Buz

Hi Irishswissernie

I thought slotted posts got banned after a tragic 19th century rail disaster in England arm froze in the off position due to winter snow.

Not co acting then?? or are they that has two arms off I did not think that was possible because of interlocking?? that looks weird.

Black white and? the colors on the back of the bracket signal.

Take the bracket off and change it to std semaphore lower quad arms and you have more or less the signal I am asking about that seems to show up at several level crossings some times with an odd arm shaped like a hockey stick and a spectacle plate in or near the center of the arm and some times two std arms

regards John

Hi all

I have while trying to get grips with what makes a railway Irish ,come across pictures of twin armed semaphore signals that appear to be guarding level crossings.

How common was this and how are they operated  they never seem to show a operating lever or signal wire in the picture, also are they co acting arms ie both move together showing same position.

Are they painted different colors to standard signals.

regards John

Hi all

It all comes down to reliability and therefore being cost effective to run.

They got burned with the Crossley (spelling) diesel engines.

Interestingly the WAGR X class locomotives built by Metropolitan Vickers err I think.

These got rejected by one of the Irish 3'6" gauge lines because of the Crossley( spelling) diesel engines.

I wish the WAGR had not bought them the only use they where was starting more bush fires than steam ever did, and where excellent for training apprentice fitters.

With a much better engine in them they could have been a really good locomotive on light rail lines being a 2-DO-2

When the WAGR bought them they still had a lot of low poundage built track in use on what where called either pioneer lines or political line depending on the motivation for the line being built.

The engines had more oil on the outside instead of on the inside where it should be and where notorious for carboning up the exhausts and then when the engine was under high load heating up to a red hot exhaust and spiting out carbon embers and you guessed it starting a line side fire.

Oh and as built they still had the WW1 submarine reversing gear on the engine so you guessed it before the engineers messed about with them it was possible to start the engine running backward not good for the electrics in them.

So why GM because it works.

regards John

23 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

Man alive Buz, 

I have 3 Schools class with Traction tyres and they are possibly the best runners out of everything I have and are great pullers, I've had them now for a good number of years. 

Lack of Spare Tyre's? Try here, there are quite a few to choose from:  https://www.petersspares.com/index.jsp?searchStr=traction+tyres

You have to wonder what the Spares situation will be like for the Irish stuff in years to come,  Already hard to get hhandrails for the 141's. Perhaps a lot of dead locos?

Ask your self why do my three schools class have a part (the traction tyre) that if they had been designed properly they would not need.

In Aus spare parts for any brand of train are hard to get.

On 8/29/2020 at 6:18 PM, murphaph said:

Dead locos? I wouldn't say so. The drivetrain is surely made of generic parts or parts you can substitute. The PCB is a simple passive affair that you could bridge should anything really bad happen.

Handrails can be replicated. I'd say the only thing that will cause a MM loco to be retired is a smashed bodyshell.

Why do I need a PCB board for unless it has pick ups mounted on it.

The motors on my dead ones are had it and Hornby can't or won't supply replacements and they are modern production with throw away motors. I am guessing only one motor fits the Hornby one I cant get

The MM locomotives I have are made by Bachmann for so spare parts should be accessible through Bachmann I would think.

Its the lack of spare parts  and repair-ability in the modern stuff I hate,  back up service that to me trumps exquisite detail every time.

I would settle for recognizable as what it is supposed to be less fiddly bits to break.

But why can't I have the good design with back up service and parts, why is it  super detail poor design and without the service or parts.

regards John

Hi RichL's

I would first off avoid like the plague mixed gauge track it would be an absolute pain to make and wire etc.

Unless of course you just happen to be a well practiced master model maker and technomage.

I would pick a prototype IRISH track plan that meets your space constraints and aesthetic requirements, even if everything else used doesn't match the track plan origin the end result looks more believable.

The idea of a dodgie railway company or light railway, that the occasional and well chosen oddity and second hand dimension can be used does have a certain appeal.

The problem I am having envisioning things is the Penzance picture with its 7' 1/4" std gauge and 4' 8 1/2" narrow gauge

You will need to create scenery that looks Irish making a point of using key features that could not be anywhere else in the world.

The usual rider applies make sure you allow for extension in the plan, even if you are absolutely positively NOT going to extend it the things breed and multiply when your not looking.

Using Street or Road in the station name almost precludes the need for a town or village at the station just a sign that says St Finnian 5 miles  that way covers that.

Will it be a good christian railway powered by steam, or a nasty diesel locomotive powered railway even both, also needs to be factored in right at the start of planning as well as the trains.

It will have a strong influence on surrounding scenery items as well.

On the question of prototypical or freelance model railway I refer you to page one rule one of the model railway rule book

Considering the Madder Valley works as a cohesive whole the world is your oyster.

regards John

Hi Broithe

My guess on it would be a no that's a shunt signal, my reasoning the pattern of lights and head shape is wrong for point indicator.

The light colours and pattern match what I would expect from a ground shunt being two lunar white lights and a colored hard to tell at black out but the bottom left light appears to be red which I would expect on a shunt signal but not on modern point indicator lights.

regards John

Hi all

Since we are on things signals branch did any of the Irish railways use rotating points indicators to indicate normal and reverse setting on points.

Please do not call it a signal it isn't, its an indicator, even though it is a ground signal like device.

It could possibly have red and white, red and yellow or red and green disks, or square targets fitted depending on period and type.

It would usually be seen on the left side from the facing direction though there where the odd exceptions when it was on the right.

regards John

20 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

Yes Pity they did not do the Water Tank and the side dates ala Sheffield Park and have a complete station for chaps.

I actually Drove past the Auld house about 2 years back and was surprised it was actually a real gaf.

Like many other rural Pubs it is now history. Bit dearer than the model though if you want it

https://www.myhome.ie/commercial/brochure/the-auld-house-killamery-callan-kilkenny/4207812

 

No good to me I would turn it into a house and the function room would become a train room could have one hell of a party in the bar or BBQ in the garden.

Needs some one with a head for business and that sadly is not me.

I choose not to drink which Is why I have such a big train set not a good quality in a the land lord of a pub me thinks.

Due to the model I think people will end up confused as to where it is it's going to end up in a lot of wrong locations

regards John

Hi all

The current Hornby doesn't in the important area's manage to rise to the Triang standards.

Hornby make toys and some very creditable models and is now re-tooling some of its product to higher standards.

However what is inside a lot of them is rubbish and the use of traction tyres doesn't say a lot for design either.

The available after sales service from Hornby for spares is a joke.

Any model that needs traction tyres is a fail from the word go, and will fail due to tyre wear and you can't get replacement tyres.

Funny how my so called dark ages models are Not failing and still running well OK some of the detail is a bit yes well by today's standards, but they look like a train when moving.

Yet some of the nice looking modern stuff I have is dead due to a lack of a proper spare parts service.

Doesn't matter how great and fantastic it looks if whats in side is cheap Chinese rubbish and spares are not available, afraid Hornby isn't the great company it used to be they really need to sort the quality of whats inside the body and the service side of things and stop just relying on the Hornby name to see them through.

regards John

On 8/24/2014 at 3:19 AM, Broithe said:

Judge for yourself..

 

 

 

 

Nice looking buildings shame about the missing bits given they are real buildings are missing bits like the Guinness sign and wall advert available as separate detail parts from some where.

I have the Auld House it turned up unexpectedly at a local  Australian hobby shop, I liked it so bought it not knowing later I might end up building an Irish layout.

regards John

4 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

Underground Ernie is a UK children's TV programme, so the platform may be quite "childish" in some respects. The underground trains are all re-imagined Thomas the Tank-style with faces and personalities for a start.

Good job no trains in the offer then just platform and other station bits bits.

That would drive me to the brink of real insanity, not just what's considered normal levels of madness in railway modellers.

Childish bits with the right work and accessories that's beatable as long as it works size wise which it sounds like it might be, think I will take the bait on this one

If its a fail all-way's the junk box for later projects.

While we are on toy station bits are the 60's Triang modernization buildings and Hornby Dublo plastic art-deco station bits any use in an Irish setting I have some from my childhood and would at some point like to be able to use them if I can.

The Triang ones don't look to bad with a paint job and glazing fitted. but its the three foot rule instead of the two foot rule

All the pictures of Irish stations I have seen, seem to have a more rustic stone rural and definitely Irish feel to them.

I would think there should be some modern boring brick or concrete box monstrosities there somewhere.

regards John

Hi all

Last night I got a phone call from a friend in the big smoke offering me at the right price $00.00 some Bachmann Underground Ernie Platform he though It might be enough for a small two or three car railcar platform or something.

My instinct is telling me it might be too modern image for my tastes just for starters.

His thing is "N" scale and about all I have for a description is it's to big for me to use  and you might be able to use it.

Never heard of it or seen any of it here in Australia so does any one know what Bachmann Underground Ernie is.

So the serious questions are, what am I being offered?? and is it going to be of any use  at all for OO scale trains??

Or is it just going to end up in the modeling might be useful for something maybe some day junk box .

Both of us learned a long time ago you don't throw anything toy or model trains away.

regards John

Hi all

Not really modeling but could be an interesting talking point

I know a number of people have modeled Mystic mines ie mines that mine some rare mineral that doesn't exist in the real world and have managed to pull it off very well.

The one that springs to my  mind is purple plinker on the now gone Vulcan vale railway which possibly no one here has heard of being an Australian On30 model  railway before its demise. and I know of a mine in the UK somewhere that is based on Terry Pratchets disk world ideas and tied in with magic and the disk world wizards

I wondered I any one here has done that kind of thing and come up with a workable back story as to why whatever it is was mined and what it was used for justifying train loads of the stuff and final product moving about.

regards John

5 minutes ago, Garfield said:

The branch coach had storage heaters fitted so that a GSV wasn't required. It would have been hooked up to a shore supply overnight.

Would anything have shown outside the coach to indicate storage heating or would all the heating bits have been completely internal and out of sight.

regards John

Hi all

Don't know why I did not think of this before but if the Scottish National Archive has the Harry Potter bridge OOPS I mean Glen Finnan (spelling) viaduct drawings

It is worth contacting the Irish National Archive to see if they can help with Dunsandle station drawings.

Which I have done today.

Thanks for the helpful Posts if you think of anything else please let me know.

The line to the ballast pit is it a branch line or long siding for operational purposes?

It appears to have its own ground frame and signals also to cover quite a distance to the pit.

regards John

18 hours ago, David Holman said:

Wow, fabulous stuff - thanks everyone! Looks like the project is on. As I have given Belmullet a distillery, the idea is that a coach or two of turf from Bangor Ferris bogs will be used to take fuel there. So, either a single coach, with a removable load, or one full, one empty to likewise create the fantasy.

 Am thinking that a plasticard and plastic strip body on an Alphagraphix chassis should do the job.

I would respectfully suggest that given the fighting water production and perhaps possibly medical alcohol production?? the distillery could do both on different production lines.

That perhaps three turf wagons err coaches Oh whatever, would be a better number given peat's lower calorific value to other fuels.

My personal opinion is odd numbers seem to look better, and a distillery is I would have thought likely to want a constant flow of fuel as well as a few port barrels, bottles and ingredients in-wards and fighting water and medical alcohol out wards.

What was done with the production rubbish and ash could that be an outward freight for producing something else?

regards John

30 minutes ago, NIR said:

Colour lights seem to be sited more fluidly than semaphores. With each one being a stop and a distant depending on their colour aspect it's more about succession and route indication than strict positioning at points. Ground colour lights stay in more or less the same positions at points though.

That's a depends on early or later colour lights, or speed signaling, colour lights come two, three and four aspects that I know about.

Re route indicators if the points are not set for the route the indicator doesn't light up there is a strict interlocking between set route and route indicator same for junction indicators.

like I said signals and signaling a very involved topic.

Signal siteing is all about the driver seeing them and operational requirements this also applied to semaphores as well.

regards John

Hi David Holman

Can't help with the coaches that's certainly different and an odd bod that's caught my attention will be interested to know how you do the coach and what you use.

But the load might be able to be created with a block of foam cut to fit a steel nail in the middle to facilitate removal with a magnet and covered with sprue rubble painted to taste.

Sprue rubble basically roughly chopped up plastic kit sprue a trick often used by war-gamer's to get blast rubble for their bombed out buildings it works and can look really good dependent on how finished.

regards John

Hi all

Thanks for the help

That is it and it looks do-able with only some of what I have in the way of loco and coaches. I might even have a couple of points to get me started. 

I should get a goods brake van from some where and a couple of four wheel wagons for a mixed train by the look of it.

What no steam heat for the coach?? and thank goodness I have 2 X 141locomotives one of the pictures has one of those as the locomotive for the train.

So we are now back to where can I get ledge-able diagrams and structure drawings so I can produce something that at least looks Irish even if not a strictly accurate 100% representation of the real station.

I find Model Railways look much more believable if the starting point is a real track plan even if the rest is a bit add hock and borrows bits from else where

Things are are now looking more promising so that's something.

regards John

14 minutes ago, murphaph said:

I can't help you with your question John but best of luck with your Irish layout. I'm sure one of the resident experts here will be along to help a bit later.

There was a Dunsandle (note no trailing s) Station on the Loughrea branch. Maybe that's it?

Woopsie typo that's correct no trailing S that's what happens with drawing that are only just nearly readable

Hi all

I hope I have the right spot for this.

I have a barely legible drawing of Dunsandles station 1897 that was emailed to me quite a while ago.

Can any one tell me is this is in fact an Irish station, as it certainly is not an English one.

But it is a possible for a simple model of a branch through station it has that look to it and just enough operation to keep me happy err I hope.

If it is Irish where is / was it and where can I get a legible copy of the diagram, and some building drawings for modeling Irish stations.

At this point in time where Irish trains, railways and geography are concerned I know nothing and only have plans for a small-ish  roundy roundy layout with hidden storage at the back.

You have to start a new challenge somewhere.

regards John

Hi all

When it comes to signals unless you are building your layout to fill an aircraft hanger full signalling is out of the question.

The very  few signals I have are upper quadrant electric Dublo ones and they still work I have one distant one split distant the rest are home signals.

Probably not very useful for a proposed Irish layout.

I work on the very simple basis of signal in signal out no shunt signals, so signal into station and signal to leave signal into goods yard signal to leave goods yard

station is probably off center so distant on the longest side parallel wired to its home so it mimics like it is supposed to.

All other moves are assumed to be controlled by flag in accordance with the book of rules

I have once used the split distant as a station entry signal with the distant arm as a calling on signal technically incorrect but done to suit local operations and if I had one it would have been noted in the general appendix to the book of rules where these kind of things are usually noted.

Very basic probably not realistic but does at least convey the look, people expect to see signals and for the most part if they see them they are happy.

I would like to see working mechanical shunt signals but to my knowledge they are not made.

Without a lot of messing about and a very large space your not going to get anything like a full signalling system but you will get a better version with color lights but it will still only be a hint of a system.

You could always go staff and ticket in which case a staff cabin is all you need no signals

Or go to station entry signals in which case a double sided signal right in the middle of the station is pretty much all that's needed but that is nearly dawn of railways stuff

All depends on the rail traffic and period.

Like you say signal systems is a topic all of its own and can get very complicated and involved.

Best bet for model railways the KISS principle more so if you plan on them having even the most basic operational control

regards John

On 4/1/2020 at 6:23 PM, jhb171achill said:

For me, it was early-age indoctrination due to family on both sides. Both grandfather and father started life on the GSR, the latter moving to the LMS in England, then NCC, then GNR and ending up with the UTA. (No doubt they stencilled "U T" on him somewhere....!). My mother worked in GNR dining cars and then the GNR's Bundoran hotel...... other relatives emigrated and worked for railway administrations in the Gold Coast, as it was called, South Africa and Argentina! And closer to home, the timetabling department of the Dublin United Tramways Co........

So I hadn't a hope of doing anything else as a hobby!

I never had a hope either

Dad worked for the Tube later  BR then we moved to Aus because had had got a job with the WAGR  one of the uncles also worked on the Tube I later worked for the WAGR and OH Dear! first proper train set at 4yo

Some how I missed the stopped playing trains part of the story when girls and cars became much more interesting I was lucky the girl worked out the train thing was a good thing as she always knew where I was when I was not about.

So the only thing that has changed is the shape and color of the trains over the years.

regards John

Hi jhb171achill

I would not call trains as such a niche interest but then again today they might be, but back when I started most of my childhood friends had a train set of one brand or another and of various sizes.

I like you am also  a "proper" with a guards van freight train person my start set was a diesel version of the pick up goods with a blue diesel shunter it went the way first train sets in the hand of a very young child go shame that the loco was a set only one and a complete set collector price would probably get me two more Irish locomotives at top prices.

I still have a Nellie from back then that I must get re wheeled one day it still works and it makes a good shunter or private industrial having all that weight and is reasonably controllable.

An older style three car rail-car set that could be produced cheaply  and be painted its correct livery and just about get away with being painted in other Irish rail liveries would be ideal if such a thing is possible to get maximum use of the tooling Triang and Hornby's trick.

I would even buy one just to get a visually complete but not too out of place passenger train running.

regards John

Hi all

If my experience at trying Irish trains is anything to go on here are some reasons I think Irish rail may not be of interest to the young.

More young than we think are building or helping to build model railways just not Irish ones.

Perhaps Irish Railways would best be classed as a special interest modelling group.

Lack of reliable supply for the common as muck stuff, limited and short runs of ready to run stock, and no starter sets.

I have a bit of a passenger train and can't complete it I can't get a Cravens snack bar or standard class coach surely a nice complete four coach train is not to much to ask for given its a train set sized train, but obviously it is .

I have one goods wagon and every time I find out about new stuff that interests or might interest me its gone before I even get a look in, and evil bay prices are pure evil and so far over the top it's a very bad joke and the money goes back in wallet and some how ends up back in the domestic budget.

I am on the verge of giving up and I am not a young one this is in-spite of finding a suitable single line station plan to build a freelance impression of Ireland.

Bachmann's  Carlow ( spelling) station weighs too much for Postage ?? or is that just me.

With all this agro it is just so much easier to build a nice USA or UK or even local Aus railway ( you really won't like the prices of the Aus outline trains) which is why Nimby a SAR au station never got anywhere close to starting but I do have a complete goods train that I put together for it.

regards John