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PorkyP

CIE ever use Land Rovers in 60s ?

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Just wondering, as there's been a bit of talk about vehicles, buses etc, anyone know if CIE used Land Rovers at all, I'm thinking 60s era..  likely youd think for track gangs or work in out of the way locations. I 've never seen one or any pics, but thought it'd be a vehicle they would have had a use for and be interesting to see if anyone's got any info..

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As far as I am aware the first mechanical equipment used by Permanent Way on CIÉ were Massey Ferguson Tractors fitted with bolted on rail wheels.

They could travel to site by road and be mounted on the track when the track was in possession of the Engineering Staff.

They could also travel along the formation when the track was removed.

They were used to lift (timber) sleepers (4 at a time) in or our of the line with a simple crane device which could swing to the side. 

They were also used to drag a simple harrow over the formation to break up the compacted surface prior to installing new sleepers etc.

The harrow and crane were operated by the lift device on the tractor.

Mobile vans were first introduced in the Dublin area in the late 1960s early 1970s.

Thames vans were used I think.

The choice and size of van chosen was influenced by the following factors:-

Capable of transporting 5 to 6 men with tools etc.

Capable of pulling s small trailer to transport additional tools and equipment.

Capable of transversing famers fields in without causing damage to the land while fully loaded and hauling the trailer.

Capable of fitting through railway accommodation under bridges.

I hope this is of assistance.

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Posted (edited)

Interesting, thanks for that.. I know they did produce a special land rover kit with railway wheels, though I expect this was designed for the Brit 4' .8¹/² track..

1962 Land-Rover 2.25 litre Diesel Engine Pulling Train - Web.jpg

Edited by PorkyP

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Here’s a Land Rover on CIE...😝

screenshot courtesy of Provincial Wagons.

in all seriousness I’m not aware of such a thing, although there have been a few rail lorries such as the Scammell one used at Oranmore.

 

 

96E15F68-A5EA-4B3E-B830-68CEFB90C5E1.jpeg

Edited by Galteemore
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The Rail Rover was a good idea and it worked very well...going forward. The trouble was getting all of that weight to stop using the Land Rover brakes on their own.

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The old land rover does well enough just to stop itself, provided you give it a bit of advance notice !

You'd need a good old brake van, or two, to stop a train with a LR loco...

I was really wondering more if CIE used any Land Rovers in a more general capacity, as a van or whatever, but seems probably not..

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Another road-rail conversion a bitumen company used a Scammell tractor unit for shunting tank wagons on a private siding at Oranmore  during the 60s & 70s, the tractor was fitted with a ballast bin to assist traction and braking.

There is a photo of the tractor in Oranmore goods yard in "Rails through the West"

Scammell (JZA978).

 

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It does work the other way all my layouts regularly travel in a 1960's Land Rover(1962 to be precise)including the 900 mile round trip to Cultra with Castlederg.Andy.

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Yep, I've got one like that too Andy, was thinking it'd look well with a flying snail logo on the door...!

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Folks would probably ask me for train information anyway..

..tho of course I could give the classic reply..."ahh.. now, if you're going there I wouldn't be starting from here.." 😉

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Or as the station staff at Buggleskelly on the Southern Railway of Northern Ireland used to say.....D811FD3F-561C-44C7-B42C-4AD6F87E1FEF.jpeg

Edited by Galteemore
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1 hour ago, Galteemore said:

.D811FD3F-561C-44C7-B42C-4AD6F87E1FEF.jpeg

Kinda like the closure of the West Clare or the T&D ( I don't recall which exactly, someone will correct) where the 'last' train was cancelled!

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Who needs Schroedinger’s cat?! This is an even better problem. If the last train hasn’t run, does that mean that the line is technically still open ? 🤔 😂

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I believe the preserved bit of the West Clare is another one that's fallen into decay sadly, from what I've heard..

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Sad but  entirely believable. Any heritage line requires the golden triangle of cash, crew and crowds to keep it going - a sustainable money flow, staff/volunteers, and paying punters. Some of the Irish schemes seem to start off with a burst of public money but are unsustainable after that. The RPSI seems to thrive on a few tightly packed seasons of fully loaded trains, especially in the Dublin area - having many years ago ruled out the viability of a branch line type operation on the mainland UK style. Downpatrick have made it work but I suspect Ireland simply cannot support too many such schemes with the population base it has. There are some signs that even the UK preserved sector is struggling in places. And as the folk memory of railways in public life invariably dies off, there will arguably be fewer people ready to commit themselves to recreate a railway atmosphere they don’t actually remember.... From my own highly unscientific observations, the lion’s share of labour on heritage lines here in the UK is provided by healthy retirees in their 60s and 70s, who can give their time and energy to trains because their mortgages are paid off and the pension is rolling in. That pool of labour may not exist in such quantity in the years ahead :economists have shown that  the current working generation in the western world now is the first generation in a long time to be worse off than their parents..and will not be able to retire at 55/60...

Edited by Galteemore
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Very good points you raise there, and very well put..it's still such a tragedy when something is brought back to life against all odds, only to be left to rot again, the Tralee & Dingle we mentioned in another thread springs to mind here too.  I'll have to try and win 20 million on a lottery or something and step in..!

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Finntown railway has been closed 3 times this year when I had booked a visit with them and 2 of these visits  were with groups on a bus with myself as a tour guide. In contrast Donegal Railway Heritage Centre open an the same day that Finntown was closed and staff on Donegal told myself that this happens all the time!

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Not aware of any Land Rovers with CIE, although the ESB were (and still are) big users of those vehicles.

Many years ago I came across what looked like a furniture removal truck in a scrap yard, still had faded Orange paint and CIE LOCO DEPT writ large on it. The make I did not take notice of but looked 50s or 60s in origin.

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I imagine ESB would have found them very handy with the Rural Electrification Scheme certainly !

I'm wondering if there's any books on CIE trucks and vehicles in general, and especially 40s 50s 60s eras.. I'm in danger of going off on another modelling tangent here! 

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DSC00118.jpg

On 9/6/2019 at 6:29 AM, minister_for_hardship said:

Many years ago I came across what looked like a furniture removal truck in a scrap yard, still had faded Orange paint and CIE LOCO DEPT writ large on it. The make I did not take notice of but looked 50s or 60s in origin.

CIE used some Bedford trucks for Road Freight Services which looked very much like the old Nat Ross styles trucks with a forward 'attic' over the cab. There were different styles and some were apparently even used for horses on occasion. I'm not sure how large the fleet was but some numbers included BV-28 and BV-103
Edited by DiveController
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22 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Sad but  entirely believable. Any heritage line requires the golden triangle of cash, crew and crowds to keep it going - a sustainable money flow, staff/volunteers, and paying punters. Some of the Irish schemes seem to start off with a burst of public money but are unsustainable after that. The RPSI seems to thrive on a few tightly packed seasons of fully loaded trains, especially in the Dublin area - having many years ago ruled out the viability of a branch line type operation on the mainland UK style. Downpatrick have made it work but I suspect Ireland simply cannot support too many such schemes with the population base it has. There are some signs that even the UK preserved sector is struggling in places. And as the folk memory of railways in public life invariably dies off, there will arguably be fewer people ready to commit themselves to recreate a railway atmosphere they don’t actually remember.... From my own highly unscientific observations, the lion’s share of labour on heritage lines here in the UK is provided by healthy retirees in their 60s and 70s, who can give their time and energy to trains because their mortgages are paid off and the pension is rolling in. That pool of labour may not exist in such quantity in the years ahead :economists have shown that  the current working generation in the western world now is the first generation in a long time to be worse off than their parents..and will not be able to retire at 55/60...

The lack of local buy in (financial & labour) is likely to be a bigger factor (plain lack of interest in heritage or railways) in the failure of railway preservation schemes in the Republic than low population density compared with the UK. There are many successful schemes in remote areas of the Australia, New Zealand and the United States which were established, funded and operated by local communities.

The main exception being the restoration of the West Clare which appears to have been largely the vision of Jackie Whelan a local business man and the Cavan & Leitrim which has more in common with the smaller grass roots volunteer railways funded and operated largely by the membership with little or no professional business involvement.

Perhaps there is a greater sense of ownership in communities which still have a strong sense of self sufficiency having settled the land and built their towns and railways, than in Ireland where the railways were associated more with British rule and the landed gentry than local enterprise. Local groups in the San Juan Mountains established museums and demonstration running lines in Ridgeway (pop 713) and Dolores (pop 936) to preserve artifacts of the Rio Grande Southern Narrow gauge. Local tourism in Ridgeway is heavily based on providing volunteer guides mainly active retired people who have retired to the mountains.

In New Zealand population similar to Ireland much bigger land mass some preserved lines operate on a very occasional basis restoration of locos and stock is largely funded by the owners, in remote South Canterbury a number of local groups have recovered and restored steam locos that were dumped into rivers 80-90 years ago http://www.whitebusfamily.co.nz/first_restoration.htm.

The situation appears to be much the same in Australia though there appears to be a bit more Federal Government/State largess than in New Zealand or Ireland with both Federal and Tasmania funding the restoration of the West Coast Wilderness Railway of the Abt Railway through one of the remotest parts of a remote State! https://www.wcwr.com.au/

This would be the equivalent of the EU & Merrion St funding the restoration of the Tralee & Dingle or Mountain-Stage to Cahirciveen and letting the operating contract to Belmond.

 

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At the risk of derailing(!) the thread title, I think there is an interest in railways in this country but not so much as to support a heritage line with elbow grease or funding as an armchair supporter. Heritage railways are great, provided 'someone else' does the work, that's why greenways are an easy win, 'someone else', the council or whoever, does all the work. 

 

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On 9/6/2019 at 12:20 AM, PorkyP said:

I believe the preserved bit of the West Clare is another one that's fallen into decay sadly, from what I've heard..

It was operating the other week when I was there and they are submitting a grant application for a number of improvements.

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Glad to hear that Clare was still going recently, maybe I was misinformed, I heard somewhere that the locos and stock were all abandoned and decaying, very glad if I'm wrong !... no thread derail worries lads, it's all interesting stuff ...

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7 minutes ago, PorkyP said:

Glad to hear that Clare was still going recently, maybe I was misinformed, I heard somewhere that the locos and stock were all abandoned and decaying, very glad if I'm wrong !... no thread derail worries lads, it's all interesting stuff ...

You're thinking of Tralee, where sadly this is the case, and it doesn't look as if it'll change any time soon.

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Tralee is particularly tragic as the no5 loco came all the way back from the US, was got up and running nicely, and trains operating, but now is derelict again by all accounts..(this came up in another thread where I was after some 'from above' detail pics of T&D locos)

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Sad to see the T&D in such a derelict state last time I was there for the model rail exhibition.

One of the Road Freight Services trucks from the RTE archives

 

045_2c7040737eaee28b7dab2db11ec39f2855191125.jpg

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The 'new' West Clare Railway is very much the hijacked dream of one man - not the present operator - and is destined to go the same way as Blennerville. The recent Tripadvisor review below is typical of many that have appeared over the years. The present operator listens to nobody and that will be his undoing.

More reviews here:

https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Attraction_Review-g186595-d1551466-Reviews-West_Clare_Railway-County_Clare.html

WC TRIP.png

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I'd heard similar tale to the above, hence my earlier comments, such a pity if that's the way it's going..

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One man bands and private 'train sets' are doomed to eventual failure without a hardcore of helpers and the backing of the community.

T&DR 5T would have been better off going to the UFTM, the public could at least view it there.

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Let's see how the grant application goes before writing it off. The success, or lack of it, of this application (which I have seen) will either make or break the whole thing.

Lack of volunteers in such a remote location is the major problem for this particular operation. 

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On 9/6/2019 at 3:40 PM, PorkyP said:

I'm wondering if there's any books on CIE trucks and vehicles in general, and especially 40s 50s 60s eras.. I'm in danger of going off on another modelling tangent here! 

Hi PP

Here is one on CIE buses;- http://stenlake.co.uk/book_publishing/?page_id=131&ref=1060&section=RdTransport

I also saw a book by the same publisher with CIE trucks and vans but cannot locate it on their website, Des McGlynn had a copy of it at the Stillorgan Toy Fair.....

Eoin

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The trucks and vans book sounds good, but t'internet doesn't seem to fjnd it unfortunately, tho theres a few pics of random CIE stuff...these amused me as I only really think of them as BR machines ..

user677160_pic85946_1333045903.jpg

Scammell Mechanical Horse.jpeg

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