ShaneC

Thanks for info! I'd only seen a few of them recently - seem to be more popular in the German market than UK/Ireland

I've seen a few German manufacturers have started doing operational pantographs on mass-production models now recently but I don't think I've ever seen doors. Has anyone spotted any models with working doors? Reason I ask is I'm tempted to re-print my Mk4 coaches with the doors as seperate pieces to try make this happen but I'm a bit skeptical whether the mechanism could be made small enough in OO scale to where it can't be seen inside the coach. I figure there must be a reason it's never been done..

Can't seem to find an actual downloadable file for this font. I mean the pre-2013 one they used in their Logo and on some signage / bulletin boards:

As I've said a few times, thanks for all the info that's been provided. That being said I do own a business (not in modelling and B2C not B2B) that uses MSLA 3D-printers as a core component and I've previously sub-contracted out work to other commericial printers on numerous occasions - I'm saying with that knowledge that some prices quoted here are way out of whack with industry norms. 3000% markups just aren't normal. You're talking about R&D costs and the like but what was being discussed was a printer just be sent the model files and printing them off, they aren't doing the research or design. I will consider doing that butI don't have the setup for painting accessories and it seems the interest in the Irish market for kits is somewhat limited. Thank you for the callout though, I will keep your words in mind, it was certainly not my intention to cause an argument or any offense.

I had a parcel coming from the UK via DPD last week and they emailed me in advance of delivery with a link to pay for duties. Not experienced similar with An Post deliveries yet, I think it depends on the shippers setup and the value of goods.

True although unlike FDM printers, MSLA printers take the same time to print no matter how many models are on the plate. A higher-end MSLA desktop printer (€2500-3000) could print 20-50 OO scale models worth of parts a day and again, consumables / electricity are minimal on a per-model basis. €1 max, being generous. I don't disagree print houses need to make a profit but €140 for €5 worth of parts is madness.

30 models worth of prints or 30 parts for a single model? Sounds absolutely crazy pricing if the latter. A OO scale model shouldn't be more than 100g of resin total, regardless of part count. That's ~€2-3 with 20-25% for waste / supports. Add another ~€1 max. to that for other costs (screen/laser & machine depreciation, consumables like FEP film etc.)

Geez shapeways sure aren't cheap! €27 + €15 shipping for a €1 part - I think the designer gets a portion of that 27 but still.

Source? Going off of publicly available figures they appear to be either 4th or 5th by revenue with $13.6M gross in 2019. They do make more coach and wagon stock than locomotives. Here's an in-depth video of their US-based production: Good point, I'd expect HO/OO models have significantly more parts.

You mentioned Marklin but there is others - perhaps none that are too popular in the European market. Micro-Trains (one of the largest N scale producers globally) has their production fully in the US, a quick search of their jobs listings shows they pay $11-12/hour an hour for semi-skilled painting/assembly workers, that's about equivalent to our minimum wage right now and $14-18/hour for skilled workers. They undercut most of the China-produced models with similar levels of detail on price by 20-30%.. There's also Kato who manufacture in Japan - not a country known for cheap labour. If you search up for videos of the Marklin factory on YouTube and then compare with the factory tour videos of say Rapido - who have moved production within China multiple times in search of cheaper labour, there's clearly great time savings that can be achieved with automation and more established processes - the Chinese operations just don't implement these as labour is currently cheap enough that they don't have to. So it doesn't seem impossible, though obviously both those companies are decades old and have since established local expertise, the costs of creating a new operation in Ireland / UK could well be cost prohibitive.

Damn £3000 for just printed parts for a prototype is a complete rip-off. You could buy a desktop MSLA printer capable of printing 10-15 locos worth of parts a day for that money and enough consumables / resin to print for a month too.

I just don't think this would be the case - you've got for example Micro-trains in the US who manufacture in the US and their model RRP are less than most Irish / British providers (even accounting for VAT). Simply put - any profit lost per unit is made back in being able to bring new models to market faster / having more releases per year with the same amount of capex. Regardless I understand the reasons why makers outsource oversees and thanks to all the answers given here! Some really interesting info.

That's painted and assembled as well I'd imagine, not just the body printed? Labour shouldn't be that much more in Ireland vs. China. I don't know where IRM has their production but more often than not the big US & European mode producers have factories in Dongguan - a city with very high wages for semi-skilled/skilled workers, a long on-going worker shortage and high safety standards compared to other Chinese regions. Wages there are only 40-60% below Irish wages for semi-skilled workers, granted they probably work more than 40 hour weeks. But it's not like wages are a tenth of here.

I believe Shapeways use SLS printing for their 3D prints which is a method of printing that sinters layers of plastic powder together using a laser. Has the benefit of being fast for reasonable levels of quality but it results in that grainy type texture you see on the models from them.

Have a feeling you're talking about FDM printing here not SLA. Pretty much all the latest SLA printers print at resolutions as low as 50-55 microns (20th of 1mm). You'd be hard pressed to spot a layer line with the naked eye on a Z-scale model (see-below) at that resolution let alone a OO-scale model - no sanding or acetone baths required: (image from reddit) Interesting info, thanks for the reply! Are you able to say how much of your costs for each model goes on the cost of the moulds/material vs. labour/assembly? I guess it's the painting time that really adds the costs.

Just trying to understand the logic behind producing the models in China / Asia using injection moulding vs. doing it locally using SLA printing. It seems sort-of crazy to spend €20-50K (if blog posts from British producers are to be believed) for runs of 500-1000 locomotives on moulds alone and having 12-18 month lead times on new products. Is it to do with labor costs associated with the painting & assembly that more pushes things to China? Or skepticism from modellers over 3D-printing quality (better than injection moulded for newer SLA printing). From some quick maths it seems like local production would be on-par for costs with cheaper material but higher labour costs and no shipping costs but while cutting lead times by i'd say ~75-80%. Unless my costings are way off because I've only printed some scratch-built models for myself and nothing commercial. Shane.

Seeking permission for reproducing logos/trademarked names is normal in any industry as to not infringe on copyrights. I doubt liveries would be covered, nor the design of the vehicle / model itself so you would probably be fine legality-wise, reproducing e.g. that calendonia sleeper model without using their logo, their branding or their name on model or on the box, the marketing etc. But they can go after you for the use of branding & name if used without permission - though it's highly unlikely they would if it was a personal scratch build and not something built for sale. The only part that I'm confused on is whether that applies to state-owned companies. But I guess I'll go with the seeking permission as a courtesy route if that's the industry norm.

Thanks for the info! Is that for public-owned companies (CIE/IE, BE, Dublin Bus etc.) too do you know? Permission is sought for every model?

Anyone have any information on how this works? Specifically for public transit companies and for factory-printed models not decals. Are modellers seeking permission and/or paying license fees for each model they produce or is it more of a just do it and hope nothing comes of it type deal.