Eiretrains

Noel have NIR locos ever hauled cross boarder freight I don't ever remember seeing any.

In the mid-late 1990s 112 (and possibly the others) hauled freight, usually liner trains of containers and fertiliser between Dundalk and Belfast, but I do not think they worked all the way from Dublin, just took over/or off the trains at Dundalk.

The difference between the two is that one, No.088 I assume, will be modeled in the as delivered Supertrain livery of 1976, with the cream coloured broken wheel logo and tablet snatchers.

Where as No.086 represents Supertrain era of the 1980s, with the orange broken wheel logo and SA letting, applied when the air braked Mk3 stock appeared in 1986. Presumably the final version won't have snatchers as shown at the model fairs, as these would have been mostly removed by 1980s.

Eiretrains-thanks for that extra info with the carriage number.

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No problem, PM sent

I've a couple of close photographs taken of 836 during my forays into Downpatrick. Fascinating to read it was the same type of carriage as used on the old fashioned weed sprayer. That particular carriage carried the departmental number 530A if that's of any use, and once had one of those side name boards above the windows (pre-78 at least), though the lettering was missing - the original title long since forgotten!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2247638/Ghost-trains-How-locomotives-early-20th-Century-look-running-old-routes.html

Just bear in mind some of the locations aren't exactly the same, one clearly and oddly reversed in photoshop!

I don't know about Rosslare Europort, but a 201 operated a cement from Waterford to Dublin via South Wexford and Rosslare Strand.

There are some excellent articles by Dan Renehan published in the IRRS journals of the past. He wrote one each for the A/C Classes, Sulzers, the GMs, as well as the E Class, recounting chronologically the history and operations of class;

E Class Diesels of CIE, IRRS Vo.14, No.84, Feb '81.

Sulzer Locomotives of CIE, IRRS Vo.14, No.86, Oct '81.

Crossley Diesels of CIE (1), IRRS Vo.15, No.90, Feb '83.

Crossley Diesels of CIE (2), IRRS Vo.15, No.91, June '83.

La Grange Locomotives, IRRS Vo.17, No.112, June '90.

This is just an extract from the Sulzers, one such interesting movement being recorded: 'On 25 August 1962 B112 took over the hauling of the remaining two Queens, Nos. 800 and 801, from the ailing A48 which had hauled them from Thurles; but the load proved too much and B112 failed at Portarlington, clear case of “dead” steam triumphing over “live” Diesel!'

Talking of the Sulzer operations, apparently 103 was the only loco to cross the border, reaching Portadown with the 1976 weed sprayer, it also visited Kingscourt branch at same time. As the JB says, only the ballast/spray operations took them off their usual territory.

A wealth of information to digest, perhaps could be made a sticky on the forum.

I have few additions might be of interest based on observations; Regarding the grey/yellow 121 locomotives, B127 and B123 had the red painted buffer beams, I know one 121 was repainted in the yellow/grey as reported in the IRN, think it might have been B123? - I'm not sure.

For some reason, some of the re-engined A Classes in their black & tan livery, still had the high-tan sides unlike most which were altered to the low-tan, the preserved A39r, and A51r being such examples, there may have been others.

The Crossley engined C Class locomotives, C203 (yellow buffer beam), C209 and C211 were in all over black with the yellow rectangle fronts. Some of the Crossley Cs had the black & tan with high-bands during the mid 1960s, examples C206, C209 and C211, they later got the all-over black treatment.

The first re-engined C Classes, renumbered B233 and B234, still had the all-over black livery when re-entering service, B234 received the tan treatment later, while by 1969 B233 was still in all-over black but with a yellow rectangle. Interestingly, when 233 received the 'Supertrain' livery, it was still without its GM headlight on the front, which looked sort of odd! Not sure if 234 looked the same at that time. Re-engined C Classes did operate in the black/tan livery with the converted AEC pushpull stock, but all receiving the 'Supertrain' treatment by end of the 1970s.

The Birmingham Sulzers may have got the two green liveries, the lighter without the white band, the darker with it. B111 and B112 were the Sulzers to have the high-tan sides, unlike the rest the class with the low-tan.

Some of the D Class received the black/tan treatment in the early 1960s, such as D302 and D305. D303 at some point may have received a later shade of green, as observed in 1956, in Irish Railways in Colour (1). Interestingly, one of the Ds may have remained in the dark green and original number into 1960s, as observed (not by myself I might add!) at Inchicore in 1964.

All of this of course would be easier to explain with photos!

Brilliant Eamonn, absolutely Brilliant. Who knows one day all of us on this site might one day get together and restore a few miles of one of these lost lines. Where there is a will there is a way and the people on this site have the will, knowledge and expertise to tackle such a project. Well done great pics.

A section of it is already 'restored' albeit in 3ft gauge as the Waterford & Suir Valley Railway, while at the other end of the line at Ballinacourty, a section is now an attractive walkway. Btw, I believe the 'man in the brown coat' captured as the train arrives into the loop at Ballinacourty is none other than the photographer Joe St Leger.

As Eamonn says, the old photos are by David Parks, and closer ones are of his own which he kindly sent for the Eiretrains website. I was travelling to West Cork to photograph the CBSCR system so I didn't have time to explore viaduct, but I do have a closer view of the whole structure that's not displayed on the website, if it's of any use I could send this photo, just give an email address to send to.

Brilliant stuff, Ciaran - I must post a thing about the variations on "A" class liveries in the '60's. There were actually numerous variations including at least two absolute one-offs.

The 1960s really was a kaleidoscope of liveries and variations on locomotives. I've just remembered something about the overall black livery which you probably know already, but one for the modellers, some locomotives in the mid 1960s, such as A49 and A55, sported orange painted buffer beams, again it was something tried out but later dropped!

PART 2

Modellers dealing with this period might like to have a dirty C class loco appearing from round a corner in their terminus with a motley collection of 4 wheeled and bogie flats and open wagons loaded with old sleepers and rusty rails, lumps of vegetation possibly stuck to the sides... Power for lifting trains could be a rail tractor, a cut-down railcar, a steam engine or a diesel engine, the latter inevitably a "C". The West Cork was lifted partly by "C"s and partly by one of the Bandon tanks.

This is something that always interests me. The West Cork had effectively been closed by April 1961, but due to the extensive nature of the system with its long main line and branches, it was still not entirely lifted until 1965, some three years after the last regular trains had operated.

Those who have purchased Part 2 of the West Cork Railway Memories DVD will have enjoyed the clip (filmed by Brian Baker, and later by Tony Price) featuring C212 in green livery on a lifting train making its way along the CBSCR main line, which was by then grass covered with a shrub or two between the rails!

Talking of liveries, most photos depicting the C Classes on the CBSCR system are either silver or green, but the black & tan did in fact manage to reach the West Cork lines, albeit briefly on these lifting trains, as shown in this interesting photo of black & tan liveried C210 on a lifting train at a derelict looking Waterfall station (first station out of Albert Quay). C206 was another loco black & tan loco to be seen working such a train on the CBSCR.

Regarding the black & tan livery, it appeared on trial a little bit earlier, in 1961. A Class locomotive A6 being the first to be treated, appearing in the new livery in October of that year. Its 'A6' numerals were thicker than what was to be later adopted as standard in 1962, but A6 retained this oddity for some years until repainted, like many other A Class locomotives, in all over black by late 1960s, effectively moving from one inspiring livery to a rather drab one!

I'm hoping some day someone might digitise the old Irish Railfans News so it can be read and examined easier, they are kind of hard to pick up. The news was originally largely gathered together by 'junior' members of the IRRS from the 1950s to the early 1970s, and as such they are somewhat more detailed than the contemporary IRRS journals of the time, with often obscure items recorded. There were also several news reports devoted to the Ballinacourty/Bennettsbridge/Tivolli developments, the traffic of which ironically only lasted a mere ten years.

Edit, a link on IRN has some more old bulletins, though bit hard on the eyes to read(!).

Check out Markle's Northern Ireland Railways Archives Vo.1 & 2 and NIR Then & Now DVDs which show the maroon Hunslets 'top & tailing', as well as operating single. Btw I likewise like the maroon livery, and if an 80 Class ended up at Downpatrick I'd like to see it in that livery.

The timber traffic ceased in 2001, with services terminating from a range of locations including Galway, Ennis, Millstreet and Killarney and others. Of course the timber did come back again but only using the bogey wagons.

The wagons in use on the trains look like ballast wagons, Is this correct? I'm guessing the wagons would discharge through the bottom as per normal?

Where was the gypsum taken? Was it just Platin?

Were there other gypsum freight flows elsewhere? Did they use the same type of wagon as at Kingscourt?

Yes they were largely the same as the ballast wagons, but had the words 'gypsum only' painted on the hopper sides so to prevent them getting mixed up with the ballast rakes.

The gypsum from Kingscourt operated to Platin most times, but sometimes (maybe once a week?) it would operate through to the Castlemungret cement works in Limerick, as it did on the last run in 2001. Until the mid 1970s a train would also serve the Boyne Rd factory in Drogheda.

Wagons on the gypsum trains tended to vary over the years, for example, old standard open wagons as well as bullied designed versions were used, going back even further they would have used hoppers of MGWR/(GNR?) origin.

Found this among my collection, not sure where I got it from.

As the watermark suggests, from JandJ Cottrell's Rail Photos zenfolio photo-site.

Yes very nice video, very appropriate train for the Hunslet. Yes I think that sea-sick motion is caused by Youtube's anti-shake corrective, even one of my fairly steady videos youtube still made a mess of it, so I don't use it at all.

any history on this little gem?

Here on the DCDR, great to see a CSET locomotive back in action, they were unlikely survivors.

A late reminder for everyone, but the IRRS Annual Slide Show is on this evening.

Usual location and time at the IRRS Headquarters beside Heuston Station, shows starts @ 19:30 sharp.

So if you're the area and doing nothing else you should attend, as it's generally a good show and I'm aware there's a good lineup of juicy material tonight, all Irish as well of course.

That's right regarding the chap on the front, acting as a pilotman because of the limited visibility. The 121s could also run light engine nose-first between Connolly-Inchicore, and while performing pilot work in the North Wall yards.

The O'Dea Collection in the National Library contains two photos of the 121s operating nose-first, on trial at Cherryville and on the Sligo line near Nesbitt Jct, the image references are ODEA 23/25 and ODEA 23/63 respectively.

http:// http://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/IRISH-RAILWAYS/CORAS-IOMPAIR-EIREANN-STEAM/18279129_TbnP49#!i=1856710086&k=FWNJ8dc&lb=1&s=A

Upper right hand corner. A concrete coaling stage? In ireland?

That's right, was there until the mid 1960s. There were also ones on the NCC, at York Road, and a much smaller one at back of Coleraine station.

excelent pics of barrack st from eiretrains....fairplay to the man!

Just to clarify, I wasn't the one who took all the juicy photos of the trains to Barrack St, I, unfortunately, was too young for any of that.

It was 1972 when the Supertrain livery appeared, along with the introduction of the Mk2 AC coaching stock.