Scots Mac

Hi Nelson thanks for that, just took these pics of one of the 800s (not finished yet !) if you compare it to prototype pics you'll see that the height of the tender is just about right in comparison to the loco cab and to my eyes says "CIE 800":) and not "LMS Scot or patriot":confused:. The tender base is actually a hornby motorised tender unit but I don't know whether I'll retain this or replace it with a non motorised base... the loco is powered too,I still need to see if they run well in tandem ,if so I'll probably twin motor all three of my 800s. If they don't I'll use non-powered tender bases and just leave them loco powered. Cheers Davy

Hi Guys, OK heres how I tackled the 800 tenders. The three locos I have converted to represent 800 B1a 4-6-0s were Rebuilt Patriots by Mainline. However the tenders that come with them just aren't right for the 800 class. I chose tender tops from the Hornby range. In this case from Hornby patriots. I bought them from ebay for £4 each. As I explained in my previous post I haven't made up my mind yet what tender base to use for these yet. The Hornby patriots were tender driven locos so these tender tops clip fit onto various Hornby powered tender bases and with modification will also fit onto mainline, etc.,etc., bases too. Cheers DAVY:-bd

Great stuff Mike what a beautifull bit of work..... 10 out of 10 !!

hi guys as for the queen tenders I never used the original tendr tops at all I bought Hornby patriot tender tops and chopped and modified them.Ive seen Royal Scot conversions to the Irish 800s but to my eyes their unaltered original tenders defeat the visual illusion of an 800 and still look too British. These patriot tops also fit onto hornby motorised tender bases so there is the possibility in the case of converting Mainline rebuilt patriots or Scots which are loco driven to have both a powered loco and powered tender combination which would make them very powerfull units indeed. I havent tried such a combination as yet though so it remains to be seen if the mainline engines and hornby tender drives gearing run OK in tandem. At present I still haven't finalised my choice of tender base to use for the queens. If the twin poweredMainline/Hornby combination works I may just go down that road.I will do the experiment and report back.It certainly would make locomotives that would handle pretty much any train slung behind them. As for the J15 I've already bought two 2nd hand GWR Deans Goods locos for the job one by mainline the other by hornby (they are the exact same model) The Deans goods to my eyes almost look like J15s out the box but the tenders don't look right at all plus these engines are tender driven and ar way too slim and long.I notice that some J15s had tenders that were very much like the LNER B12 tenders so at present my plan is to try to get a motorised tender unit into a B12 tender for my as yet unstarted J15 projects. The two deans goods locos cost me less than £60 for the two. I'll let you know how I get on with these. As for Inchicore chimneys the nearest I see is LNER/B1/B12 I bought some old Cavendish brass chimneys off ebay yesterday ,so we'll see whats what. Two of the 800 class Macha and Teilte certainly sported single chimneys as photographic evidence shows in fact I dont think I've seen Teilte with a double chimney.Maeve and Macha definately had twin chimneys but Macha seems to have finished her days with the single chimney.My version of Teilte has a single chimney at present but its a stanier and its a wee bit high and makes then loco look a wee bit like a jubilee .I think an LMS princess chimney might be nearer By the way Mike I saw your 850 tank.....superb job you did on that. I fancy doin one too but in CIE lined green. There is a monochrome rear3/4picture of it in the GSR book clearly showing it in full lining like the 800 class.I really fancy that.Its a very smart engine. cheery the noo !! Davy

Hi Richie, well I'm havin a ball doin the Irish steam era. I'm lovin researching it and trying to find out facts about colourschemes etc. There are plenty close British models to work from as a base and with ebay it needn't cost an arm and a leg to buy second hand. So why not have a go?. between railtec, 247 developments,and Fox transfers etc., all the irish steam era decals/nameplates etc., are/will soon be available so why no ? Slainte !! Davy:)

Hi Guys, I have already received excellent nameplates and cabside number plates for the 800 class 4-6-0 locos Maeve and Macha from Gary at 247 developments. He is now working on the third engine's plates "Tailte" . The plates are beautifully produced in correct Irish Gaelic script. all three sets will be available in the new year.

Hi Guys, not got much done the last couple of days, waiting for dome and chimney castings to come thru from suppliers,however I did get a set of CIE tech drawings thru the post ,kindly sent to me by Alan O'Rourke for the 400 class including 402 which was a bit different from the rest of the class.I was pleasantly surprised how close I was with the "Sir Dinidan" conversion.Not perfect but far closer than I'd have thought. I re-painted her in grey on the advice of "JBH achill" so thanks for the advise there, and even though she has no chimney, steam dome or any other fittings or decals yet I have to say I really like the plain all over grey. The tender is from the Hornby LNER B12. A bit short for the 400 class but it is fairly similar, I'm hoping to get a better tender match and am currently investigating all hornby and bachmann etc.,etc., tenders to see what I can come up with. Cheers DAVY

Hi Kirly, thing is ,in most cases theres no tampering with the running mechanisms so no reason why they shouldn't run. This model though is a wee bit of an exception because I have to add a trailing wheel which if not done right could cause problems going thru points etc., .On the other hand I could do what Hornby has done with some of their models ,ie remove the flanges on the trailing wheel and have it fixed rigid.That way its basically a cosmetic dummy. Re-building stuff doesn't scare me though. Plus the fact,I'm no paying hundreds of pounds for these models. Most are all 2nd hand off ebay. I actually dropped this model half-way thru the rebuild and smashed the front end clean off,but the great thing is glue and body filler can just about fix anything. In this case it did !! ha ha DAVY

Another project I'm working on is a 650 tank. I happened to notice that the Hornby LBSCR looked a bit like the GSR/CIE 650 class. Chimney and steam dome looked about the right shape and proportions,so after thinking a lot about the feasability of the conversion first, I finally bought one of the hornby engines off ebay. Anyway I'll let the pictures do the talking. I'm not particularly happy with the cab roof shape,but I can always pack it out again and re-work it and I still have a fair bit of work to do including fitting the trailing wheel. I picked the black colour scheme because the only colour picture I could find was of 673 in 1961 in black.These engines did work out of Dublin and were green but 673 as far as I can make out was the last one in service and obviously got a late steam-era black paintjob so I chose to model her. I have too many construction pictures of this model to post here so I'll just post a few to give you the gist of it.Last picture is the state of play at the moment.Still needs a fair bit of work yet though. .

Hi George, I'm afraid I'm not sympathetic at all . I'm sure engines tremble when I take them out the box and they see the knifes,and razor saws etc.,etc.,...and no mercy is shown. makes no difference to me, ugly southern ducklings to beautifull Irish swans ...ha ha . Same goes for LNER ,LMS or whatever. DAVY

Hi Guys, apart from my CIE steam projects I've also been looking for wagons for my Irish diesels to haul. As I'm mainly a loco fanatic I am not so interested in what they pull but I like things to look fairly realistic. I noticed the irish ammonia tanker trains of the recent past. I looked for a similar model and came up with the Lima bogie gas and petrol tankers. Now they aren't exactly the same as the irish tanks but I felt with a half decent paint job they'd look alright. They are continental wagons and had the railed platforms at the ends which I pulled off. I also pulled off the undercarriage detail and filled in beneath the tanks with fine plasticard. Gave them a paint job and applied orange adhesive tape along the middle. Not perfect but OK to my "selective" eyes for purpose. Next on the agenda for this project is a barrier wagon for either end to make the typical ammonia train.

Hi Guys, David (Holman) ,I'd like to have bought the studio models brass 800 class 4-6-0 kit etc.,etc., to support the home Irish market but I am not a metal worker at all so I stick to the mediums I am familiar with which is basically plastic,balsa wood, glue and body fillers,. I'm afraid I don't have the patience for finescale , though I greatly admire the guys who do and produce great models and layouts. Heirflick, I;m actually surprised that more Irish guys haven't got into the CIE steam era. Its similar to the British stuff but just that bit different and thats what I like about it. And the same applies to the modern diesel scene too. I have also been doing some modern-ish wagons to go with my Murphys diesels . And have been working away at an approximation of the Irish weedkiller trains. Anyway, I'll get round to that too eventually. I hack away at one project while the paint's drying or the glue's setting on another. I eventually get there though !! All good fun. Cheers DAVY

Hi Guys, I've got tons of stuff on the boil,been working away at various engines for weeks now , I'll get round to posting everything in time. "UP6936" have a look here, ,there were the 400s and 500 4-6-0s. I;ve already started chopping a replica railways LNER B12 which will I hope turn out a decent representation of 502 ,which co-incidentally was classed B12 on the irish railways. Anyway guys ...enjoy... Davy

Hi Guys, heres one I'm working on at the moment with prototype picture and step by step progress pics. Having taken a great interest in the steam locos of the CIE I've been scouring thru online galleries and books and looking for engines similar to UK types readily available from proprietory manufacturers. I discovered engine 402.She was the only engine of the B2 type re-built with a flush running plate,all the rest of the class had split level running plates/walkways . I happened to notice that the old Hornby King Arthur class "Sir Dinidan" had a very similar style cab and had a similar longish front end. So I'd reckoned I'd buy a Sir Dinidan off ebay and have a go. I stripped all the detail off apart from the chimney then decided that it too wasn't right for the Irish engine so it got buffed off too. I kept comparing pictures then realised that the Sir Dinidan smokebox sat back from the front curve of the running plate whereas 402's smokebox hung over the lip so I razor sawed off the front end of the smokebox and and glued in two balsa wood extenders into the boiler barrel.Fortunately the inside of the hornby barrel moulding isn't round but rectangular so it was easy enough to extend the firebox with straight edged balsa. I never measured anything, 99% of the time I work by the eye. I only care that the models I do "look" about right when finished and capture the essence of the prototype, so if you're a rivit counter....look away now ha ha !!. Anyway I glued the smokebox front back on its new esimated position then filled in the space with body filler. I use "Chemical Metal" body filler by the Plastic Padding co. Great stuff. Sets very fast and is great for buffing and rubbing down and is very strong. So that was the boiler extended.Next on the agenda was a belpaire firebox which I made out of plastic card and buffed down to look approximately right. Strictly speaking it should tuck in tighter at the bottom but I decided it was near enough to satisfy me so that was that. I resurfaced the running plates with fine paper thin plasticard and wrapped the smoke box area with it too so that it stands out from the rest of the boiler barrel a bit as this is a chareceristic I noticed in the B2. I re-covered the cab roof with slightly thicker plastic to get the relationship between the belpaire firebox and the cab roof looking about right and buffed a bit off the back of the over-all roof lenth.Anyway guys the pictures attached will save many words. As it stands the loco requires a new chimney and steam dome and generally detailed up and painted. I'm not sure what tender it will get as yet. The original Sir Dinidan tender doesn't look like the B2's tender,but I'll see what Hornby or some of the other makes have out there and see if theres something close. Oh ...the wheel splashers ,I forgot about them. I made them out of plasticard layered then buffed to shape and glued on. They are cosmetic only as the hornby driving wheels don't actually come up that high but ...who cares ...like I say it is all about capturing the feel of the 402. I "think" its starting to get there. I'll keep you posted as things progress. Cheers DAVY

Hi guys, the picture I showed of the original BR version is a more modern model as is yours by the looks of it heirflick. the model I actually used was an old version with moulded handrails which I've chosen to leave in place. What I noticed needs changed and did to my model was to shave down the sandboxes on the front wheel splasher.On the Irish E1/ 279 loco they are flush with the top of the wheel splasher and I also removed the brass safety valves from the dome and the other pipework on the top of the boiler. The cab opening needs altered and I don't think wthout major surgery this can be fixed to perfection but can be made more like the original. "Burn the box" you are right about the door. Like I say the whole cab opening needs re-worked which will get done shortly .Incidentally guys according to the infromation I have 279 was a one off.Originally she was an 0-4-2 and was the only one of her ancient class to be modernised and rebuilt as an 0-4-4. She lasted into the 50s. The E2 class looks similar too but I think the Hornby model lends itself more to the E1. Cheers DAVY

Hi Guys, new to the forum. I've been doin a lot of converting of UK steam types to represent Irish steam lately. One of the easiest I've found to do is the Hornby Southern M7 0-4-4T to GSR/CIE E1 the solitary engine 279. I still have some work to do to this engine ,ie alter the cab opening ,and give it spectacle windows and safety valves and whistle etc., but already with some slight mods and a coat of paint and numerals she looks the part at a glance.Will not be 100% accurate of course but close enough ?. The paint is a dark Humbrol grey and the numerals are Fox transfers (English Southern) which look quite close to the Irish numerals. Cheers DAVY

Hi jhb, thanks for the interest and help again, it would be interesting to know if B2a 402 was black or grey.There is another undated picture of her on page 238 of the Clements and McMahon book taken from mid-tender and from behind the cab looking forward.Again either filthy black or grey.My logic for thinking she might be black in 1961 is that it would seem to have been CIE policy to give anything that had "late in the steam game" overhauls a coat of black. 402 apparently retired in '61 so it would be logical to think that she'd have been a locomotive that got overhauled late in the day and possibly outshopped in black. In Tom Ferris' book she also appears to be sporting her number on her smokebox face. 402 was the only B2 to have her running plate walkway on one level from cab to cylinders which made her a unique engine. Locos 305 (B12) 4-4-0 and 502 (B1) 4-6-0 have photographs raising the same livery questions.Both listed as having been given the green treatment. This picture of 305 in 1955 again poses the question green or grey ? She is listed as having been a loco that received the green treatment . Close inspection of ths picture could suggest the faintest trace of lining yet there seems to be no obvious break between the smokebox (which am I correct would have been black on a green loco ??) and the rest of the bodywork . Incidentally,for modelling purposes the nearest off-the-shelf tender I've found to this prototype is the tender from the Hornby LNER B12. I've used a Hornby Southern L1 with the LNER B12 tender for this combination. Not 100% accurate but close enough to capture the essence of this particular Irish B12. Hi jhb, thanks for the interest and help again, it would be interesting to know if B2a 402 was black or grey.There is another undated picture of her on page 238 of the Clements and McMahon book taken from mid-tender and from behind the cab looking forward.Again either filthy black or grey.My logic for thinking she might be black in 1961 is that it would seem to have been CIE policy to give anything that had "late in the steam game" overhauls a coat of black. 402 apparently retired in '61 so it would be logical to think that she'd have been a locomotive that got overhauled late in the day and possibly outshopped in black. In Tom Ferris' book she also appears to be sporting her number on her smokebox face. 402 was the only B2 to have her running plate walkway on one level from cab to cylinders which made her a unique engine. Incidentally it is worth pointing out that there is no relationship between an LNER B12 (4-6-0) and an Irish B12 (4-4-0) just happened to have similar looking tenders. Same goes for my Irish B1 4-6-0 project which will be based on an LNER B1. Again no actual relationship just pure co-incidence. DAVY

Hi again guys thanks for the help and more welcomes. jhb 171 I'd really appreciate any more info you can find. On the subject of 800 class nameplates. I don't know what the original background colour was on the nameplates but there is a picture of 801 "Macha" on page 72 in Tom Ferris' book "Irish Railways in Colour" clearly showing her with single chimney and red name and cabside number plates. I have also seen a colour picture of "Tailte" also at Mallow also with red nameplate and cabside plate. So whether they started out blue like "Maeve" I don't know but Macha and Tailte both had red latterly. Macha and Tailte also had single chimneys latterly going by dated photographs but I don't know if the preserved loco Maeve ever got a single chimney. The 670 tank engine 673 on page 73 of the same book also in 1961 is definately black with red buffer beams so thats the loco I'll do my model as. I would like however to find out if B2a 402 was grey or black at the end. In Tom Ferris' book she is shown at Glanmire road shed Cork in 1961,either grey or black its impossible to tell. Whatever there is no sign of a green livery or lining at this time. She is one listed as having been green in the 50s. Anyway guys I'll keep digging and see what I can find. All good fun. Thanks again for the help. Slainte Davy ( i have just checked the two colour photos showing 800 class with red nameplates. both taken at Mallow ,one is reported as being Tailte ,a picture I lifted from the internet, no date given, it is a very similar shot to the one in Tom Ferris' book dated June 61 but is not the same photo as the folk on the platform in the background are different,however I'm wondering if it is indeed mis-identification for the undated photo certainly looks as if the number on the buffer beam could be 801 and not 802. ????) so another mystery ??? The plot thickens !!

Hi Guys, thanks for your welcome and input. I'm just about to try to add images ,so here goes.....2 pictures, one showing the three 800 class ,in various stages of completion. Single chimney version which will be "Tailte" at the forefront, waht will be Macha and Maeve with the double chimneys behind. The other picture from front to rear is a the old hornby "Sir Dinidan" severely chopped to (hopefully) represent CIE B2a 402 when finished. Behind that is a hornby 0-6-0 halfway to becoming a representation of a 670 tank.(probably 673 in black as at 1961) Cab shape isn't quite right but will hopefully at least "paint a picture" of something close. Last is a hornby Southern L1 en route to becoming a half decent representation of B12 305. All still need more details and work but its a start. Davy

Hi Guys, hi there,I'm a new guy on the block.Hope you don't mind a Scotsman joining in !!. I was over in Ireland a few months back and got severely interested in the Irish scene after a wee visit to Ballina station and railyard in Mayo. Took a liking to the Irish diesel locos and since coming home I've bought quite a few of the excellent Murphy models.At first I decided that I'd stick to the modern scene with preserved steam for a bit of variety.However as a long time steam fanatic once I started researching the Irish steam scene it pulled me towards the CIE 50s and 60s era and now I'm well and truly hooked. I now have umpteen projects on the go converting UK engines by Hornby ,Mainline,Airfix etc.,etc., to as near as I can similar Irish locos. I'm in the process of converting 3 rebuilt LMS patriots to the 3 Irish "queens", Maeve ,Macha and Tailte. I'm also working on a Hornby L1 4-4-0 to represent CIE B12 305, a hornby King Arthur 4-6-0 "Sir Dinidan" to represent the Irish B2 engine No 402. Also a Replica Railways B1 4-6-0 to Irish B1. A Hornby southern 0-6-0 to Irish 670 0-6-2 tank and a Southern M7 tank to CIE 0-4-4 279. I also have plans in the pipeline for other conversions based on the aIRFIX 0-6-0 and others . Anyway guys,that now brings me to my questions. I have bought some good books on Irish steam and have gleaned some good information on colourschemes etc., however there are some "grey" areas I'm wondering if anybody can help me with. In the book "Locomotives of the GSR",there is a list of locomotives that got the "green treatment" in CIE days. In the case of the 3 Queens,they appear to always have been lined out. Likewise the solitary 2-6-2 tank No850 definately ran with green livery and full lining which is corroborated in photos. However in the case of the 670 tanks which were given green paint jobs ,any photos I've seen of them all monochrome show no lining??. The last one in service 673 is pictured in 1961 in the book "Irish Railways in Colour" at Amiens street and is definately all black. The B2 I'm modelling 402 is also reported as being one of the locos to receive the green livery in the 50s but she is also pictured in 1961 in what appears to be either black or grey and carrying only the number 402 in either yellow or eau-de-nil (hard to tell) and no sign of any CIE snail logo on her tender. The B12 4-4-0 loco 305 I'm modelling is also reported as having received green but monochrome pictures of her in online galleries in the 1950s show no lining .The photographs are monochrome so can't tell if she's green ,grey or black ,but she is carrying a snail logo on her tender ??? So is it known if any locos got green without the black and white lining ? Anyway guys if you can throw any light on the subject I'd be most gratefull. I have been in touch with Railtec transfers here in the UK and Steve the proprietor is also interested in producing accurate decal sheets for CIE steam era. He has already done eau-de-nil snails and numerals for me. We thought that some CIE locos had yellow snails but apparently ???, all snails on locos irrespective of green,grey or black livery were always eau-de-nil. Is this correct ? Anyway ,all the best from Sotland and thanks for listening. Slainte ! Davy Cormack (Scotland)

Hi Guys, hi there,I'm a new guy on the block.Hope you don't mind a Scotsman joining in !!. I was over in Ireland a few months back and got severely interested in the Irish scene after a wee visit to Ballina station and railyard in Mayo. Took a liking to the Irish diesel locos and since coming home I've bought quite a few of the excellent Murphy models.At first I decided that I'd stick to the modern scene with preserved steam for a bit of variety.However as a long time steam fanatic once I started researching the Irish steam scene it pulled me towards the CIE 50s and 60s era and now I'm well and truly hooked. I now have umpteen projects on the go converting UK engines by Hornby ,Mainline,Airfix etc.,etc., to as near as I can similar Irish locos. I'm in the process of converting 3 rebuilt LMS patriots to the 3 Irish "queens", Maeve ,Macha and Tailte. I'm also working on a Hornby L1 4-4-0 to represent CIE B12 305, a hornby King Arthur 4-6-0 "Sir Dinidan" to represent the Irish B2 engine No 402. Also a Replica Railways B1 4-6-0 to Irish B1. A Hornby southern 0-6-0 to Irish 670 0-6-2 tank and a Southern M7 tank to CIE 0-4-4 279. I also have plans in the pipeline for other conversions based on the aIRFIX 0-6-0 and others . Anyway guys,that now brings me to my questions. I have bought some good books on Irish steam and have gleaned some good information on colourschemes etc., however there are some "grey" areas I'm wondering if anybody can help me with. In the book "Locomotives of the GSR",there is a list of locomotives that got the "green treatment" in CIE days. In the case of the 3 Queens,they appear to always have been lined out. Likewise the solitary 2-6-2 tank No850 definately ran with green livery and full lining which is corroborated in photos. However in the case of the 670 tanks which were given green paint jobs ,any photos I've seen of them all monochrome show no lining??. The last one in service 673 is pictured in 1961 in the book "Irish Railways in Colour" at Amiens street and is definately all black. The B2 I'm modelling 402 is also reported as being one of the locos to receive the green livery in the 50s but she is also pictured in 1961 in what appears to be either black or grey and carrying only the number 402 in either yellow or eau-de-nil (hard to tell) and no sign of any CIE snail logo on her tender. The B12 4-4-0 loco 305 I'm modelling is also reported as having received green but monochrome pictures of her in online galleries in the 1950s show no lining .The photographs are monochrome so can't tell if she's green ,grey or black ,but she is carrying a snail logo on her tender ??? So is it known if any locos got green without the black and white lining ? Anyway guys if you can throw any light on the subject I'd be most gratefull. I have been in touch with Railtec transfers here in the UK and Steve the proprietor is also interested in producing accurate decal sheets for CIE steam era. He has already done eau-de-nil snails and numerals for me. We thought that some CIE locos had yellow snails but apparently ???, all snails on locos irrespective of green,grey or black livery were always eau-de-nil. Is this correct ? Anyway ,all the best from Sotland and thanks for listening. Slainte ! Davy Cormack (Scotland)