226 Abhann na Suire

On 9/9/2025 at 3:17 PM, Westcorkrailway said:

Indeed, but the opposite can be said for the navan line which otherwise looks pristine at the moment. Yes years will eventually out pay to this line if it isint maintained. But it’s not like a south Wexford of a WRC. The track is there and it’s good and it’s unlikely to be used in the future 

 

 

 

On 9/9/2025 at 4:52 PM, jhb171achill said:

You're looking at the following criteria, apart from manpower and funding.

1. Proximity to greater Belfast or Dublin areas, or Cork at an absolute stretch. With Downpatrick in the former category, we're now just looking at Dublin. So counties Dublin, Meath or Wicklow; maybe Kildare.

2. Good road / parking access and proximity to main roads. Access needs also to allow a low loader to bring rolling stock in. No use if it's down some country boreen.

3. Planning permission for staff and public car parking, maintenance sheds / covered accommodation for stock. As Whitehead and Downpatrick will attest, it's a fool's game to leave rolling stock outdoors in all weathers.

4. Sufficient length of line to give the public something like a journey; half a mile is useless, 10 miles is too long to be economically viable in this country, DCDR's 2.5 miles is about right from the point of view of fuel economy when operating; and ease of maintenance. Double it to 5 miles, you double the coal or diesel used, but you won't get away (in this country, anyway) with doubling the fare.

5. Somewhere to go to. A train ride from a small unremarkable rural halt to a buffer stop in a field is useless, as far as sustainability is concerned. It has to GO somewhere. Downpatrick has Inch Abbey. One scheme considered in the past, Trim to Athboy, had a heritage town near a motorway connecting with another in which there is a fmous castle. That sort of thing.

As enthusiasts, we're all good at the "ideas"; the "what-ifs"; and what WE think would be interesting. But "normal" people - who pay the bills (enthusiasts won't) do not think the way we do. Cold hard reality must always take precedence over "it would be nice to preserve XYZ". As a diehard, hardcore, proper nerd-level enthusiast myself, but who spent 25+ years dealing with day-to-day management practicalities of both the RPSI and DCDR, I have seen chapter and verse, plus the full boxed set, on all of this!

On 9/9/2025 at 5:22 PM, Galteemore said:

What ‘normal’ people also want are clean toilets, suitable refreshments, and staff who look as if they appreciate them being there. Enthusiasts may disdain Thomas days, ‘dinosaur days’ etc but these things fill the coffers. The vast majority of punters won’t care if the train consists of shopping trolleys pulled by a pink elephant as long as those other bits are sorted. 

 

All really really good points. I totally understand all of the obstacles, and the fact that we are all looking through this with coal-tinted glasses, but Navan could be a really perfect location for a heritage railway.

The station would be an excellent base to operate a heritage railway out of. Proximity to Dublin is pretty good, and definitely there is enough draw to the town itself aside from a heritage railway, to further entice people to make the trip. It is also in the very centre of the town and would bring loads of business to the local area and to other businesses.

The station site is huge. There is definitely space for low loaders to get in and out (although stock could just be hauled via the mainline connection instead), there is ample space for a simple second platform (the existing one is perfectly wide enough for a primary platform) and there is incredible storage potential, the existing locomotive shed being wide enough for two tracks and likely making a great workshop also, and the goods yard has plenty of extra space for more storage/maintenance (both covered and/or open).

The station throat as well has loads of space to comfortably house the turnouts needed for a multitude of sidings. There is also the absolute beautiful structure of a station building which could be very easily and effectively made into your classic ticket office/cafe/museum building (on the museum note, the Dundalk station mini museum collection, being GNRI based, could be sold to Navan and rehoused there…? Maybe the signal box too - there would be space for it on the platform at Navan and it would make an excellent and accurate heritage attraction in of itself - but maybe that’s a stretch…).

The line could run literally as far as Beauparc - roughly 5 kilometres east - which would also mean that there would be no extra trouble of needing to operate a level crossing, as if trains go no further than Beauparc, the crossing remains defunct. The question of a station at Beauparc depends on the private owners of the old station house, if they objected, the cost of building a station and run-around loop in a new site are likely too expensive, although a loop is not necessarily needed so this could be done at a halt-style location… 

The connection west to where presumably the new Navan IÉ station will go could also be maintained and the odd time for galas and so on, heritage trains could meet DARTs at Navan to collect passengers.

The only other issues I see (aside from the aforementioned obvious cost, workforce, etc) is car parking at Navan. Space could be made at the station bundling for a car park but it wouldn’t be as big as you’d like. There is the larger car park right next door for the Louth and Navan Further Education and Training building and this could potentially be expanded slightly to the east to take the rest of the railways parking demand.

The bottom line is, the success that a lot of the UK heritage lines have had (aside from the previously mentioned much larger market for this kind of thing) has been that the railway has moved in, as soon as British Rail have moved out, meaning they’ve been working with functional, if even well conditioned, track, signalling, infrastructure etc. something that no heritage project on this island has had before and something that the Navan line brings which is not to be overlooked I think.

A mainline connection (either at Navan, or Drogheda, or both, if maintained), is also an incredible opportunity, for mainline charters, extra RPSI storage and/or potential use of Inchicore/Whitehead for larger rolling stock maintenance, removing the need (and cost!) for a complex facility in house for this, as well as the potential as a test track for rolling stock, and signalling even, for IÉ, further adds to the incredible appeal of the location.

Just a few musings, I hadn’t thought of lots of this before I began typing this spiel, but the more I think about it, the more sense it actually makes… Any further thoughts…?

Oisín

Saw pictures of bubble car 2751 being hauled up to Inchicore and have heard rumours of it being destined for Maam Cross… could it be true…??

New station on the four tracked line into Heuston at the Kylemore Road bridge serving Ballyfermot is also in development and plans are due to be revealed in the coming months. Will interchange with future Luas Lucan also, which is a great connection to have 

Leaving Colbert the other day there was 6 cement bogie tankers lying on the side of the line, perpendicular to the tracks, being cut up with angle grinders. (Apologies for the low quality of the pictures)

The wagons are the same as the ones line up in the Colbert ‘sound barrier’ in the sidings to the north of the station approach, and also in that stationary convoy are some Taras, a few of the old unrefurbished CPWs and some 42ft flats, so presumably these are destined for the cutters torch also…? Surely the CPWs might be saved? And does anyone know how the wagons were brought across the running lines and then lifted off the tracks to actually be cut up? 

A 9 carriage ICR (6ICR + 3ICR) tore past me through Kildare the other day, looked to be on an ECS to Heuston. Longest I’ve seen in person 

It’s always a mystery to me why when it was being built in the 90s, no one had the foresight to double the Dargan Bridge, it seems like an awful waste of resources. Does anyone know is the passing loop above Corporation Street actatlly used in daily service? Or does the block just run between the junction with the Bangor Line and York Street station? Seems like an obvious capacity hinderance which should be thought about being fixed…

Excellent and unbelievably comprehensive list though @Darrman, I really could not agree more! IÉ definitely need to get a move on with Limerick-Limerick Jnct, Galway-Athenry, Athlone-Portarlington, and Bray Head Tunnel 4-Greystones Station (the only solution here is to double the whole 2km section between the tunnel and the station, it would make a hell of a difference 

https://irishcycle.com/2024/11/13/images-an-in-depth-look-at-first-new-dart-train/
 

Unreal article here on IrishCycles about the first full new DART+ set that was unveiled in Inchicore today, a load of really good pics. I’m particularly impressed by the new PIS, wayyyy more informative than the current waste of money they’ve added to the 8600’s that only show the time and destination; these ones show next station, relative distance into the journey, which side the doors will open on, and even where in the train is least busy!! They will be nothing short of groundbreaking!

23 hours ago, airfixfan said:

Soccer special tomorrow for FAI Cup final. 09.20 ex Derry via Lanyon for crew change for Dublin. 6 car CAF set returns after the match.

Very interesting… Was it operated by an NIR unit? And was it advertised as a Derry-Dublin service?? The first one in a very long time I should think!!

On 28/10/2024 at 10:20 PM, jhb171achill said:

Is there an easy or obvious way of telling which services are which; DDs, ICRs, or NIR railcars? Is that what the asterisks are? 

Here’s the full list :))

On 12/10/2024 at 3:25 PM, jhb171achill said:

Excellent....

It is my understanding that currently the entire service is worked by one driver, and that's two return trips a day. If this is correct - and even if it isn't, it could be - that suggests that with only one more driver, four traina  day would be feasible.

But why stop at Limerick - why not include the Galway service? Surely, there is increased potential for a service like this - especially with students in mind if that is the case - if it were to operate Waterford - Limerick - Galway?

Four operations a day each way over that while route, plus several others as at present Limerick - Galway, should surely be achieveable and also desirable. I feel that this would provide a major boost over this whole route, at comparatively very little outlay other than the restoration of a crossing point at Cahir. And put ICRs on it, not those god-awful tin cans with pixie seats and yellow poles that they do use.

Hopefully the advent of the Dart+ and new Enterprise trains might somehow result, as a by-product, in a few spare ICRs.

I do like the idea of Galway-Limerick-Waterford services however I feel that morning services should not be linked this way necessarily. Maybe a Galway-Waterford and vice versa morning route for a pre-9am arrival if feasible (although unfortunately I can’t see that it would be…) but in addition to individual Limerick-Galway and Waterford-Limerick (and vice versa respectively) pre-9am arrival services.

Having the morning Waterford-Limerick services extend to a pre-9am Galway arrival allows passengers from Waterford to access Galway (a small number I’d imagine) and Limerick-Galway passengers too but would leave Waterford passengers for Limerick stranded in Limerick at 7am… and the same with Galway-Limerick passengers on a Galway-Waterford service…

Maybe an idea would be simultaneous Waterford to Limerick and Limerick to Galway trains in the morning with pre-9am arrivals, (and the same in reverse for the evening rush) but then have the middle of the day trains, through run between Waterford and Galway…?

I do agree wholeheartedly though about the need for throughout-the-day services, it is something which is not too common on the 3 branches (there is none on the Waterford Limerick line and barely any on the Nenagh branch) and something which is very needed. The draft timetable I included at the start of this thread was specifically for pre-9am arrivals at both ends but obviously throughout-the-day services are needed, otherwise communities are not linked and people outside of 9-5 workers are completely uncatered for.

As a Waterford native with a beloved grandmother of whom I see far too little, living in Galway, I love the idea of direct Waterford and Galway services but I feel that the amount of day commuters between the two cities would be way too low to warrant a specific pre-9am arrival service to both. However I believe that a Waterford-Galway and a Galway-Waterford service should operate on Sundays and Friday evenings for getting college students between the 3 very large universities on the line and home. This would be a very useful opportunity for such a service I think

On a train out of Heuston just now and spotted the unmistakable shape of one of the new DART+ carriages being loaded onto the tracks in Inchicore depot!! Exciting times ahead! Does anyone know are they being currently placed on accommodation bogies for the time being, or have their special articulated bogies arrived yet? 

I think the max operating speed of the 99s is only 120kmh so I think it’s safe to see that once the 201s and 071s have gracefully bowed out, Irish Rail see that being the end to loco hauled services on the island. EMU/BMU’s seem like the likely future for the Belfast and Cork services especially if 200kmh speeds are the plan! A sad end but really an inevitable move with the times. Any word on the new Enterprise tender by the way? Last I heard, they’d narrowed it down to 2 bidders…!

Credit where credit’s due for the dynamic passing loop though, really will help to slicken service passings at the station. Does anyone know what side the double track will be extending? My grandfather was the chief civil engineer in charge of the N67 Dual Carriageway bridge over the railway east of the current station and demanded that the bridge be built with space for a second track in the future, so I’m just curious if his efforts will be fruitful in this project!! Station plans look stunning, can’t wait to see this finally happen. 

Not sure if a thread already exists for this line (if so I’m really sorry Mods and could you please move this post to that thread) but I thought no harm in having one!

I’m just thinking out loud about what can be done to increase line capacity and usage. Ideally services would be expanded to Limerick Colbert rather than just the junction and a service would leave both Waterford and Limerick with a pre-09:00 arrival at each end and a similar post-17:30 departure in the evening (this, in my opinion, should be the standard for all lines in Ireland, branch and intercity included…) However how achievable is this?

I did a mock timetable and it seems that with the addition of a passing loop and second platform at Cahir (or even just a loop outside of Cahir), the following can be achieved:

A train would leave both Waterford and Limerick Colbert respectively at around 06:00 and the two trains can pass each other in Cahir. The trains would provide a connection at Limerick Junction for:

• Passengers from Waterford for Cork would join 07:00 Dublin to Cork (which calls at Limerick Jnct at 08:32)
• Passengers from Tipperary, Clonmel (etc) for Dublin would join the 07:00 Cork to Dublin (which calls at Limerick Junction at 08:01).  
• Passengers from Limerick for Cork would join the 06:00 Dublin to Cork (which calls at Limerick Junction at 07:26) or would simply get the 06:55 Limerick - Limerick Jnct for a better connection time. 
• Passengers from Cork for Limerick would join from the 07:00 Cork to Dublin (which calls at Limerick Junction at 08:01).

These trains will arrive into the two cities respectively at around 8:30 each morning, before the beginning of the working day.

In the evening, the story is much the same with trains leaving both cities at around 18:00 and once again passing one another at Cahir. Each train would provide connections in Limerick Jnct:

• Passengers from Cork for Waterford would join the Waterford train from the 17:25 Cork to Dublin (which calls at Limerick Junction at 18:23)
• Passengers from Dublin for Tipperary, Clonmel (etc) would join the Waterford train from the 17:00 Dublin to Cork (which calls at Limerick Junction at 18:27).  
• Passengers from Cork for Limerick would join the Limerick train from the 18:25 Cork to Dublin (which calls at Limerick Junction at 19:26)
• Passengers from Limerick to Cork would join the 17:00 Dublin to Cork (which calls at Limerick Junction at 18:27). 

Both services would then reach Limerick and Waterford at around 20:20 or so each evening

Let me know if anyone has any thoughts on this, if it seems feasible, etc. Opinions and criticism (constructive please…!) would also be much appreciated. 

Thanks all,

 Oisín  :))

On 9/9/2024 at 7:16 PM, DERAILED said:

Are they going to rebuild the roof - demolishing it before it fell down is one thing - rebuilding it quite another!

According to the video sent by @Der Rechtsanwalt that’s what the clearance work on the old collapsed roof was for…!

On 3/9/2024 at 6:56 PM, Der Rechtsanwalt said:

 

Great video! Didn’t know they were bothering to rebuild the roof… Hardly as a preemptive station project…? Overnight loco storage maybe? Will there be a run around facility built at Foynes from the outset or are they waiting until they can bring the railhead to the dock itselfv

4 hours ago, Anders112 said:

Sure it would be rude not to Include the 111s in this forum , here is 113 out of the GM EMD paint shop yet to receive its yellow/orange warning panel and its buffers 

If I’m correct was 113 delivered with a yellow warning panel while 111 and 112 were delivered years earlier with an orange warning panel ?

The extra 5’3 rail in the compound to accommodate the Irish gauge locos is very interesting here…! You’d wonder is it still present!!

Anyone know what the scéal is about Kishogue opening on Monday…? Is there and official ceremony and first train…? (Obviously the first train will be the first train at 5 in the morning, but is there a ceremonial ‘first train’ happening…? Thinking of heading up and wondering if there’s something happening at the station over the course of the day

Still any word yet on what traffic will go over the line…? Or is it moreso being built in line with TEN-T recommendations and the Foynes port masterplan with no immediate use pencilled in but with big use planned in the future with the port’s explanation? 

I actually think (again only from looking at Google Earth) that Strabane will be the easiest to reconnect, due to it being such a dense and contained town.

A new alignment approaching from the south could travel north-northwest after Sion Mills before bending due north-northeast to follow the River Finn and have a train station after the Mourne river crossing slightly to the east of the service station on the Lifford Road. This would be very on the very edge of the town of Strabane while also being very close to Lifford (750 metres to both town centres from the proposed station site).

The line could subsequently follow the A5 all the way to Waterside station with minimal interruption to any existing property save for a small housing estate on the outside of Derry and of course the old quay buildings… Could this work…?

I am very much of the opinion that a largely new alignment will be required for all of the reasons mentioned above like electrification, need for double track, and suitability for new trains, plus of course meaning a more direct and faster route than the car.

Finally would there be any benefit to a triangle junction at Portadown to allow express services form Dublin…? 

You’d wonder would somewhere beyond Hazelhatch be viable…? Between there and Naas? Or even just north of Rush and Lusk? Although that latter location may face the same flooding risks of the Maynooth depot… 

21 hours ago, Darrman said:

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/dublin/dublin-news/plans-to-extend-dart-network-to-kildare-and-meath-get-green-light/a805532602.html

Dart+ West has been mostly approved. Line electrification and level crossing closures will go ahead, but the depot west of Maynooth will not due to "flood risk". So we might end up with a railway, but nowhere to store the trains. It's worth asking at this point: how much space does Fairview have? Plenty of Dart+ trains have been bought and they need somewhere to be stored.

When you say the depot will not happen, does that mean at all…??? Are they looking into relocating it…? Surely the depot is a must for the whole project…

On 28/7/2024 at 1:23 PM, Niles said:

(Also a little quirk for modellers in this photo, it'll drive your OCD mad).

 

Been looking at it for the last 10 minutes, put us out of our misery @Niles!!

The recent Cork line level crossing project (the replacement of a mere 7 or so level crossings between Charleville and Mallow) took over 3 years to make its way through ABP and that was a simple infrastructure project compared to DART+ so I can only hope they’ve gotten their act together… 

On 6/7/2024 at 1:45 PM, spudfan said:

Wonder when it will appear in Murphy Models form?

I presume they are just vinyls/stickers applied? Wonder if we will see a 201 running on HVO painted up like these?

Would love a full body livery like this on the 201 or even a Hydrogen inspired full body livery on whichever 071 gets the go-ahead for that project (is that still happening…?)