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leslie10646

Provincial Wagons' next wagon?

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Posted (edited)

This is a bit cheeky, but before I invest a couple of thousand quid I don't have ......

Recent sales have been disappointing (obviously I'm doing something very wrong!), so before I produce another damp squib, may I ask?

My next planned wagon, intended for launch at the Blackrock Exhibition in October, is the 1950 CIE Cattle Wagon. My logic is that now that one can buy a RTR Class J15, folk will need something to pull behind it? So, what did they spend their lives pulling? - endless cattle specials from Fairs the length and breadth of the Republic.  The choice seems logical (with one of my GSWR brakes on the back, or even front and back!). But is it?

Any takers? I can't hold you to any number which you might buy, but it would be useful to know, please!

Maybe, if you're interested, you'd e-mail me, please,  on

lesliemcallister@aol.com

Thanks for your forbearance with me.

Leslie

515716642_PhotoJonathanAllenA39-11-Cork.thumb.jpg.3cea282c742f027804220d0ee9225abe.jpg

Photo: Courtesy Jonathan Allan

 

Edited by leslie10646
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They will be nice.

Were they in brown as well as grey?

And will it be a resin kit?

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I 'd be in the market for 6 min - probably double that - they were everywhere.

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Were they in brown as well as grey?

And will it be a resin kit?

Hi Popeye, anything I've seen suggests grey, although many were clearly fitted (the GN painted fitted stuff a bauxite shade, but not sure about CIE where cattle was concerned.

No doubt Comrade Beaumont will sort me out!

Yes, a resin kit.

Thanks for the interest.

Leslie

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There is a picture in Rails through the west book page 20 shows them in a red/brown colour.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/7/2019 at 10:39 PM, popeye said:

They will be nice.

Were they in brown as well as grey?

And will it be a resin kit?

Probably a quarter of the fleet, maybe more, got the all-brown livery, but most stayed grey till the end. I saw a line of them in Cork about 1975/6 and a few still had flying snail stencils.

Naturally, none ever had the dreaded black chassis or white roof!

Edited by jhb171achill
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Posted (edited)

Front Cover Page - Irish Meteo-Vick Diesels.   Barry Carse. Publisher Colourpoint Books -  Colourpoint Transport 6

Hazelhatch c1973-74  There is a mixture of Grey and Bauxite Cattle Wagons show in this photograph. The Locomotive A20R in Black, white and Gold.

 

Edited by Old Blarney
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Great stuff Leslie. between 10 - 15 for me. Would love them in RTR format but kits are equally good!

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On ‎6‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 1:10 PM, leslie10646 said:

This is a bit cheeky, but before I invest a couple of thousand quid I don't have ......

Recent sales have been disappointing (obviously I'm doing something very wrong!), so before I produce another damp squib, may I ask?

My next planned wagon, intended for launch at the Blackrock Exhibition in October, is the 1950 CIE Cattle Wagon. My logic is that now that one can buy a RTR Class J15, folk will need something to pull behind it? So, what did they spend their lives pulling? - endless cattle specials from Fairs the length and breadth of the Republic.  The choice seems logical (with one of my GSWR brakes on the back, or even front and back!). But is it?

Any takers? I can't hold you to any number which you might buy, but it would be useful to know, please!

Maybe, if you're interested, you'd e-mail me, please,  on

lesliemcallister@aol.com

Thanks for your forbearance with me.

Leslie

515716642_PhotoJonathanAllenA39-11-Cork.thumb.jpg.3cea282c742f027804220d0ee9225abe.jpg

Photo: Courtesy Jonathan Allan

 

Leslie, great to see this wagon being modelled.  Include me for 6-10 and preferably RTR.  Anyone know if, besides cows and horses (I'm guessing horses)were these wagons used for transporting other livestock?  Also, were there any restrictions about bringing loaded rakes through mainline stations like Westland Row?

8118

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, DART8118 said:

Leslie, great to see this wagon being modelled.  Include me for 6-10 and preferably RTR.  Anyone know if, besides cows and horses (I'm guessing horses)were these wagons used for transporting other livestock?  Also, were there any restrictions about bringing loaded rakes through mainline stations like Westland Row?

8118

According to the GSR appendix...

Special Trains with Shipping Stock must have precedence over all trains other than Passenger trains.

Horses must as far as possible be loaded in roofed cattle trucks.

Live stock on slow goods trains should, as far as practicable, be attached next rear van in order to avoid injury to stock during shunting movements at stations.

Calves, sheep, goats and swine, if carried in the same railway truck or other railway vehicle with any head of cattle (other than a calf), or a horse, ass, or mule, shall be separated therefrom by a suitable partition; but this provision shall not apply to the conveyance of a cow with its unweaned calf, if they are separated from other animals.

Between each first day of November and the next following thirteenth day of April (both days inclusive) every railway truck or other railway vehicle in which shorn sheep are carried shall be covered and inclosed (sic.) so as to protect the sheep from the weather, without obstruction to proper ventilation; but this article shall not apply to sheep last shorn more than sixty days before being so carried.

Edited by minister_for_hardship
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Thanks for sharing, great insight into railway operation and especially Leslie's cattle wagons.

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Horses were usually transported in horseboxes which were classified as non-passenger coaching stock capable of passenger train speeds rather than goods stock. Horseboxes appear to be mainly pre-amalgamation stock though the GSR built some horseboxes to a GSWR design in the 1920s.

Horseboxes usually ran individually in scheduled passenger trains or as specials in connection with the larger race meetings. There is a picture of a train of horseboxes at Newcastle West en-route to the Listowel Races in the early 70s just before the traffic ended in JHB & Barry Carse North Kerry Pictorial Album.

Before the setting up of modern meat processing plants in the 60s & 70s a high proportion of cattle sold at fairs in the West were shipped by rail for fattening in the East or exported on the hoof to England & Scotland. 

The Midland had a limit of 25 wagons including van in the 1890s for cattle specials though loads may have increased as larger locos and longer vacuum fitted wagons were introduced. 

Traffic from the big fairs in the West were heavy, in 1923 there were paths for 6 livestock specials from Loughrea and 4 from Ballinrobe at close to hourly intervals on the Big Fair days.

In the 1960 WTT CIE had paths for shipping specials from the "South & West to the North Wall including paths from, Athy, Nenagh, Fethard, Tullamore, Tipperary, Moate, Mullingar, Mostrim & Roscommon. Following the closure of the SLNCR CIE introduced a scheduled Sligo-Mullingar "Shipper" which connected with the Athlone-North Wall Goods which could be "specially expedited" to ensure shipping at North Wall. The Sligo shipper also carried meat in containers from Dromod.

Other fairs would have been served by "Specials" which would have appeared in the "Weekly Traffic Notice"

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Thanks John.  More great information about the transport of livestock on the railway.

 

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Gents

Thanks for the positive feedback, which encourages me to continue.

Feel free to add to my list - as I say, I can't hold you to numbers, but it's useful to know who's interested - they can get the first pictures, first!

Leslie

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Pretty clearly, cattle trucks and horse boxes are essential aspects of a pre-1965 layout - in some areas up to pre-75. In other words, before and during the entirety of the grey’n’green and black’n’tan eras.

Certainly in the case of cattle trucks, just as essential as a corrugated open wagon, a J15, a 141 and an “H” van.

Now for a Midland six-wheeler! 😀

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Horseboxes?

Yep, thought of those and of how few I'd sell - they did tend to run singly - except for the RDS Show?

Then, which one - GN, GS, BCDR (I could go on).

Of course, if I have fifty requests for a particular one, it'll be ready for the next show after Blackrock!

Back to Live Meat Transport. After a passionate debate (about thirty seocnd's thought), we've gone for the unfitted 1950 wagon, seen closest to the camera below.

1086139238_05aBZ26174Cattlewagons1950and1949closeup.thumb.jpg.6ad63332021ea0dc0a3c8ec96fef882d.jpg

If you want a 1949 one or two (the one furthest from the camera), a bit of Plasticard and a shortening of the cross bracing and Hey Presto, you're there.

Watch this space!

Still open for expressions of interest to encourage us!

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I'll take the cows - dead or alive ( as long as they're no more than 2cms tall!)

As before - put me down for 10 definitely - may take more.

ED

Edited by Edo

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