Lambeg man

MODS - Please delete. LM

On 20/4/2022 at 6:39 PM, Old Blarney said:

I'm sorry to have to correct you.

No need for apology David, good job you are around to correct my statement. You learn something new every day! 

1 hour ago, StevieB said:

Is that the one which is at the National Tramway Museum, Crich?

No, I don't think it is. The one at Crich is a double deck GNR 'Hill of Howth Tramway' vehicle. The one in the photo is a single decker. It is possibly one of the DUTC trams that ran from Dublin to Howth, but not to the 'Summit' of the Hill of Howth? However I will stand corrected.

11 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

Ernie I'd say a lot of those hits are mine!!!  We owe you a lot for sharing so many exceptional images 

And me! Many, many thanks to you Ernie. Your efforts are appreciated by a lot of people.

11 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

The adverts get on my wick but then so do the ones on the TV which I invariably mute!

And I thought I was alone!!!

Henry Casserley???

Micheal Costeloe

The 1961 Tour Party photographed at Banagher 8th June 1961. One presumes Mr. Dennison may be present. Any of you older sweats willing to have a go at identifying any of the participants? The catering crew from the Kitchen Car go without saying, but who were the women???

Noted photographers on this trip (whose work has been published elsewhere) were Keith Pirt, David Lawrence, Rev. John Parker, Greg Child, R. Cole, D. Penney and T.B. Owen. 'Bob' Clements is somewhere in this.

4 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

204 & 132 + ? , Amiens Street shed

Left to right, CIE 'S' No. 174N, CIE 'Q' No. 132N & UTA 'VS' No. 58. Photo taken on the morning of Sunday 4th June 1961.

4 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

85 & railcar 2648 at Amiens St Station

CIE 'V' No. 85 about to leave with SLS/RTCS/IRRS special to Belfast on Friday 9th June 1961. The 'V' worked the train as far as Dundalk where UTA 'WT' No. 55 was waiting to work the remainder of the journey.

4 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

132 said to be on the Oldcastle branch . Where anyone?

On Saturday 3rd June 1961 the IRRS special hauled by CIE 'Q' No. 132N. The route taken was Amiens Street - Clonsilla - Navan - Kingscourt - Navan - Oldcastle - Navan - Drogheda - Amiens Street. The flat bottomed rails seen in the photo would tend to indicate a location between Navan and Kingscourt.  

The full list for CIE carriage number prefixes and suffixes (all are suffixes unless otherwise noted) which indicated the origin or purpose is as follows:

A - GS&WR vehicles confined to departmental use only

AM - Ambulance Coaches

B - CB&SCR (as already mentioned by JHB)

C - West Clare (Narrow Gauge)

D - D&SER

HC - Holiday Camping Coaches

J - Timoleague & Courtmacsherry

K -  Cork & Muskerry (Narrow Gauge)

L - Cavan & Leitrim (Narrow Gauge)

M - M&GWR

N - GNR (in addition to which a prefix 'C' was added)

O (Prefix) - GS&WR locomotive coal wagons (which were numbered in their own series)

P - Cork, Blackrock & Passage (Narrow Gauge)

PXP - Vehicles not fit for traffic, but used as mobile stores

R - Cork & Macroom Direct

RS (Prefix) - Radio Studio Coaches

S - Schull & Skibbereen (Narrow Gauge)

S (Post 1964) - Secondary Coaching Stock

T - Tralee & Dingle (Narrow Gauge)

V - Could appear anywhere on the bodywork to indicate scrapping has been recommended

W - Waterford & Tramore

X -  Could appear anywhere on the bodywork to indicate scrapping has been approved

XP - Non-passenger vehicle that may run in a passenger train

Source: IRISH RAILWAYS TODAY (1967)

On 11/4/2022 at 7:58 AM, Irishswissernie said:

Portadown 16 March 1963

Hi Ernie,

Brilliant stuff as always, many thanks for taking the time to post. Pretty sure that is the end of the UP platform at LISBURN. The 'gallows' starter signal and water column are the indicators. Not sure any Portadown platform ends had such an arrangement. LM  

12 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

Lisburn 15 Sept 1959 U Class 200

Hi Ernie,

Excellent stuff as always. The Roy Dennison photo is captioned "Friday 15th May 1959" in The Great Northern Railway (Ireland) in Colour. Again Chris Gamell was in Roy's company as his photo of the same train featured on the cover of the IRRS Journal a few years back. Norman Johnston presumed it to be a Belfast-Newry service. The locomotive was by this date officially UTA No. 65 but had yet to be renumbered.

12 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

also an open slat sided wagon  which reminds me of wagons to carry empty beer kegs/ milk churns  etc  .

I will stand corrected, but is that not one of the turf wagons provided during 'The Emergency'?

12 hours ago, Galteemore said:

A GN ‘P’ van in the train.

I think I am correct in saying this is the 14.30 Dublin-Belfast service. The 'P' van was marshalled at the front but was then dropped off at either Drogheda or Dundalk to be taken further by a later service. 

10 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

Next is 'Pet' on the coal line at Glanmire Road same date.

Hi Ernie,

Great material as ever. The locomotive in question was named 'PAT'. The name 'Pet' was incorrectly used by Colin Boocock in Irish Railway Album.

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

I want one in MGWR lined green, and also in GNR blue & CDRJC red for Eamon Ryan’s new Sligo - Donegal - Derry-Hi line.

Me too, as well as one in BCDR green please!

Many thanks for posting Patrick. Do we know who the photographer was?

The actual footage of the 1964 Steam Railtour does not start until 04.28. The prior footage may date from later as that of Newry at 01.03 appears to be post 1965 closure.

The main tour started on Saturday 6th June 1964, but the early scenes were recorded on a preliminary outing the previous day to Ardee, & Howth. The station at 05.15 is Rush & Lusk. The grey GM at 06.19 is arriving with the 08.15 Belfast-Dublin service (UTA coaching stock). The locomotive took over the train at Dundalk. Station at 06.50 is Dromin Junction. 07.50 shows arrival of the special at Ardee. 08.20 returning to Drogheda passing under the "buckets" (arial ropeway) used by the Cement Factory.

10.28 to 16.30 approx is all Saturday 6th June 1964.

16.30 to  24.10 approx is all Sunday 7th - obviously a Sunday judging with the children's attire at 23.54!

24.10 to  26.34 - Monday "The Kerry Circuit"

26.35 to...

Sorry I have to give up here. 32.00 is Fenit which was visited on the 8th, but the preceding and following footage was shot on later days, so the footage does not appear to be in chronological order.

37.48 onwards was taken Thursday 11th. 57.44 shows the ex-GNR 'Q' class No. 131 (which is now preserved by the RPSI) which on this date was dragged out of storage at Mullingar by CIE purely for the benefit of photographers on the tour.

WOW! At 41.47 look at the departing BUT set. The date is 11th June 1964 and the Brake/2nd in the set is still in full GNR 'Railcar' livery!!! 

53.24 onwards was taken on Friday 12th June. 

57.44 onwards was taken the following day.

On 8/2/2022 at 5:33 PM, StevieB said:

Lovely stuff. Just out of interest, what was 152 doing parked in the sidings at Warrenpoint?

Being a Saturday, B152 was on an excursion from the south. Warrenpoint for some unexplained reason was a favored destination for CIE excursions. Therefore if modelling Warrenpoint in the 1960's, 141 GM's, CIE liveried 'AEC' & 'BUT' Railcar sets, etc. (not to mention CIE Goods vehicles) would not be out of place.

3 hours ago, Galteemore said:

They own it too. Took over ABE in 2008.

Gawd, it's like "Milo Enterprises" in 'CATCH 22'!!! How long before I reach for a piece of toilet paper and see the Amazon logo on it? My wife and I are greatly cheered by the supportive messages. Thanks guys. LM

8 hours ago, spudfan said:

I have never bought anything from AMAZON.

Sorry, this is off-thread, but don't start me about Amazon!!! For anybody who is unaware, Amazon have no contact telephone number. Any communication has to be "online" and that means opening an account with them. In my case I discovered recently that Amazon were taking some form of monthly subscription from my wife's CREDIT card. She has suffered a stroke and is unable to communicate clearly. Unable to find out through her what this payment was for, I tried to contact Amazon. "Enter your e-mail and password". I have no idea what her Amazon password is. Contacted the bank, who are unable to cancel the payment. However the lady at the bank said she had dealt with similar problems people had with Amazon and suggested the best option was to simply close the account, which I have done. F**k Amazon. Just like Spudfan I will NEVER buy anything from Amazon... Rant over, feeling better now...

7 hours ago, airfixfan said:

Love the Mogul photo in particular

No. 91 'The Bush' clearly ex-Works with the larger tender from No. 101 which it gained in 1956. This was the first Mogul transferred to the former GNR section post 1958.

Now - Omagh?

1900 - Ardara, Cushendall, Ballywalter, Kilkeel (Co. Down), Lisdoonvarna, Callan (Co. Kilkenny) or Passage East (Co. Waterford)? Is there a correct answer to this question David? If so, put us all out of our misery! LM

Hi David,

Yes, it was indeed Sammy WALLACE. He lived in Ballynaskeagh, south of Lambeg. Noel Scott from Lisburn station was the regular Rest Day Relief porter at this time.

8 hours ago, DAVID WILSON said:

Mr Campbell moved to Adavoyle as signalman when Mr McIntyre arrived.

Platform Foreman to Signalman? Surely a move down the grades? Obviously not someone I was familiar with.

8 hours ago, DAVID WILSON said:

Mr McIntyre hailed from around Armagh

I  must scour the 2nd 'Golden Years' book to see if he gets a mention. - LM 

On 13/3/2022 at 1:43 PM, jhb171achill said:

The ones I worked on had only UTA sheet steel panelling. Whatever might been be been underneath was long gone.

There were 9 & 114. The old nraa as JR third, 595, which fell to pieces from rot, I cannot comment on but I suspect it was the same.

By contrast, most of the RPSI’s ex-NCC stock had aluminum panelling put on by the UTA, ageing without anything older underneath.

10 hours ago, Mayner said:

Masonite is a US trade name for Tempered Hardboard, which would have fitted in with wartime & GNR(I) economy measures. Michael Baker described the relatively poor condition of the bodywork on recently withdrawn ex-GNR coaches in an early 1970s  magazine article or book on CIE. The GNR(I) appears to have used softwood framing in combination with hardboard paneling during and possibly following the War which would have lead to the relatively short life of modern GNR coaching stock.

Thanks to both of you for that. Below is a reply I received from a guy called Alan who worked on the relevant carriages in the 1970's. I have MY comments on what he wrote in red.

Hello Steve,
 

I am not sure if the information below will answer your questions or not but it is my recollection of the RPSI's GN coaches. All of the GNR coaches (except 50, the Directors' Saloon) purchased by the RPSI were vehicles which had been converted for use with AEC or BUT railcars. They were therefore modified to a greater or lesser extent. Some of the re-panelling in aluminium may date from this conversion and may have happened before the UTA.

Coach 114, for example is re-panelled in this style, yet was one of the vehicles which passed to CIE. I suspect "Masonite" is a brand name. Railwaymen generally referred to it as "Hardboard" paneling, as indeed it was. It was not very durable, and many vehicles panelled with it developed alarming looking bulges and ripples. Nevertheless, several vehicles survived to the end with this type of panelling.

All of these GN vehicles had curved corners to the window openings to accommodate rubber beading for mounting the glass. With the aluminum panelled coaches the curves were integral with the panels themselves. With steel or hardboard panelled coaches there was usually a separate steel sub frame round the window opening.

Here is what I remember about the RPSI Vehicles:

231 / 562 Brake First Corridor: Aluminium panelled - most likely a UTA job. Horizontally aligned tongue & groove boarding underneath panelling.

227 / 561 First Corridor: Steel panels (a few aluminium replacements) with separate steel window surrounds. Horizontally aligned tongue & groove boarding underneath panelling.

88 / 552 Dining Car: Aluminium panelled. (Recorded as being steel panelled when built.) 

176 / 583 Open Third: Aluminium panelled. There was vertically aligned tongue & groove boarding underneath the panelling (The original K 23’s were all built with this type of panelling. When they were rebuilt as K 15, it is recorded that the new panelling was placed over the original. I presumed the ‘new’ panelling was Masonite, but it is possible the GNR used aluminium.) - this coach was a conversion from a K 23 workmens' coach.

98 / 581  Open Third: Retained hardboard panelling, with separate steel window surrounds.

9 / 586 Open Third (AEC Driving Trailer): Aluminium panelled. 

127 / 556 / 727 Open Third (originally buffet car): Aluminum panels above the waistline, steel panels below. The steel panels were most likely an NIR era repair. (It was built as a K 15 in 1943, then rebuilt as a K 23 Buffet Car in 1951 and fitted to work with AEC Railcars. In 1957 it was fitted to run with BUT Railcars and stayed as such until 1966 when the UTA removed the Bar fittings and it became an open second. Then in 1969 it was fitted to run with the 70 class set working the 'Enterprise' roster as a support trailer for the Buffet Car. So take your pick as to when the body panelling was modified!)

114 Brake Third: Aluminum panelled.

? / 595 Brake Third - Some aluminium and some steel panels

Other GNR coaches not purchased by the RPSI:

554 Dining Car: (Built 1950) - Retained hardboard panelling

551 Dining Car: (Built 1936 and recorded as having been built with steel panels. This particular vehicles got a serious bash around at Duncrue Street in the early 1960's - windows altered, droplights removed, doors panelled over, etc.) Aluminium Panelled

400 Open Third: (Original K 15, built 1935 and recorded as being built with steel panels) Steel panelled. This coach remained in steam hauled stock and was not converted for railcar use.

584 Open Third: (Built 1942 as a K 23 'Workmen's coach. Rebuilt as a K 15 in 1947. Fitted to work with BUT Railcars in 1957) Aluminium panelled.

This question was raised as part of my research into the subject of GNR Carriages. I had read ONE (and only one) source who stated that in 1957/58 the intermediates being fitted to work within the then new BUT trains were re-panelled with "steel" panelling. From what Allan has written it is likely they were re-panelled but with aluminium, not with steel. In fact some may have already been either re-panelled with aluminium prior to 1957 or indeed been built with aluminium panelling after the War. However that does not explain the Diner which became No. 554 still having 'Masonite' panelling by the time of withdrawal in 1973.

Such is the fun of research!!!

12 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

Ex GNRI 19 Dec 1959 . The slides are captioned 'Last Day Special' for Castleblaney & Carrickmacross.

Yes, an IRRS special to travel over the remaining INWR lines that were still open on that date. The lines were officially closed 12 days later. John Langford is is somewhere in the second photo.

On 13/3/2022 at 12:12 PM, DAVID WILSON said:

At Lambeg there was also a senior porter called Percy Gibson when I was a child.  I don't remember his face but apparently he was quite a character.

Fascinating material David. Per-1965 Willie McIntyre is the only Lambeg railway man I remember. My nannie was a 'southerner' and I have often wondered if Willie from the south as they clearly got on very well.

I was informed much later that one of the signalmen at Lambeg had the surname Jackson, but I know nothing else about him. Post 1965 Lambeg was downgraded to a 'Halt' coming under Lisburn and the two regular 'Porters' were then Tommy Morrison and Sammy (surname forgotten).

Morrison used to leave me to issue any tickets needed for the 08.15 Lisburn-Belfast while he went over to the up platform building to sort tickets for the about the same time Belfast-Lisburn service.

On a winter's day both Tommy and Sammy had a great fire going, in the down platform ticket office... I was often glad I was allowed in!

Do you remember the "Ulster Railway" embossed fire fender in the main waiting room? How I wish I had that away when the station was de-staffed in 1969! 

5 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

I'm pretty sure it was Roy Dennison, although I am not certain.

Looks likely. Another photo of his showing No. 84 on the Kilrea goods and shunting at Magerafelt on the same date appears in one of the printed colour albums. He was at Lisburn and Goraghwood the previous day. It would appear he was travelling in the company of Chris Gammell who was also photographing on the Derry Central on the same date.

6 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

A couple of ex NCC views today of Magherafelt station 16May1959

Hi Ernie, do you know who the photographer was? LM

Just out from Totem Publishing (The Transport Treasury) is a new book complied by two esteemed Irish authors, Charles Friel and Michael McMahon, entitled "RAILS AROUND IRELAND".

This book is a collection of 83 black & white photographs that range from circa 1914 up to the early 1960's, none of which I have seen published before. The format is a journey from Dun Laoghaire clockwise around Ireland finishing at Larne Harbour. The captions are lengthy and very informative. From the modeler's point of view is the value that this is not a book with the usual parade of locomotive portraits, but of Irish railway SCENES. To comment on any one image would take too long. Buy it now and see for yourself. GNR, GSWR, GSR, MGWR, SLNCR, CDRJC, NCC, they are ALL there!

At £13.50, the price of three coffees, it is highly recommended. Buy a copy now before stocks are exhausted. Available from the publishers or through the RPSI book sales team