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Colin R

Irish railway transfers

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Hi all I have a guy on one of my other e groups who is running some Irish Transfers for the group, If you can help him can you reply to him on the above email address if not then please reply here and I will send you responce to him for you.

Thanks one again

Colin Rainsbury




Good afternoon everyone.

I am now fairly advanced with filling a large sheet with black & white
waterslide transfers and looking for information to allow me to fill the
remainder of the gaps with 00n3 transfers. I would like to get things
wrapped up within the next fortnight or so, if possible. After this the
next few print runs are going to be colours, so anything that misses
this window will need to wait for a while.

I have a few outstanding queries and would appreciate any contributions
towards this:

For a selection of Great Southern initials, are these required in sizes
other than 12" (common) and 16"? Do I also need to include a smaller one
for low sided (1 plank) wagons?

Did the CIE logo come in any sizes other than 6" & 12"?

I am hoping to cover the following railways on this print run: C&L; CDR;
CVR; & Lough Swilly. Could folk suggest any vehicle types they would
like to see covered? I can look at kit manufacter's catalogues, but if
that's not going to tell me what people have taken out of the cupboard
recently & built. As long as it can be printed in black & white, there's
a fair chance it can be included.

To complement the West Clare open wagons sheet, I was pondering doing
one covering a handful of covered vans. Would there be any interest in
this? All I need is a handful of running numbers and photos if there are
special details are required beyond company initials and tare.

Finally for Irish railways, was any 3' coaching stock lettered in white?
I have only seen a modest number of photos and in B&w this doesn't let
on whether the lettering was a cream, yellow or white.

These new sheets are to go alongside: CIE logos; T&D Vans; & WCR open
wagons (already printed) and T&D opens (already expected & mainly drawn
out for printing).

I appreciate the IOM is a bit more mainstream. However, I am still in
need of inspiration. Could you please let me know what is wanted for
freight stock lettering? I would like to print both white with black
shading and plain white lettering. Locomotive & coach transfers will
need to wait as they are in cream or yellow but are on the lists to do
in due course.

Regards,  Simon.

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Posted (edited)

Hello Simon.

To go through your post, there's quite a lot in there, so here we go.

You refer to GSR initials - I'm wondering if you mean the large letters "G  S" on wagons? These can be determined by the number of planks they cover. Even on the smallest of narrow gauge vehicles (e.g. the Schull & Skibbereen) they tended to use the same large size. These were white when applied, but would become off-white very quickly, as apart from the (considerable!) weathering, chemicals from the wood preservative leaked through and took the "whiter than white" look off the white paint within days.
Low plank wagons did indeed have smaller lettering, as befitted the plank. On these, they would make the letters almost as tall as they could within available space. 
The CIE logo went through three stages.
1. 1945 - early 1950s: Painted in light green, as on locos, coaches and road vehicles, but painted, not transfers. Numerals the same, and on a background of a dark grey like the GSR - i.e. same as British LMS wagon grey.
2. Early 1950s - late 1950s: Same as above, except painted in white.
3. Late 1950s until replaced by the CIE "roundel" from 1963 onwards: Still white, but wagon grey now considerably lighter, and both numerals and "flying snail" stencilled.
After that, once we're into "roundel" times, this was always white except on "H" type and "Palvans", and the 1954 GNR cement vans. On these the roundel bit was tan, with the letters white. White numbers always. Once the all-brown started appearing from about 1969/70 onwards, without any exceptions whatsoever, logos and numerals were always white. Again, brake dust and general gunk tended to tone this down within days in traffic.
The narrow gauge lines all used plain white for all wagon markings, though the C & L had at least one (something makes me think three?) open wagons for ballast which were painted yellow (a century before the time when ALL PW stuff is now painted a ghastly garish yellow!), and these had, as one might expect, black letters. The GS actually continued this for a time with black "G S" on these wagons. The Isle of Man Railway, which you mention, had white letters and numbers, shaded black.
Metalwork on almost every type of wagon on all lines was body colour, not picked out in black like the zebra-like GN brakevan at Whitehead!
Finally, and most importantly for those seeking accuracy, with regard to CARRIAGE markings, these were ALWAYS pale green, lined in black and gold, or (in the case of the C&L) pale green without edging. Carriage numbers on the WCR were also pale green without lining.
CIE did not, ever, paint either "flying snails", lining or any numerals on any carriages, in white or gold or cream or yellow. Always light green. the "flying snails" were transfers - same as applied to buses, road vehicles, railcars and the tenders of steam locomotives.
There is, of course, an exception to every rule. While it is hard to ascertain, one old Bandon bogie third, still in use at Albert Quay in the late 1950s, has been painted locally about 1955. It was in the recently-replaced darker green, but without any lining at all, and with flying snails which LOOK to be a white colour. I cannot be sure of this - it could be the normal light green, but they are placed differently and it's obviously a "local" job. With weathering, on a model whit coach markings just wouldn't look realistic even if they had been used.
Two C & L coaches, by the time colour photography was in vogue, have lines above window level that are so badly weathered and faded that in a photo that old, they look whitish - but they were light green.
In terms of a "wish list", I think that if commercially viable, a transfer sheet of stencilled, and weathered, white wagon "snails" would be a good thing. Modelling the 1955-70 period requires stencilled snails, again if accuracy is desired, and on a layout the white looks way too pristine.
I hope this helps.
Edited by jhb171achill
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Thanks john for the update, that is most useful, like so many things in modelling, it takes time to get them right and this forum proves yet again just how helpfull it is to the modelling trade, as they say onward and upward.


Colin R 

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