then painted the body lake colour at the first re-paint). Does anyone know what the MGWR practise was? Accepting, of course, being low to the ground the wheel centres would be covered in crud in ordinary operation!

I made reference to being gifted some models from a fellow 2mm scale association member. This included what is described as a CB&SC open wagon.

1082385747_CBSCwagon1.thumb.jpg.9c5c24aaa093477759c126ab61b6e3d9.jpg

The body is scratch built from styrene and is rather exquisite (please bear in mind this is 2mm scale so the body is only 30mm long)

I can't find any details of the wagon (the CB&SCR doesn't appear in my library as it's a bit far south). The wagon scales at 15' in the body with a 9' wheelbase. Also I can't find any CB&SC wagon livery details either, I could always cop out and paint it GSR grey, in which case the undercoat will suffice! I'd be appreciative if anyone can fill in in any of the gaps?

For 2mm gauge, these vehicles - all of them - are quite simply the very best modelling in that scale that I have EVER seen. That pic would do credit to 0 gauge!

The undercoat colour you have would indeed suffice, though it's lighter than the grey used. If you weather it badly - which would be absolutely prototypical - it'll match perfectly!

As to the horse boxes - the chassis is fine. Horse boxes and carriage trucks were very usually painted by most Irish railway companies in passenger livery, hence MGWR ones were brown initially. After 1918 they were maroon, and from what I understand, it would fade quite quickly to match exactly what you have. So, the above is correct either for 1918-25 MGWR livery, OR GSR livery.

Chassis would be black, as these were in passenger livery. The general rule for most irish companies is - goods livery has chassis same colour as body and ironwork; passenger livery has black chassis.

So that horse box is fine as it is. SOME horse boxes could be wagon grey in CIE days, but most seemed to have passenger livery. (Laterally this meant exceptionally badly worn, bleached and faded remains of CIE green - and some grey).

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5 hours ago, Angus said:

Inspired by David Holman's recent MGWR mail train build I've decide to finish them in pre-GSR colours. This probably means I'll have to backdate the layout to early GSR days at the least. It would give me the opportunity to run a mix of liveries although the thought of lining out a loco in 2mm does bring on a cold sweat!

1930539251_MGWRvanspainted1.thumb.jpg.389b4548213e52f073b39b41c475e186.jpg

I've just realised I've painted the solebars underframe colour as a steel underframe rather than body colour for a wooden underframe. I'll correct that.

While it was conventional to paint horse boxes in passenger livery, this was usually without any lining! So you're safe on that front! Just lettering and number; in the case of both the MGWR and GSR, a gold-yellow colour, shaded. I think I've seen a pic somewhere of one of these with a GSR crest added, but it would not have been typical; maybe a one-off, so you're safe there too!

Because its passenger livery, black chassis / wheels / solebars is correct. If you wanted to have it in wagon livery, obviously the whole thing would be grey.

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There is a brief history and a number of photos of CBSCR open wagons in Ernie Shepherd's CBSCR book. The model appears to be based on the 10T opens built by the railway and bought from Pickering in the early 1900s. The wagons appear to have been intended for grain traffic and at least one of the Pickering wagons fitted with a tarpaulin bar and raised ends. Some CBSCR wagons were fitted with Dean-Churchward brake gear which would be challenging to model in 2mm scale.

173989128_CBSCROpenWagon09052021.thumb.jpg.3623d6378e8178f9d2b52aa09c86e3b0.jpg

Makers photo of 399 possibly in red with blackened ironwork.

There is an in-service photo of CBSCR open 603 in allover grey with white lettering and numerals in Ernies Shepherd's book, the wagon appears to be to the same design as 399 but with the exception of raised ends and sheet rail.

Most British builders works photos of  Irish wagons have blackened ironwork. Its possible the ironwork was painted in black for advertising purposes, alternatively the ironwork may have been blackened before assembly to resist corrosion.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_oxide#:~:text=Black oxide or blackening is,and to minimize light reflection.

 

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Thanks Mayner, that's really helpful information.

My railway library is already overflowing and it is difficult to justify spending £20 on a book just to get the livery details for one wagon.

Presumably the lettering and fonts are similar on the grey wagon?

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10 hours ago, Mayner said:

 

Most British builders works photos of  Irish wagons have blackened ironwork. Its possible the ironwork was painted in black for advertising purposes, alternatively the ironwork may have been blackened before assembly 

That is precisely the reason.

Once they were in use, daily grime became the livery.

All railway companies had their own “corporate image”, just like today. Manufacturers often dolled things up to look good in photos (e.g. locomotives with elaborately lined “works grey”), but these were not the way they went into traffic, as companies wanted them in their standard colours. Painters wages were cheap!

The first-ever “Woolwich” was repainted in full twice before it ever turned a wheel.....

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12 hours ago, Mayner said:

There is a brief history and a number of photos of CBSCR open wagons in Ernie Shepherd's CBSCR book. The model appears to be based on the 10T opens built by the railway and bought from Pickering in the early 1900s. The wagons appear to have been intended for grain traffic and at least one of the Pickering wagons fitted with a tarpaulin bar and raised ends. Some CBSCR wagons were fitted with Dean-Churchward brake gear which would be challenging to model in 2mm scale.

173989128_CBSCROpenWagon09052021.thumb.jpg.3623d6378e8178f9d2b52aa09c86e3b0.jpg

Makers photo of 399 possibly in red with blackened ironwork.

There is an in-service photo of CBSCR open 603 in allover grey with white lettering and numerals in Ernies Shepherd's book, the wagon appears to be to the same design as 399 but with the exception of raised ends and sheet rail.

Most British builders works photos of  Irish wagons have blackened ironwork. Its possible the ironwork was painted in black for advertising purposes, alternatively the ironwork may have been blackened before assembly to resist corrosion.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_oxide#:~:text=Black oxide or blackening is,and to minimize light reflection.

 

Thats the one. I think the bantry layout thread has one or two of these built from scratch 

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3 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Thats the one. I think the bantry layout thread has one or two of these built from scratch 

Rather than grain wagons....? I think some of those opens with the curved tops to the ends were still kicking about in the 1930s, and possibly longer - you'd never know what you'd find hiding long forgotten in some nook or cranny siding in West Cork.

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