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IRM and Factory Weathering / Weathered Stock

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DJ Dangerous
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I'm curious about factory weathering. I notice that Murphy Models released weathered 141's and 071's, but not 201's nor 121's.

Is there any reasoning behind that? 073 and 085 are by far my favourite MM 071's, but were they poor sellers or something?

IRM thus far haven't released any weathered stock, but maybe with the advent of Noel's favourite PW yellow stock hitting the rails, weathered options may be attractive to some folk?

From a buyers perspective, what do people prefer?

Personally, and in particular for brighter stock (if somebody some day releases silver Laminates for example), I much prefer stock that's lightly weathered from the factory.

Hardcore weatherers can still super-weather the stock even further, and the light factory weathering adds a level of realism to the layouts of the Simpletons like me.

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Personally I don't think models can be weathered properly in the factory. So I'd like to buy a clean loco and have the option to have it weathered later. I haven't had the nerve to weather any of my stuff... Yet

What is weathering? It's not just a bit of dust along the train, it's rust, paint peeling, fading, fly splatter, exhaust staining, oil staining, grease, track dirt and much more. 

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Yes, that's true.  When raised as a question previously, one reason was that factory weathering tends not to look as effective / realistic as individual weathering that is carried out.    

Those lucky enough to know how to weather tend to prefer to do it themselves was a reason given.

I would agree that l would always prefer a weathered look but wouldn't dare tackle it myself-  l leave it to others to do on mine!

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For me, it'll be another thirty years before I retire from work and start weathering, and that's quite a long time to be looking at shiny stock, thinking "Ah sure only another 29 years and 350 days and I'll start weathering this" ...

That's why I think that light factory weathering of some models is a nice option. Those who wan't super-detailed can always weather it much more.

After running 073 and 085, the other 071's are just missing something, in comparison.

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5 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

For me, it'll be another thirty years before I retire from work and start weathering, and that's quite a long time to be looking at shiny stock, thinking "Ah sure only another 29 years and 350 days and I'll start weathering this" ...

That's why I think that light factory weathering of some models is a nice option. Those who wan't super-detailed can always weather it much more.

After running 073 and 085, the other 071's are just missing something, in comparison.

Strangely enough, 073 and 085 were the first 071 class models I bought when the IR/IE liveries were released. Both are now gone, they were moved on for unweatherd versions, which i hope to tackle myself eventually. Something just never looked right about them to me, but that's just my opinion.  

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5 minutes ago, JasonB said:

Strangely enough, 073 and 085 were the first 071 class models I bought when the IR/IE liveries were released. Both are now gone, they were moved on for unweatherd versions, which i hope to tackle myself eventually. Something just never looked right about them to me, but that's just my opinion.  

 

You see, I've seen your workbench thread, so there is hope for you when it comes to weathering...

Fancy doing some weathering in the sun for me???

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10 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

 

You see, I've seen your workbench thread, so there is hope for you when it comes to weathering...

Fancy doing some weathering in the sun for me???

Not a hope. I get enough earache as it is off MrsB about the amount of time I spend in the shed :)  

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As a very novice railway enthusiast and with just a few locos and wagons and limited time and knowhow, i would like the option of a few weathered locos/wagons from the manufacturer.. They are certainly not as good as the ones we see by modellers here but i think they still look more realistic than the shining box new ones,...Imo. 

Edited by Alan
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I don't think that IRM want to get into the issue of criticism of the models which are to a very high standard being marred by criticism due to poor weathering. If you look at say MM0177 which is a weathered 141 class basically it had a sorry of beige 'dirt' all over the loco including the windscreens  iirc and is weathered but not very realistically IMO. Models may have moved on in their specs but I'm not sure that weathering has improved to match that progress as has been alluded to already

 

Edited by DiveController
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Dapol got Ian Clenton of Mercig to weather a model western and this was supplied to China as a example of what was wanted and this worked very well.  It just means working up a close and careful spec for the factory to follow.   The generic rail grime colour used elsewhere is a a shame as it does not even give a good base to work on. 

Robert    

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3 minutes ago, Robert Shrives said:

Dapol got Ian Clenton of Mercig to weather a model western and this was supplied to China as a example of what was wanted and this worked very well.  It just means working up a close and careful spec for the factory to follow.   The generic rail grime colour used elsewhere is a a shame as it does not even give a good base to work on. 

Robert    

That's a brilliant idea from a manufacturers point of view!

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It's a dilemma alright, if I'd been asked this question 4 years ago I'd have been very much in favour the option of a very list dusting of factory weathering just to take toyish plastic shine of some models (ie like MM083, MM177 were done). With the advantage of hindsight and the passage of time, now I'd prefer pristine and have a go myself. One side of me is keen to have a go at one of the grey 121s, but the other side of me says don't dare, leave it alone its beautiful as it is. Even the lightest factory dusting can transform the appearance of a plastic looking model. Each on to their own. Blast I had planned an afternoon watching the rugby now this tread has me thinking I need to spend a few hours on B134, but the RPSI prototype recently resprayed has not even been weathered yet by real weather nor real time. Might try B135 instead but will have to wait until the faulty speaker is replaced or repaired.

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Totally understand that modellers would rather not potentially destroy a model they paid decent money for with weathering attempts. However, as Dave said plenty of guys out there that offering weathering services for a small fee which looks better than any factory weathering finish, with some of them showing their wares on here. Or, you could buy some cheapo models and practice on that and work your way up. I think it's no coincidence that there are no factory weathered 121s being offered, and the slowest selling 071s and 141s were..... yep, the weathered finished models... 

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Maybe not the thread for this point and maybe it's elsewhere on the site (l can't locate) but if there was some up to date listing of those that still provide weathering services that are available, it would be a great option for those that would want it.

Some of the weathering services listed are no longer taking new commissions l understand.

Maybe could help those providing the sevice meet those who want it!!

 

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It's not just a matter of choosing someone to weather for the members who live overseas in continental Europe, USA, etc.

There are the additional difficulties of 're-importing' the model even though it's for 're-export' later plus 2 sets of postage and there's always the risk of damage/loss in transit.

As well packed as B134 is it still arrive missing all the side rails. Easy enough to fit everything back with a tweezers.

I got ten of the 20' CIE accessory containers and had to reassemble 7 as the packaging had slid apart (again easy to do)

I'm kinda nervous about sending models through the variety of carriers that seem to seem to treat the contents as Lotto balls that need a good shakeup so it's anyones guess what will come out!

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3 minutes ago, DiveController said:

It's not just a matter of choosing someone to weather for the members who live overseas in continental Europe, USA, etc.

There are the additional difficulties of 're-importing' the model even though it's for 're-export' later plus 2 sets of postage and there's always the risk of damage/loss in transit.

As well packed as B134 is it still arrive missing all the side rails. Easy enough to fit everything back with a tweezers.

I got ten of the 20' CIE accessory containers and had to reassemble 7 as the packaging had slid apart (again easy to do)

I'm kinda nervous about sending models through the variety of carriers that seem to seem to treat the contents as Lotto balls that need a good shakeup so it's anyones guess what will come out!

Another way to look at it is that you're blessed to live on a continent that has some of the best weathering artists around that could do it for you. I love this guy in Canada and I'm sure with plenty of reference pics they could take on the challenge. https://weathermytrains.com/ Alternatively, are you a member of your local club, they always know local people with requisite skills. 

Or there's always the option of getting to know one of the weathering guys here, shipping the model directly to him when purchased and then having it sent on to you. Just some thoughts.

 

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For me, personally speaking, it would be far cheaper to fly a weatherer down here to do the weathering, than to post the models back and forth. Doing it myself is thirty years away if I want to keep working and be able to afford more models.

No clubs nor enthusiasts nor weatherers within a few thousand km, so without factory weathering, some kind of wierd barter arrangement will have to be developed!

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19 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

For me, personally speaking, it would be far cheaper to fly a weatherer down here to do the weathering, than to post the models back and forth. Doing it myself is thirty years away if I want to keep working and be able to afford more models.

No clubs nor enthusiasts nor weatherers within a few thousand km, so without factory weathering, some kind of wierd barter arrangement will have to be developed!

Just a suggestion DJ, but even without access to modellers or clubs, youtube can be a wonderful training resource and tool for ideas and inspiration.  One could start by learning a few of the ways of weathering using just water and weathering powders, which is very forgiving and effectively allows one to easily 'rub out' mistakes or bits one is not happy with and start again.  One can create very gentle washes using water and decalfix solution with just a few grains of weathering powder dust, brush or wipe the whole model, and then wipe off again. Decalfix, allows the wash to be reactivated with just water. No solvents needed. That will nicely dull the finish of any shiny bright coloured plastic. There is no need for an airbrush, that could come later. Some folks spray clear matt varnish over plastic bodies which give a better surface for weathering powders to bond to. But mask the windows or they will go milky white and opaque if exposed to varnish. Start with old wagons so one has the confidence before moving onto more precious rolling stock such as a craven or a loco, as time goes on, one can experiment with slightly more powder, allowing the wash to dry into recesses and panel lines, roof joints, etc, and the adventure continues and one becomes more adventurous each attempt. What's the worst that can happen, one wagon ends up looking grotty, but water based paints (acrylics) and weathering easily corrected and redone if a boo-boo is made. 

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Just now, Noel said:

Just a suggestion DJ, but even without access to modellers or clubs, youtube can be a wonderful training resource and tool for ideas and inspiration.  One could start by learning a few of the ways of weathering using just water and weathering powders, which is very forgiving and effectively allows one to easily 'rub out' mistakes or bits one is not happy with and start again.  One can create very gentle washes using water and decalfix solution with just a few grains of weathering powder dust, brush or wipe the whole model, and then wipe off again. Decalfix, allows the wash to be reactivated with just water. No solvents needed. That will nicely dull the finish of any shiny bright coloured plastic. There is no need for an airbrush, that could come later. Some folks spray clear matt varnish over plastic bodies which give a better surface for weathering powders to bond to. But mask the windows or they will go milky white and opaque if exposed to varnish. Start with old wagons so one has the confidence before moving onto more precious rolling stock such as a craven or a loco, as time goes on, one can experiment with slightly more powder, allowing the wash to dry into recesses and panel lines, roof joints, etc, and the adventure continues and one becomes more adventurous each attempt. What's the worst that can happen, one wagon ends up looking grotty, but water based paints (acrylics) and weathering easily corrected and redone if a boo-boo is made. 

Thanks, Noel.

I take inspiration here on the forum, from the likes of your work, George's, Anthony's, Jason's, and several more whose names elude me.

Air-brushing is definitely not something that my testicles would be large enough to attempt, but I do have some cheap €5 wagons from Hattons that would work well as the sacrificial lambs.

One day, I may try it out!

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On 9/11/2020 at 5:02 PM, gm171 kk said:

Personally I don't think models can be weathered properly in the factory. So I'd like to buy a clean loco and have the option to have it weathered later. I haven't had the nerve to weather any of my stuff... Yet

What is weathering? It's not just a bit of dust along the train, it's rust, paint peeling, fading, fly splatter, exhaust staining, oil staining, grease, track dirt and much more. 

Could do with a Tan", Preferably not a spray one though!

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Hi all

I consider factory weathering is often over done as is home brew weathering so I don't buy them unless I have absolutely totally no other choice.

Nor do I weather my stock and for me graffiti is a complete and absolute NO NO.

I much prefer my rose colored chocolate coated view of the world when it comes to model railways thanks, there is enough ugliness in the real world without moving it into the model train space to spoil that to.

If you wish to sell me weathered stock I am quite happy to accept the very generous 70% to 90% discount you are offering me on weathered stock, which is a good indicator of what I think of weathered stock factory or other wise and how much it de-values and spoils the product.

Those that have mastered the mystic art of weathering and get it right good luck to them that's their choice.

But it's just not for me.

regards John

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18 hours ago, DiveController said:

Many thanks for that link, Fran. I like your last idea best of all insofar as I feel that someone who models Irish outline might do the best job.

Would it create some export problems for IRM sending to a EU address prior to definitive export? Maybe I'll chat or email you guys

Aha, it is no problem from the POV of sending it to someone here when you buy via the website. We may have to work out something around the VAT issue though. Have a think about it, contact us with a plan and we will see what we can do! 

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