railfan222

Hi all,

I am just curious to know why did the Connolly-Rosslare intercity services switch pernamently over to DMU operation in July 2004? What were the reasons?

Regards Kian.

Hi all,

I am just curious to know why did the Connolly-Rosslare intercity services switch pernamently over to DMU operation in July 2004? What were the reasons?

Regards Kian.

On 26/8/2021 at 2:12 PM, hexagon789 said:

These are Mark 2B design coaches which NIR ordered new from BREL in 1969 and which entered service on a "re-launched" Belfast-Dublin Enterprise.

 

The so-called Gatwicks were second-hand from GB Train Operating Company Gatwick Express (hence the nickname) where they were used in push-pull sets with Class 73 Electro-Diesels and ex-2HAP Driving Motor Baggage Cars. They were replaced on Gatwick by Class 460 EMUS.

The Gatwicks as used by NIR are Mark 2F design with air-conditioning, originally ordered by BR in 1972 for the West Coast Main Line. 

The particular Gatwick ones were previously used on the Midland Main Line between London St Pancras and Nottingham/Sheffield, rendered surplus by HSTs being introduced to the route in 1982/3 they were modified into fixed 2/3-car sets for a re-launched Gatwick Express which was then run as a dedicated non-stop Express service.

Translink obtained 4 of these coach sets in 2001 (married pairs of two coaches), they were withdrawn in 2005 but soon re-instated to provide extra capacity. Although a Driving Trailer (an ex-ONE Mk2F DBSO) was obtained to allow the set to run push-pull, the set was never converted and was withdrawn in 2009. 

The origins of NIR acquiring the former Mark 2F Gatwicks can be traced back to NIR being short of 80 Class DEMUs.

By 2000 with a severe shortage of 80 Class DEMUs, NIR operated a 111+6 Mark 2s (formerly used  on the Enterprise service) on a daily Portadown to Belfast Great Victoria Street. There was no evening working for these 6 Mark 2s. Every morning a 111+6 Mark 2s would operate empty from Belfast York Road to Portadown to work the 07:50 Portadown to Belfast Great Victoria Street. After working the 07:50 Portadown-Great Victoria Street the 111 and 6 Mark 2s would work empty back to York Road.

From reading the June 2000 IRRS Journal, the 6 Mark 2s in use on the 07:50 Portadown to Belfast Great Victoria Street were suffering from corrosion. Rather than over overhaul them (bar 911 the generator car), NIR purchased 8 Mark 2F coaches when Gatwick Express withdrew them in favour of 460 EMUs.  To provide the power for a 9 coach train (including the generator van), coach 911 was rebuilt into a full BG (Brake Generator) which saw the coach renumbered to 8911, the full seating areas of the passenger coach part removed, 2 big generators installed and all passenger windows removed and plated over. Also integral lights were fitted to the north/Belfast End of the BG 8911 and also an 80 Class DEMU driving trailer panel.

There are 2 things I find questionable. Why did NIR come up with a plan to replace their NIR Mark 2Bs with French built De Detrichs shared with IE? Why did NIR store some of their NIR Mark 2s after the De Detrichs went into traffic? Finally what year did the NIR Mark 2s stop running into Dublin? It is stated on the IRM history that NIR's Mark 2s could still be found working the cross border route into 1999.

Regards Kian.

Hi all,

I have got a few questions to ask. I would be grateful if anyone could answer.

First Question: Why did IE have to open up public consultation to the public to have their say on the DART extensions to Maynooth, M3 Parkway, Halzelhatch and Drogheda?

Second Question: Why did IE extend the DART to Malahide and Greystones in 2000? What were the reasons?

Third Question: What will be the frequency of DARTs in both directions between Hazelhatch, Maynooth, M3 Parkway and Drogheda? 

Fourth Question: Why were Alstom products of the late 90s/early 2000s very bad runners? The 2700s had issues running at 6 cars in length. Why was this so? 

Regards Kian. 

On 7/2/2022 at 5:43 PM, K801 said:

I hope someone brings out a 8101/8301 model before they are gone

There is ECM Trains who solely make DART 8100 EMUs.

Regards Kian.

Hi all,

Got a few questions to ask as I am curious.

First Question: Were the Murphy Models Cravens, 201s, 071s and 121s produced by Bachmann? If so was it Kader Holdings who produced them? The packaging got with the Cravens and Mark 2s (produced from 2011) don't feature any Bachmann Branchline logos on them like the packaging for the 141s and 181s.

Second Question: Why is Paddy Murphy selling his products on Irish Railway Models?

Third Question: What factory is making IRM's locos, wagons and coaches? Is it the Accurscale Factory?

Fourth Question: Is IRM helping Murphy Models with the production run of the new 201s, Mark 2s and Mark 3s?

I would be grateful for anyone who could answer my questions.    

On 21/6/2020 at 1:27 PM, ttc0169 said:

https://www.connemararailway.ie/

More progress yesterday with the temporary narrow gauge tracks being laid towards the Galway city direction,

Exciting times ahead when after the open day (TBC) the standard 5' 3'' track will replace the temporary narrow gauge and will permit the use of former MGWR and CIE rolling stock to be used  at this scenic location.

There is a go fund me page in the link if you would wish to donate to this worthy cause.

A few photos from relaying operations over the last few weeks

Why are they first laying narrow gauge railway and then turning it into a standard gauge railway. Why?  

Regards Kian.

On 13/12/2021 at 12:51 PM, flange lubricator said:

Lets hope so as they will be running out of room in Inchicore to store all these mistakes !!!

 

What ever was wrong with the 8200s? Did they keep on breaking down or did it just simply be hard to get spare parts? The 8200s are surly the shortest ever DART EMUs ever in service.

10 hours ago, BosKonay said:

Heh. Correct. I was simply giving the ballpark that at best you are looking at a year from engineering samples to delivery. And that’s if you can nail down factory slots. So once you’ve seen physical samples you can assume anything is about a year or so away. 

Is Boskonay one of the team members at IRM?

Will Paddy Murphy really be releasing models of Cravens again and the BR Van/GSV?

Regards Kian.

2 hours ago, BosKonay said:

Not wishing to speak for Mr.  Murphy but with timelines as they are in China at the moment, we shared fully finished tooling samples of the Mark 2b coaches last August and we should have them in stock by this August. 

Are IRM supporting Murphy Models with the production of the 201s and Mark 3s? Any any cad designs for the new 201s in at any stage? If so It would be nice to see them.

I am really really a fan of the 201s. I like their noise they make whenever the driver opens up the notch controller.

Regards Kian. 

Hi all,

Does anyone know when the new Murphy Models 201s and Mark 3s are going to be coming out?

Regards Kian.

2 minutes ago, flange lubricator said:

Yes its the side of the mock up of the MK3 pp

Wow it is kind of very odd that in the end they (IE) decided not to build the Mark 3 Push/Pulls with double leaf doors. I do wonder why they did not proceed with this?

Nice to see that whenever IE bought former MK2s in 1990 and the former BREL International Train coaches in 1994, the semi state company (IE that is)  had the staff do refurbish them up. Rather than getting them done up in the UK by contractors.

Now I do need to ask the following since I am curious

Q1: Where the Inchicore built Mark 3s made out of steel from Ireland or the UK?

Q2: Is the carriage shop at Inchicore now the FCR (Fleet Casualty Repair) shop? The FCR shops in Inchicore are where loco and coaches getting repairs done on them.

Q3: In that picture of a 111 stopped at a red signal with a feather, where was that photo taken?

Regards Kian. 

On 9/9/2021 at 7:05 PM, seagoebox said:

some more CIE Mk2 pics...

And for reasons of balance..... a few Executive NIR Mk2's...

In one of those pictures above I see a orange and black bodyshell with 2 double leaf doors in what appears to be Inchicore Carriage Building Shed. Was that the bodyshell for the proposed Mark 3 based railcars or a mock up of the push pull intermediates with double leaf doors?

Regards Kian.

18 minutes ago, Mayner said:

 "Push Pull Control Car Layout"  The drawing appears to have been literally 'hot off the press"  as the revision was approved and CMEs Department released the drawing to me on 22/3/1989

I am not sure if the bogies are a LHB or a BREL design. 

BREL used similar bogies on contemporary MK3 based EMUs and Sprinter DMUs

The original drawing is to 1:75 scale and too large to scan on the home printer.

 

 

Title caption of CIE diagram of "Intermediate Car for proposed Railcars Set date 17/10/1986 which gives an indication of the time-line of the project.

 

Like the IC125 trains the IE Push Pull sets are a good example of what can be achieved by experienced railway engineers and managers using limited resources when a hi-tech solution is not achievable or affordable.

The MK3 Push Pull sets resulted in a big improvement in passenger accommodation replacing the Park Royals on Pearse-Drogheda suburban services while allowing IE to work within its capital budget.

The introduction of the MK2AC and International Train allowed IE to strengthen its passenger fleet when capital to buy or build new Intercity rolling stock was unavailable.

The MK2AC stock was acquired in a swap with Vic Berry for B201 Class locomotives, the International Train is likely to have been acquired from BREL at a substantially lower price than building a similar train.

The big drawback is that an organisation that has been forced to make do and mend for generations tends to loose control when the purse strings are opened.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very good drawings by the IE CME team. I understand now that before the Mark 3 Push/Pulls there were the Park Royals and hauled by the smaller GMs of the 121s, 141s and 181s.

How did IE have the ability to fit push/pull capability to the 121s? It seemed that IE were okay with the 121s using their fixed buffers and chain couplers for push/pull working. While with the non push/pull 201s, they were just left to rot outside in Inchicore.       

It seems that for decades most of the Dublin suburban trains were loco hauled instead of DMU operated. Like with the C201 Class locos. It seemed that CIE really did care about how old the Metrovick C201 locos were when their branchlines closed and so they retrofitted them with push/pull capability and used them with converted AEC Railcar sets until the DART.

It is really a simple job to retrofit a fleet of locos not equipped with push/pull to push/pull capable.

The Mark 3 Push/Pull driving cab interiors do look nice.

Regards Kian. 

Hi all

I thought I would discuss the topic of couplers on the 201s:

All of the push/pull fitted 201s (including NIR 208 and 209) all came with buckeyes fitted onto the long couplers. When all 22 IE 201s were commissioned, IE took off the buckeyes and only fitted them on if a 201 was going to work a Mark 3 Push/Pull.

When a push/pull fitted 201 would be working a non push/pull trains or freight train, They would wear red couplers on both ends held on with a screw holder as seen in the photo I took in 2020. Please note that this photo was taken using the zoom function of the camera I used then, 

In the 2nd photo I took in 2021 shows that the red screw couplers on the push/pull 201s wear when not working push/pull trains were replaced with these blue couplers. 

Regards Kian O'Leary

7 minutes ago, Bob229 said:

The problem is we have been spoiled with the standard of Irish RTR rolling stock in the last few years from both Murphy Models and IRM, models we could only dream about 15 years ago, we have higher expectations so for some the 201 might not reach those standards or they may not like the 201, but as the last IE diesel loco to be bought by IE it will become popular and for those modelling the current scene the 201 is a must so looking forward to PM new 201 model no doubt the standard will be high 

 

It really is nice that Paddy took the decision to release new models of the 201s and MK3s 20 years after Lima produced some.

It is a shame that Paddy never released models of the MK4s and De Detrichs to go with the IC (InterCity) and Enterprise 201s. The New IC 201s will essentially be a reskin of the original IC livery with the current Iarnrod Eireann Irish Rail logo and no Iarnrod Eireann wording underneath the cab windows. Aswell as with the new curved LED marker lights.

It will be interesting too to see the Mark 3s. For some reason Paddy never seemed to release models by Lima of the Mark 3 composites, CityGolds and EGVs.

It is also nice to see Irish Railway Models release models of the Enterprise Mark 2s. I find it hard to imagine that the origins of the NIR Mark 2s were due to the newly formed NIR deciding for new locos and coaches for the relaunch of the Enterprise. Before the NIR 101s and MK2s, there were MPDs and 70 Class DEMUs on the Belfast to Dublin trains.

After the introduction of the new De Detrich coaches in 1997, all NIR MK2s were removed from Enterprise workings. Although a requirement for a new peak 07:50 Portadown-Belfast working meant a brake generator (with Standard Class accommodation) and a few MK2s were kept for use by a 111. I believe that sadly the NIR MK2s were getting badly corroded and so NIR looked for better coaches. In 2000 they were able to acquire 8 former MK2F coaches from Gatwick Express. The availability of NIR being able to acquire the MK2Fs being due to Gatwick Express getting new Class 460s.

The original bogies of the then badly corroding MK2s were reused for the 8 former Gatwick MK2Fs. Only brake generator standard 911 was kept. 911 was rebuilt into a full brake by having the seating removed to make way for 2 generators. The MK2F Gatwicks and generator van were in use from 2002-2005 and from 2006-2009.           

The 201s are a very fine locomotive I must say.

It is a shame that Irish Rail were slow to upgrade all bridges to take the 201 locomotive's weight. Also I read it in a 2007 Railway Herald magazine that the situation of Irish Rail's network required a high degree of reliability to operate effectively and as such the company decided to move away from the loco hauled approach.

Also it is stated that the scheme of having the MK4s operate with power cars at both ends of the sets was discarded and instead repainted 201s with DVTs were introduced. Odd to think IE originally wanted to run the MK4s with 2 power cars. I must say Irish Rail really care for their 201s since they put them to use on the MK4s.

13 hours ago, murphaph said:

Did the oil transfer train ever make regular trips to Inchicore Works? Were/are locos fuelled at Inchicore or more at Heuston?

I believe that nowadays refueling is done in both Inchicore and Heuston and Connolly. For a period in May 2021, I noticed that when a 201+MK4 would come into Cork, before the 201 and MK4 would head back to Dublin, the loco and MK4 set would need refueling at Cork. I believe this was due to the refueling points at Heuston undergoing repair.   

Mayner

Your answer you gave still does not seem good to me. I have to ask the following:

1: Why couldn't have Irish Rail have simply build the control cars with traction equipment and then merged 4 of them into 2 sets of Mark 3 based railcars. Why would the Irish Government reject IE's desire to have commuter railcars.

2: Why would the Goverment reject  proposals for the MK2s to be push/pull trains?

Regards Kian. 

Hi all,

Why was the application IE made for diesel railcars rejected and instead they had to adapt Mark 3 push/pull intermediates and DVTs?

Most rail operators had at this point had gone for DMUs and EMUs for suburban duties. Why could IE have not just simply made the control cars of the Mark 3 push/pulls into railcar driving cars and stick 2 or 4 intermediates into the driving cars. Then you would have a MK3 railcar.

The idea of MK3 push/pull meant that 121s had to be robbed from their main duties to operate in single formation with 6 push/pull coaches.

I do hope to get a good response from anyone in the know.

Regards Kian O'Leary.   

There are indeed a number of modelling inaccuracies on the Murphy Models 201s:

1: NIR 208 and 209 in NIR blue: The marker lights on the real life 208 and 209 when they were blue were the same original marker lights as the other IE 201s. The 2014 released models of 208 and 209 in NIR blue show the locos with the rectangle shaped LED markers which first appeared on all 201s (including 208 and 209) from 2000 onwards with the last 201 upgraded to have rectangle shaped LED markers in 2003.

Also inaccurate on Murphy Models 208 & 209 is the postion of the AAR socket for push-pull working and multiple loco working. When all IE and NIR 201s were delivered, the AAR socket used to be down on the skirt. From 1996-1997 all 201s had the AAR socket re-positioned to just next to the headlight. I am pretty sure 208 and 209 only ever got their AAR sockets re-positioned from the skirt to right beside the headlight when the 2 NIR locos were repainted from NIR blue into the IE/NIR Enterprise livery.

2: The models of 233 incorrectly show her with purple thumbnails instead of the current pink thumbnails. Of interest is that the pink thumbnails of the original Enterprise  livery was applied to both the  Enterprise 201s and the Standard Class De Detrich coaches.

3: Murphy Models MM0201 was released with her sockets right next to the headlights. In real life 201 and 204 still have their sockets (the AARs) still in the original postion.

Murphy Models have to date released models of the 201s made by Kader Holdings with some locos with their footsteps below the marker lights open and some closed. Aswell as with the rectangle shaped LED marker lights. The different marker lights worn by the 201s is as follows.

1: Original 1994 marker lights. Between 2000-2003 these were replaced with LED markers.

2: Rectangle shaped marker LED lights: These started to appear on all IE and NIR locos from 2000 onwards.

3: Oval shaped LED markers: These appeared for the first time in 2014 when 8209 came out of Inchicore. The oval shaped marker lights began to be put on all IE and NIR 201s between 2014-2018 with 229 being the last to get the oval shaped LED markers.

Regards Kian O'Leary.