Bóithre Iarainn

4 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Ground that can never be walked too often! There was almost a stay of execution for the SLNCR when talk was made of keeping Omagh-Enniskillen open as a long siding for cattle traffic from the west. Realistically it would have to have shut by about 1960 anyway I think. The PW was knackered and even the 1951-delivered tanks were ailing. As roads and car ownership developed in the SLNC catchment area, it would have been used less and less and was bound to collapse in the short term. Mind you, that doesn’t stop me imagining G and C class locos cascaded into SLNC ownership staggering on until the 1980s  David Briggs did a nice ‘what if’ painting of a 2000s Enniskillen, with the SLNC under IE running.

 

That's a great painting! I had wondered if the SLNCR could have survived in a similar fashion to the Burma Road, lingering on for freight into the 60s or even 70s. 

Hi all,

Under the 1953 Act that created the GNRB, Cavan-Portadown, Dundalk-Clones-Enniskillen-Derry, and Bundoran Junction-Bundoran (along with Dublin-Belfast) were all defined as common service lines owing to the fact that they served both jurisdictions. The Act gave the Irish government the power to subsidise these lines in their entirety in the event of Stormont wanting to close them, but, of course, that didn't happen. What would have been the likely outcome had the Irish government been willing to subsidise these lines? Would the GNRB have survived? I assume it would for political reasons, but for how long? What would have been the fate of the SLNCR? Presumably merely a stay of execution? And what about the remainder of the Derry Road which was not a common service line? 

I'm sure this topic has been discussed many times before, so apologies if I'm re-treading old ground.

On 23/2/2024 at 6:03 PM, jhb171achill said:

OK, here we go. This is 13.1.1986 until further notice; turns out I don't have 1987, but it's likely exactly the same. Trains in BOLD run every day; others are just paths and may or may not run.

Down trains:

00:25  Shelton - Abbey - Galway fertiliser PATH dep. Mullingar 05:50, arr. Athlone 06:46     Loco: 001

09:35  Shelton Abbey - Ballinasloe fertiliser PATH dep. Mullingar 15:30, arr. Athlone 16:41    (Stop scheduled moate 16:07-16:230; reason not apparent, probably to fit in with paths west of Athlone)  Loco: 001

18:50  North Wall - Ballina Asahi Liner  Pass Mullingar 20:43, arr. Athlone 21:36   Loco: 001

21:45  Connolly - Galway Mail  Dep. Athlone 23:07, Moate 23:36-23:51 (Crosses up train), Athlone 00:16.  Loco: 121    On Saturdays, this runs earlier, dep. Connolly 19:50, dep. Mullingar 21:14, arr. Athlone 22:15 

Up trains:

22:35  Ballina - Shelton Abbey Empty Fertiliser PATH  dep. Athlone 00:40, arr. Mullingar 01:30. leaves at 02:25.  Loco: 001

02:25  Ballina - North Wall Asahi Liner (Tues - Sat) dep. Athlone 05:27, pass Mullingar 06:19.   Loco: 001

22:00  Galway - Connolly Mail  dep. Athlone 23:20, Moate 23:45-23:48 (crosses down train), arr. Mullingar 00:18  Loco: 141

SUNDAYS

No regular trains, but three DOWN paths and two UP paths for Knock specials from PEARSE, motive power not specified for any of them.

 

Note: Two down paths for ferts, butn only one up; the other obviously going via Portarlington when it runs. Also, the WTT shows a 121 for the down mail and a 141 for the up working. Of course, these could be interchangeable.

These two mail trains, which crossed at Moate between 23:36 and 23:51, were the only trains on the line by then (and for quite a few years earlier), which carried passengers.

Hope this helps.

 

JB

 

 

 

Fantastic stuff Jonathan, thank you for going to the trouble of getting this for me! Do you know why the Asahi liner ran via Mullingar instead of Portarlington for a time? Was it simply a lack of capacity on the latter route?

On 23/2/2024 at 7:42 PM, Mayner said:

The 15:40 SO Ballina-Connolly would have been intended to return people who spent the weekend in the West (workers and 3rd level students) to Dublin this was the return working of a FO Heuston-Ballina working.  The train was likely to be worked by coaches normally used on a Dublin outer suburban service, probably simpler for the train to return to Connolly via Mullingar for cleaning and servicing, than a Heuston busy with evening arrivals and a need to back out to Island Bridge Junction to run to Connolly via the Phoenix Park Tunnel.

The Asahi Liner was diverted to run via Tullamore and the 4w flats used to transport Acrylonitrile and other hazardous chemicals replaced by bogie wagons to increase the permitted speed of the train from 35 to 50mph.  The max line speed of 4w container flats was reduced from 50 to 35mph following a series of derailments of Liner Trains with 4w wagons on the Midland during the late 70s-early 80s.

The Up Ashai then using 4w chemical flats de-railed approaching Tullamore in Jan 96 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/reason-why-chemical-train-derailed-still-not-known-1.19863

The Mullingar-Athlone line was out of use and weed grown in place while I was working-living in Athlone during the Summer-Autumn of 96, although the ballast and sleepers appeared in good condition the rails 90lb/Yd from the 1920s were worn "burred over" requiring replacement if the line was to continue in operation..

 

Thanks again Mayner! Do you know if Moate station was open for passengers by that stage or did it shut in 1973? The closure date given in various places online is May 1987, but I can't imagine there were many passengers alighting from one train on Sundays or the late night mail trains.

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Correct, as Mayner points out the date of the last REGULAR services.

But also, there were indeed many one-offs, excursions, diversions and the like; RPSI, Knock & GAA specials. These would be in weekly circulars rather than timetables, and sometimes at a moments notice so not even in them!

I’ll post 1987 WTT details later.

Thank you very much!

On 21/2/2024 at 8:39 PM, jhb171achill said:

Tell me what year you want. I have most WTTs for that period.

 

I'm not exactly sure of the year unfortunately. I'm most interested in finding out when the last regular scheduled freight and passenger trains ran, as well as the final train of any sort (other than the weedsprayer and inspection car, which I know about). I think passenger trains finally ceased in 1987, Mayner informs me that the 15:40 Sundays only Ballina-Connolly service was the last regular passenger train, so I assume this was it. But I've read about (unspecified) passenger trains being diverted onto the Mullingar-Athlone section after this and eiretrains.com has a photo of a panel train at Streamstown in April 2000. Sorry if that's too vague a request! It's always fascinated me that this line lingered on for quite some time after regular traffic ceased, unlike most of the 'closed' but extant lines. 

On 21/2/2024 at 8:32 PM, Mayner said:

The Mails (Day and Night), Special Passenger Trains (Knock, GAA, etc), Scheduled long distance goods trains and specials (Livestock to late 75, Fertiliser and Bagged Cement (Post 1977) continued to run over the Mullingar Line after the majority of Galway and Mayo Line passenger trains were diverted to run by Mullingar.

I haven't the WTT for the 70s:  The "Day Mails" departed Dun-Laoire Pier for Galway following the arrival of the overnight "Mail Boat" from Hollyhead calling at Connolly at some time between 08:00 and 08:30 arriving Galway Mid-Morning. The Up Day Mail worked by the same train set departed Galway Mid-Afternoon timed to connect with the evening Mail Boat departure to Hollyhead (around 8pm).  The Day-Mails were diverted to run to and from Heuston with a bus connection to and from Dunlaoire with the rail connection to Dunlaoire Pier disconnected in connection with the DART Works

The Day Mails tended to be heavy trains of conventional coaching stock potentially loading up to 10 bogies hauled by a OO1 Class Loco.

Galway and Mayo Line Goods Trains were loosed coupled consisting largely of 4w short wheelbase wagons up to the changeover to Liner Train operation in the late 70s. Goods would depart North Wall, and their Provincial Terminals in the evening crossing and possibly changing train crews en-route. 

Liner Trains made up of fully braked wagons usually departed North Wall in the early evening working through to their provincial terminal, before departing for Dublin during the early hours of the morning worked by the same rake of wagons and loco.

The Night Mails were made up mainly of bogie vans, postal vehicles and a coach for intending passengers  in 1980 scheduled to depart Connolly at 20:00 and Galway at 22:00 crossing at Moate between 23:45 and 23:50 for traffic purposes and presumably a crew change. The Night Mails were scheduled to be worked by 121 Class in the 1980 WTT but tended to be actually worked by a 141 or 181 Class.

The other "Regular" scheduled passenger train over the Mullingar-Athlone Line was the 15:40 Sunday only Ballina-Connolly passenger scheduled to depart Athlone 17:53 arrive in Mullingar 18:41, this train made up of conventional stock scheduled for 001 haulage was hauled by a 141 when I saw the train 5-6 coaches passing Enfield on evening in 84-5.

The Asahi Liner was the only regular Liner Train scheduled to work over the line during the 80s-early 90s. Departing North Wall early evening, usually returning to Dublin Mid morning. Scheduled in 1990 WTT to Depart NW 19:40 Mullingar 21:46 arr Athlone 22:41.  Return train scheduled to depart Athlone 09:00 arr Mullingar 09:54.

The Night Mails were diverted to run via Tullamore  some time after the opening of the new Athlone Station east of the Shannon and later became a Liner-Mail without passenger accommodation.  Between the opening of the new station and diversion of the Night Mail to run via Tullamore a Pilot loco was based at Athlone to assist the Mail in backing movements in and out of the new station (Train topped and tailed by a loco)

Between the mid 90s and the ending of Liner Train operation Galway was served by a Trip working from Galway to Athlone which connected with the North Wall Claremorris Liner at Athlone.

Besides the scheduled passenger and liner trains, there were two outward and one return Shelton-Galway Fertiliser Paths and three outward and two return Dublin-Claremorris Knock Special paths in the 1980 WTT.

The Knock specials tended to be heavy trains, I once saw a 14 coach Knock Special double headed by a pair of 141s passing Mullingar during the Mid-80s. I was returning on a Sligo-Dublin service train following an IRRS visit to Mayo and Sligo (road-Westport-Sligo!) The Sligo Dublin was blocked at Mullingar to allow the Special to enter the section to Killucan and held again at Killucan to allow the Special to clear the long section ahead to Enfield.

I have the 1980s WTT but the 11 page section covering the Mullingar-Athlone line is too cumbersome to post for a handful of trains

 

 

Many thanks for all of this Mayner! What was the logic behind the 15:40 Sunday only Ballina-Connolly? Also do you know if the Asahi liner ran via Mullingar until the factory closed in 1997? Or was it redirected before that?

I'd hardly say that Ireland is fixating on investing in rail freight. The Foynes line is being backed by the port so I assume they think it will be useful.

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Indeed - tourism figures on any line would convince nobody to reopen it. The Valentia line, despite being one of the most scenic lines this country ever had, and despite being situated in the single most popular area on this island for tourists outside Dublin, would regrettably be one of the least viable to reopen for any purpose. The lack of freight goes without saying. Local population - other than Cahirciveen and Killorglin, no sizeable towns along the route or near it. Plus, a good road (and buses) between Killorglin and Killarney would compete with even a train to there.

So let's look at tourism. The vast, vast, vast majority of tourists who venture out there are doing the Ring of Kerry, more often than not on a coach tour. Those driving themselves - they will drive the whole way, because if they took the train to Cahirciveen, they can't go on round the Ring as they don't have their car!

Coach tour companies will not switch to rail, as it will add to their overheads and result in their having to either run "empty" from their coach bases in Killarney or Tralee to Valentia or Cahirciveen, but also, probably more importantly, because several of the main tour coach sights and stopping points (and where tour guides and bus drivers get commission) are visitor attractions between Killarney and those places; were the travellers on a train, they'd miss all that. Further, the Ring tour goes right on beyond Cahirciveen, round the south side of the peninsula, which would have to be done by bus. I agree, very nice idea - I've often thought the same about the (even less practical) Achill line. However the big issue is costs, as always. Tourism revenue would be small and very seasonal, but even if it WAS huge, the cost of maintaining the extensive engineering works on that line, plus operating the service all year at a heavy loss, would make the overheads many many times the total revenue, let alone that from tourism alone. You mention the Highland lines in Scotland - these are very heavily subsidised too.

That seems fairly conclusive, which is a pity. Not that there'd be much chance of it reopening even it was feasible. I wonder would the same problems apply to the Bundoran line if it had survived? That was meant to be very scenic too I believe, along the shore of Lough Erne. And it actually carried a fairly strong tourist traffic while it was open too.

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

Re Harcourt St: I would not disagree with that; my listing was not exhaustive!

Re a tourist line - the revenue from that, I’m afraid, might cover 5% of the cost of running it. I could trot out a whole pile of info on this but it’s not enough.

I can't imagine those figures convincing many people in the Department. It's a pity though, it would have been a stunning line to travel on. Is the situation the same on the West Highland Line?

On 14/2/2024 at 11:22 PM, jhb171achill said:

Without wanting to divert the thread, a few other howlers I've heard over the years, quite often about more than one line - often, with apparent reference to them all:

(a)  "Sure the railways were all built by the British to control us"        Fact check: Class 1 nonsense in all cases, though the British Govt. DID build the Wolfhill and Deerpark lines in 1918 for the coal.

(b)  "They should never have closed it. It would make a fortune today, what with all the tourists an' all".  Fact check: Class 1 nonsense in all cases.

(c)  "When they closed it, sure they sold off all the scrap to make bombs to drop on the Germans".  Fact check: Class 2 nonsense; ONE line, the Clogher Valley, closed in 1942, did have its track recovered for the war effort.

(d)  "Ah sure, it was only closed due to political jiggery-pokery".  Fact check: In the case of the 1957 GNR / SLNCR closures and the "Derry Road", 100% true. For the closure of West Cork, arguably partly to largely true, likewise the BCDR and Ballycastle narrow gauge. In other cases, 90% - 100% nonsense!

(e)  One I heard implied lately, in this era of uneducated conspiracy theories which suggest that all freely, democratically elected governments are in some sense all inherently evil: "All them closures - sure someone was makin' money outta that, I tell ya. Brown envelopes, y'know". We're back to class 1 nonsense, again......and this time with bells and whistles.

By the way, I like that thing yer man has in his garden! Doesn't bear close scrutiny, but no law says it must! Looks great in his garden!

 

I'm not sure about making a fortune but some of the more scenic lines in the west could surely have become very popular with tourists, like the West Highland line is in Scotland? The Valentia branch might be the most likely candidate as it survived relatively late. Understandably CIÉ didn't have the luxury of maintaining remote lines in case they became popular for tourism but it is a shame one or two weren't kept open long enough for it to become plausible.

I see that you don't include the Harcourt Street lines as being shut due to jiggery-pokery. I take it you disagree with the theory that it was sacrificed to justify rural closures?

Does anyone know anything concrete about the regular services on this line after 1973? I understand there were mail trains and Asahi liners until c.1987 but I can't find much detailed information or dates. How frequently did were these trains and was this all that ran? I also know there were some PWD trains into the 2000s, would anyone have any details about these movements?

Hello all,

In Colin Boocock's 'Locomotive Compendium of Ireland' the author mentions that Northern Ireland Railways purchased six surplus C/201 Class locomotives in 1986 (renumbering them as 104 Class) in order to transport lignite from the Lough Neagh area. I've found a little about the proposed lignite mining at Crumlin and Ballymoney at this time but I've found little that related to rail transport. Does anyone know what the traffic being envisioned actually was? Was NIR planning to rail lignite to Kilroot?

Thanks!

Wonderful photos there warb thank you for sharing!

4 hours ago, Old Blarney said:

The following information is taken from - "Locomotives and Rolling Stock of Coras Iompair Eireann and Northern Ireland Railways -O.Doyle and S Hirsch. March 1969."

Numbered Series 32001 - 32020. Introduced 1978. Builder: Fauvet Girel, France. Length: 42' 6".  Weight: 29 tons Capacity: 46 Tons

Couplings: Screw Brakes: Hand /Vacuum.

There were also Barrier Wagon, two per train, Numbered Series 30279 - 30284. Weight: 17 Tons and their container of Water 20 tons! must also be considered for these train formations.

Built for the carriage of liquid anhydrous ammonia between Nitrigin Eireann Teo plant at marino Point, Cork and Shelton Abbey, Arklow, these wagons are leased from Storage and transport Systems Ltd, London and are painted white with an orange and green underframes.

I believe additional Ammonia wagons were acquired, unfortunately, I have no information on these. I remember seeing a photograph of one or more and I noted they differed in their body design.

Many thanks! That has cleared things up a lot. I must try to get myself a copy of that book, it would be a handy reference to have. I believe I recall reading that there were three additional wagons and they were delivered in 1995.

Thanks Robert, I'll have a look at those drawings

Hello all,

Would anyone happen to know the capacity of the ammonia wagons? I've always been struck by how short these trains were, I believe they ran with only six wagons before being lengthened to nine after the introduction of the 201s. Were these short trains lengths due to the weight or was it a safety precaution?

Somewhat related to this topic, does anyone know why the Limerick shuttle service has always used a bay platform at Limerick Junction rather than the station being remodelled along the lines of Howth Junction, with platforms on the Dublin-Cork and Waterford-Limerick lines? Surely this would allow for a more efficient Limerick to Waterford service after all.

Hello all,

I was reading through IRRS Journal 152 (October 2003) lately and I found a report in the News section about a Norfolk liner that had started between Belview and North Esk. With a bit of googling I also found an article in the Irish Times about the new service (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/iarnrod-eireann-heartened-by-freight-contracts-1.365705#:~.). I did some more digging in the IRRS journals and in Journal 149 (October 2002) there is a reference to Norfolk running a liner from Belview to North Wall and back once a week. This seems to have been on its last legs at the time due to Iarnród Éireann’s imminent decision to relocate the North Wall yard.

Can anyone remember either of these liners or has anyone come across anything about them? I had never heard of Norfolk running liners except for Belview-Ballina. I’m particularly interested in the Belview-North Esk train, as this started at a time when IÉ was withdrawing from freight. Given that I’ve heard nothing else about it, I assume it didn’t survive long, but does anyone know exactly how long it ran for and why it ceased?

While I'm at it I may as well ask about the more well-known Norfolk liner from Ballina to Belview. I know this had quite a chequered history but when exactly did it start running for the first time? 

Thanks!