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=C=Rail= Intermodal new OO model and some reliveries

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Arran
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11 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Any plans for 45' containers at some stage, @Arran

HI All

at some point i will probably take the plunge but i have been waiting to see if 45ft reefers become more prevalent on the rails in the UK and Ireland , and they seem to be even in Ireland 

 

Regards Arran  

 

PS Now get out and get that Bell Bulk on the move,  No excuses will be tolerated !!!!

 

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24 minutes ago, Arran said:

HI All

at some point i will probably take the plunge but i have been waiting to see if 45ft reefers become more prevalent on the rails in the UK and Ireland , and they seem to be even in Ireland 

 

Regards Arran  

 

PS Now get out and get that Bell Bulk on the move,  No excuses will be tolerated !!!!

 

That'd be awesome, specially when (not if...) IRM launch P47!

45' boxes seem to dominate the rails in Ireland at the moment, and with current-livery 201's on the way from Murphy Models, it would be great to have some 45' boxes to haul around on 47' wagons behind them.

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After an absence of over twenty years it was great to see the BELL lines bulk thirty foot container on Irish railways in March 2021,

218 is seen here hauling the IWT liner about one mile south of its destination of the freight yard in Ballina  

Here are a few photos of the occasion. 
 

579A9C71-5CEA-4787-B27C-08B8036093AF.jpeg

9732AE4F-EB2D-4118-A61B-7A35BF370B3A.jpeg

5264BD63-210D-4D94-87B7-B30F970D8CD3.jpeg

B35769A7-D986-4C97-AED4-8005242D42C8.jpeg

329CA6AC-39FF-426D-90DB-528C2AC86495.jpeg

628B230F-C8CE-4EA8-B450-2A1C34B60D8A.jpeg

On 6/3/2021 at 9:49 AM, Arran said:

 

 

PS Now get out and get that Bell Bulk on the move,  No excuses will be tolerated !!!!

 

I did Arran..... and see above photos for the result......looking forward to the model version......:tumbsup:

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2 minutes ago, murphaph said:

That's mad looking. Like a ghost of a bygone era. Are there many fallen flag Bells still knocking about in Ireland? (I live in Germany and never see them here). 

I have seen them lying around road haulage yards with the BELL logos painted out...but this was a first for an active load carrying BELL bulk to appear.

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1 minute ago, jhb171achill said:

In a livery as old as that, who actually owns it now? Is it routine for container companies to repaint containers they buy second hand or inherit?

Originated in the UK, so no idea who owns it...Built in 1995 according to the plate located on the door.

4 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Is that a 47' that it's sitting on?

Yes it is.

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Question:

It's pretty obvious to anyone here that my personal interests go back to pre-1970, and the late steam era in particular, so this might seem like a silly question, as "modern image" is not at all my area of expertise;

Why is it that in Ireland we have to have tiny little goods trains of only 18 wagons? I know they did tests with more, but decades ago they were well able to operate trains of twice that length and weight. So it can't be weight, it's can't be station size, it certainly isn't lack of power from a 201 or 071?

Other countries seem to be able to operate interminably long goods trains.............

I see the Taras passing my window daily. Three laden trips to Dublin port. Great for us enthusiasts, but with as little as 6 or 8 wagons, and usually 10, 11 or 12. An 071 should be able to lift almost all in one go, I would have thought?

I hope there's a practical reason; I would hate to think that some anti-rail jobsworth has decreed that it's "unsafe", or that operating anything longer contravenes section 34.860/2a of some obscure and restrictive set of rules that don't seem to bother any other EU country!

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11 minutes ago, ttc0169 said:

Originated in the UK, so no idea who owns it...Built in 1995 according to the plate located on the door.

Yes it is.

So, we have the 30' Bell Bulks and mmmmmaaaaayyyyyyybeeeeee some 45' boxes on the way from Arran...

We have the 2021 livery 201's on the way from Paddy Murphy...

And the 47' Flats are the missing piece of the puzzle!

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13 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Question:

It's pretty obvious to anyone here that my personal interests go back to pre-1970, and the late steam era in particular, so this might seem like a silly question, as "modern image" is not at all my area of expertise;

Why is it that in Ireland we have to have tiny little goods trains of only 18 wagons? I know they did tests with more, but decades ago they were well able to operate trains of twice that length and weight. So it can't be weight, it's can't be station size, it certainly isn't lack of power from a 201 or 071?

Other countries seem to be able to operate interminably long goods trains.............

I see the Taras passing my window daily. Three laden trips to Dublin port. Great for us enthusiasts, but with as little as 6 or 8 wagons, and usually 10, 11 or 12. An 071 should be able to lift almost all in one go, I would have thought?

I hope there's a practical reason; I would hate to think that some anti-rail jobsworth has decreed that it's "unsafe", or that operating anything longer contravenes section 34.860/2a of some obscure and restrictive set of rules that don't seem to bother any other EU country!

And it seems to be more the practice now to have just one 20ft Tanker Container on each wagon  whereas 10 / 15 years ago, there were more examples of 2 per wagon.

Is it less volume of transport nownow so the trains are the length they are and spaced out with one 20ft per wagon?

Screenshot_20210307-135237_Gallery.jpg

Screenshot_20210307-140145_YouTube.jpg

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14 minutes ago, Rob said:

And it seems to be more the practice now to have just one 20ft Tanker Container on each wagon  whereas 10 / 15 years ago, there were more examples of 2 per wagon.

Is it less volume of transport nownow so the trains are the length they are and spaced out with one 20ft per wagon?

Screenshot_20210307-135237_Gallery.jpg

Screenshot_20210307-140145_YouTube.jpg

I had the same question in my mind. Why sometimes one tanktainer per flat, sometimes two per flat, sometimes on 42' flats, sometimes on 47' flats, and why sometimes there are only GCA's or only Bruhn's, and sometimes both...

Suspect that the single vs. double practice is loaded vs. unloaded...

Common sense pointed out by Mr. @murphaph

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Due to the weight of a 20ft Bulk-Tainer / Bulk Tank when loaded only one is permissible on a flat wagon positioned in the centre to keep axle loadings within tolerance. Trains which have 2x tanks per flat wagon are empty.
 

In relation maximum lengths of trains in Ireland passing loops are relatively short and are maxed out at 36TEUs (or 18x 42/47ft liner flats or 12x 62ft timber / PW flats). As regards Tara Mines trains they are limited to 12x laden wagons due to their weight (circa 900 tons gross weight per train?). Generally speaking Irish train weights have been quite low in comparison to Europe, the 071s are probably capable of hauling up to 1000 tons but train weights also have to factor in things such as braking distance, acceleration, frictional resistance etc.

Edited by Vlak
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30 minutes ago, Vlak said:

Due to the weight of a 20ft Bulk-Tainer / Bulk Tank when loaded only one is permissible on a flat wagon positioned in the centre to keep axle loadings within tolerance.

Trains which have 2x tanks per flat wagon are empty.

Never knew that all the years l've been watching them- cheers for that.

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2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Why is it that in Ireland we have to have tiny little goods trains of only 18 wagons? I know they did tests with more, but decades ago they were well able to operate trains of twice that length and weight. So it can't be weight, it's can't be station size, it certainly isn't lack of power from a 201 or 071?

I have no idea and would also like to know the reason. Why run three Tara's daily when it could be reduced to two, or even one?

This is an extract of regulations published in 2019 on train lengths (full document in in the resources forum), but no reason is given.

Except where specifically authorised, the number of vehicles attached to fully braked freight trains must not exceed 36 Twenty-foot Equivalent Units (TEUs). For the purpose of calculating train lengths, one 18.6 m (62’ 9”) bogie wagon or one 22 m bogie pocket wagon is counted as 3 TEUs, all other bogie wagon types are counted as 2 TEUs and 2-axle wagons are counted as 1 TEU.

On a selfish note I'm not complaining because a great reason for modelling Irish railways is that prototypical train lengths is possible.

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2 hours ago, Ironroad said:

I have no idea and would also like to know the reason. Why run three Tara's daily when it could be reduced to two, or even one?

This is an extract of regulations published in 2019 on train lengths (full document in in the resources forum), but no reason is given.

Hopefully my above post sheds some light on the restriction to train lengths in Ireland.

As regards the Tara Mines trains when they are short formed (ie say 6 or 8 wagons instead of 12) this is due to the type of material they are carrying. There are two types of mineral ores extracted from Tara Mines; Zinc and Lead. If memory serves me correctly trains wouldn’t normally run with both lead and zinc in the formation due to unloading complications at Dublin Port. Rather trains containing lead are moved separately to zinc.

As I understand it (and am open to correction!) if there is a shipment of say 1,000 tons of Zinc out of Dublin Port it will equate to a total of 20x wagons carrying 50 tons each. This would either require 2x trains of 10x wagons or more likely 1x train of 12x wagons with the second having just 8x to deliver the required tonnage.

Often railways world wide move bulk cargo in tonnages based on the customer’s request. If more than what’s been requested can be accommodated on one train the extra wagons are either operated on their own or else tagged onto a separate train which passes it’s intended delivery point in order for the railway company to complete the full delivery. 

Edited by Vlak
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6 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

 

Why is it that in Ireland we have to have tiny little goods trains of only 18 wagons? I know they did tests with more, but decades ago they were well able to operate trains of twice that length and weight. So it can't be weight, it's can't be station size, it certainly isn't lack of power from a 201 or 071?

Other countries seem to be able to operate interminably long goods trains.............

 

While a maximum 65 (33bogie) train length was allowed on some routes in loose coupled days maximum tonnage hauled are similar to current day loadings as loose coupled wagons were lighter and had a lower load capacity than more modern stock. (laden corrugated beet wagon 18T gross-Ballast hopper 29.5T).

Although crossing loops tended to be shorter in loose coupled days lay-by sidings up to a mile in length were provided for crossing trains that were longer than crossing loops on single line sections that carried heavy goods traffic such as Dublin-Galway and the Mayo Line.

I suppose the bigger questions is whether apart from Tara, Ballina Beverages & Coillte there there is another shipper in Ireland capable of loading a 36TEU train to run from a single factory or a transport depot in Cork, Limerick, Galway, Belfast or Sligo to Dublin or Waterford Ports.

CIE struggled to load 15 bogie 30TEU trains even before raod haulage was de-regulated in Ireland during the early 1990s.

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9 hours ago, ttc0169 said:

628B230F-C8CE-4EA8-B450-2A1C34B60D8A.jpeg

This shot probably says it all. In a weird way, you have the past and present coming together. Very strange to look at indeed, not that I'm complaining mind!  

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12 hours ago, JasonB said:

This shot probably says it all. In a weird way, you have the past and present coming together. Very strange to look at indeed, not that I'm complaining mind!  

Very true Jason-you can add the future to the past and present as Ballina has recently undergone substantial investment to the freight yard-both tracks have been relaid and concreted over along with the addition of new tower lighting and an extension for loading containers and timber at the Manulla end of the yard. 
See photo below.....
 

41A80C8D-100C-4FCA-AF50-FE3F082ECFA9.jpeg

Edited by ttc0169
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  • 1 month later...

HI ALL

IFF came before UBC so yes they did , and Den hartogh bought out interbulk who owned UBC , and im not aware of seeing that name back then.

IFF stood for International ferry freight which became IBC then UBC 

Regards Arran

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 7/3/2021 at 12:17 PM, ttc0169 said:

After an absence of over twenty years it was great to see the BELL lines bulk thirty foot container on Irish railways in March 2021,

218 is seen here hauling the IWT liner about one mile south of its destination of the freight yard in Ballina  

Here are a few photos of the occasion. 
 

579A9C71-5CEA-4787-B27C-08B8036093AF.jpeg

9732AE4F-EB2D-4118-A61B-7A35BF370B3A.jpeg

5264BD63-210D-4D94-87B7-B30F970D8CD3.jpeg

B35769A7-D986-4C97-AED4-8005242D42C8.jpeg

329CA6AC-39FF-426D-90DB-528C2AC86495.jpeg

628B230F-C8CE-4EA8-B450-2A1C34B60D8A.jpeg

I did Arran..... and see above photos for the result......looking forward to the model version......:tumbsup:

Has that Bell Bulk been seen since?

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52 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Has that Bell Bulk been seen since?

It was loaded onto the rear wagon of the IWT liner this afternoon in Ballina freight yard-it will be hauled by 073 on Monday morning to Northwall. 

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On 8/5/2021 at 9:12 PM, ttc0169 said:

It was loaded onto the rear wagon of the IWT liner this afternoon in Ballina freight yard-it will be hauled by 073 on Monday morning to Northwall. 

The one in Ballina this week is actually a different unit.. 

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