Lambeg man

5 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

At least Bundoran Jct was a fairly complicated place, but I'm having a nightmare with a series of shots at Portadown on 13 July 1963 - the Sham Fight Day at Scarva. Now ....... the sequence begins with the 5pm Derry arriving with the VS Class No.207, which isn't allowed up the Derry Road. She's relieved by S Class No.170, but in the middle of all of that a WT arrives with a train from Dublin and much shuffling goes on, so that there are not one shot on the Bann Bridge of No.170, but FOUR! By the time all this shuffling and dealing has finished  she eventually sets off for Derry.

Hi Les,

Someone else identifies the 'WT' No. 53 as having arrived with a stopper from BELFAST. It ran into platform 3 and then ran around its train via platform 4. It did so while the 'VS' and the 'S' were shuffling about between the Bann Siding, platform 1 and platform 2 where the Derry train was waiting. The figure hanging out of the cab in your excellent photo is Laurence Liddle. Des Fitzgerald was also there at the same time photographing.

Kind Regards, LM

5 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Ideally we need the WTT

I have not got a WTT for 1956 (the summer the photo's were taken), but here are the Winter 1955 and Summer 1957 which may be of some help.

Winter 1955:

It would appear from the crayon marking that this copy of the WTT was in use at Bundoran Junction!

Summer 1957

I have very recently purchased an old Triang/Hornby DMU cheap as chips, purely for the motor bogie. This however had the old 'Super 4' chunky wheels. To get replacement wheels I tried contacting a couple of parties that were recommended to me, but none even replied. Then I saw this guy advertising in the 'Railway Modeller'.

Dave Good, trading as "Scalespeed", 32 Goldfinch Lane, Lee on Solent, Hants PO13 8LN. His website is www.scalespeed.co.uk.

I sent him all four of my T/H DMU power bogies. For about £25 (including P&P) each, all now have Code 100 wheels, have been re-magnatized, re-brushed, cleaned, etc. and he also fitted extra wires to allow electrical pickup from another bogie. Two of them power my two BUT sets, the other two are headed for an MPD and a Class 70 projects which are under way.

He does a big range of motor refurbishment. Turnaround time was about five days.

I can not recommend Dave's services highly enough. 

The last '900' car to come from Dundalk Works in late October 1958 was actually turned out in CIE 'green' livery as the GNR(B) had ceased railway operations on 30th September that year.

As the paint was hardly dry on most, the UTA initially did nothing to its inheritance of BUT (and AEC Railcars) other a) apply their new UTA numbers and b) then stick their 'red hand' crest over the GNR number on the cab fronts and sides. Repainting into UTA 'green' did not apparently start until 1960. The 'wasp' warning panels appeared later the same year when some of the older Railcars were still in the GNR 'blue/cream' livery.

UTA Railcar No. 101 (formerly GNR Railcar 'A') arrived at Omagh on a service from Derry circa 1961 - Rev. John Parker    

Hi Ernie,

Another picture (taken by W.E. Robertson) of that coach roof board appears in the book Irish Railways in the 1950's and 1960's and that picture clearly shows that roof board in the picture is in two halves.

I am guessing the "Derry" half came from a "Derry-Dublin" roof board that would have been used on a Dublin-Derry 'Through' carriage prior to June 1957 when such workings ceased. The "Belfast" half was probably part of a former "Belfast-Enniskillen" roof board for the through coach between those two places, a service that ceased in September 1957.

On 9/17/2020 at 5:22 PM, MikeO said:

The P1 vans are numbered 779, 780 and 781 no build date given.

'P 1' vans were built in 1930. The three members of classification 'P 1' were 48' 0" x 8' 5" over body and weighed 24½ tons. In terms of construction they had a timber body and timber under-framing and all passed to CIÉ. Classification 'P 2' were slightly different, being 47' 6" x 8' 5" over body and weighing 23 tons. The sliding doors were 6" wider than the 5' 0" doors of classification 'P 1'. In construction terms these had timber bodies but steel underframes. On the dissolution of the GNR in 1958 only two 'P 2' vans went to the UTA, the remaining eight went to CIE, who formally withdrew all their 'P' vans in 1973.

The following photograph of an NIR (ex-GNR) 'P 2' was taken at Larne Harbour in 1971 and has been lifted from the interweb. Copyright may belong to Jonathan Allen.

Is this of any use?

I think the cab windows were all the same size. In photographs the right hand one (the driver's window) tends to look bigger because of the practice of painting the frame of this window in silver / light grey. 

14 hours ago, airfixfan said:

Nice film of UTA steam to illustrate slip coaches on the Dublin -Cork line even including a Jeep hauling a failed MPD set! No mention of the only NG slip coach on the Ballymena and Larne.

Culled from the Midland Publishing "Irish Miscellany" Volume One video... Interesting about that NG slip.... At one time or another 'Slipping' on the GNR(I) was carried out at Malahide, Skerries, Drogheda, Goraghwood and Lisburn.

Hi Ernie,

The location for this one is Eastwood's scrap yard in Andytown, West Belfast.

Here is the Belfast Telegraph copy....... Note the wall is the same....

From the Belfast Telegraph: The final resting place for 20-year-old tank locomotive Patricia as she is swung into place in Eastwood's scrapyard at Andersonstown, Belfast, beside her "twin" Wilfred. The two "locos" which are still in working order, came from Courtaulds factory at Carrickfergus, where they were used for hauling coal. They will remain on show in the yard for a couple of years and may then be broken up for scrap. (27/01/1968)

I would have thought 1968 for the year, given that the railcars in the distance are in both UTA & NIR liveries, but 1967 may also be possible. The CIE locomotive has already run around it's Dublin-Belfast 'Enterprise' train and is about to propel it (or is already in the process) back into platform 2 at GVS. This sets the time as being about 11.15 or 17.10.  Excellent photograph Ernie.

6 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

What beautiful script those reports are written in. I started to be taught that style in primary school  but in came italic so my hand writing looks like neither! I do enjoy these snippets of railway history. And how learned this group is.

I totally agree. 

17 hours ago, GNRi1959 said:

Lambeg Man, - they are ALL electrofrog EXCEPT one - NOT a mix as you describe. They are gone already so I presume you were not interested anyway.

Sorry if my post was viewed as a negative criticism. That was not my intention. Happy to read your result.  

A very nice offer, but any potential buyer should be aware that they are a MIX of "insulfrog" and "electrofrog", the two types not generally being compatible on the same layout. I have accidentally mixed them in the past with frustrating consequences. 

Hi Ernie,

The top photo is indeed SLNCR No. 3. It was purchased from the GNR(I) in June 1929 and was originally classified an 'R 5' by the previous owners. In the photo it is a 1st/3rd compo with a double door luggage compartment in the centre. Any more carriage gems like this ?

Equally interesting is the GNR(B) loco coal wagon, obviously loaded and sitting in a siding in the SLNCR yard.

Regards 

LM  

Hi Ernie,

The top one was taken from the Black's Road overbridge between Finaghy and Dunmurry. The train is passing the site of where the M1 overbridge is today. The same image is reproduced (in colour) in the book "The Ulster Transport Authority in Colour". Full caption details are provided.

Can not help with the second one, other than to add that No. 174 has the 'CIE' stencil on the buffer beam and the second carriage in blue/cream is the 'B 4' Dining Car No. 403 in GNR 'Railcar' livery, dating the picture to 1958/59. It is a Belfast-Dublin service which No. 174 has POSSIBLY taken over at Dundalk, putting the location as being south thereof. I say all that based on the fact John photographed this particular train set at Drogheda on Tuesday 29th September 1958 when it was a through working hauled by a 'V' class No. 86. The use of an 'S' suggests this photo was later. The terrain would jive with Kellystown.

Regards

LM 

"Irish Railways Traction & Travel" (2nd edition) has a photo by Chris Walker dated 21.01.1989 taken at Connolly of NIR First Open No. 904 in service in an 'Enterprise' set, but still in full BR 'Intercity' blue/grey livery.  

2 hours ago, airfixfan said:

Thanks but it is that article that I am still looking for hopefully?

Hi Airfixfan,

I take it that my PM was not what you were looking for?

LM

On Sundays I always do a sweep of the 'Talking Pictures' channel for the week ahead looking for those BT films. Some of them are very good.  

Ernie, you are a star. I had forgotten the 'Rails Around Dublin' photo. The credit "SLS Collection" indicates it is a Camwell photo? So possibly he also took the one I have asked about?

Many thanks to all who took the trouble to pitch in and solve this one. Well done JHB for spotting the "spiked" tramway rails. SUTTON it is!

Hi all, lifted this from wickipedia -

It appears to confirm Sutton, but as JHB said where was that platform in relation to Sutton station proper? Looking on the map featured in  http://irishrailwayarchitecture.blogspot.com/2018/11/watt-shock-sutton.html?m=1 there is no track shown in the area where the picture was presumably taken from (looking north towards the station?

Hi Ernie,

Many thanks for that suggestion. However the footbridge at Sutton was not covered in this 1957 Norman Simmons picture. Was it previously covered?

Well, another query solved. Thanks guys for taking the trouble. Don't know why I thought it was Larne.

Here is one more picture I need help with. This might not even be Irish as there was nothing on the back of the photo when I bought it. However at first glance I thought the track looked too wide for 4' 8 1/2". I thought they might be the DNGR locomotives after the line closed. If they are, where was this one taken?

Location? Date? Photographer? Any help appreciated.

4 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

That image of Ballyboley Junction is amazing - thanks for sharing it Lambeg Man and of course it begs the question....any more???

Thank you to JHB and Gavin for confirming the location. I bought the photo and the one reproduced below at a jumble sale many years ago. The only thing on the back of each was "W C" which is why I guessed they were taken by W. Camwell. There is no other information on them. The year must be 1949?

Presumed to be the same train as in the other photo, leaving Larne for Ballyclare. Any additional information gratefully received.

The UTA appears to have hung on to engines and stock for certain lines (e.g. The BCDR section) after closure until they finally got the abandonment order. Perhaps this was the case with the Ballycastle branch?

The above photo (which is from my own collection) is probably a W. Camwell picture, possibly taken in 1949 at what I think is Ballyboley Junction. I realize it does not help with the original question but I thought people might like to see it anyway.

On 4/6/2020 at 3:20 PM, airfixfan said:

Boyd is very reliable and his book Saga on rail Ireland with many great photos and details is well worth tracking down.

The following corrections to the book Saga by Rail: Ireland should be noted. Page 12 - No. 60 was an 'S' class not an 'A' and the photo was taken at Adelaide not Portadown. Page 14 - No. 49 was a 'UG' class not an 'SG3', same page No. 36 was an 'SG3' not an 'AL' and Page 15 (upper) No. 171 is shunting back a goods train it has just hauled from Belfast not a "Westward bound goods ..... for Clones". Page 25 - The text seems to suggest that the railbus in the photo is on a Cookstown branch service. It was GNR(I) built as Railbus No. 4 but is pictured as GNR(B) No. 8177 (a departmental vehicle) after it was renumbered and is clearly on a departmental 'inspection' duty. Page 30 - No. 62 was an 'S' class not a 'T 2' and Page 46 - No. 66 was a 'U' class not a 'T 2'. I can not comment on any of the other picture captions in the book as my knowledge of narrow gauge stuff is weak.