Lambeg man

Many thanks to BSGSV for providing a full answer to this one. The down line was provided with a distant, then an outer home, then an inner home that was sited outside the 'Long Siding' for sighting purposes. The up starter was around the bend from the platform and there was an advanced starter further on. The same arrangement applied for the up line, the double armed repeater up starter being on the down platform. At the north end of the up platform was a starter for the branch bay only. A single branch home was situated beyond the bridge.

The two trailing crossovers between the up and down main lines, the lead into the branch and the access to the 'Long Siding' were all provided with shunting disc ground signals.

BSGSV states "I don't see any discs acting as running signals, just for shunt moves. I'm surprised that the branch was as self-contained as it was. There's no running signals to get passenger trains to the branch from the main line, or vice versa. Compared to the main line part of the layout, shunt discs on the branch and its run-round are quite sparse. It's just a layout for a branch train shuttling to and from the bay platform.   

My first ever internet postings were on the RM Web site and they were about my “Lisburn North” layout. Although I received positive appraisal from viewers, the first version suffered from the fact it had to be operated and viewed from the front like an exhibition type layout. Access to the ‘hidden sidings’ required constant ducking under the front boards and this proved problematic.

A house move in February 2021 allowed a rebuild in a slightly bigger garage with operation and viewing from the centre, with a lifting section being incorporated to allow easy access to the centre. However by sticking with the “Lisburn North” concept, this resulted in only 35% of the whole oval being available for the scenic section.

I have therefore recently dismantled the last “Lisburn North” layout completely and made a fresh start (with rebuilt baseboards) on a new project. I gave up years ago on ‘terminus to fiddle sidings’ type layouts, as I prefer a ‘watching the trains go by’ type layout. Therefore it has to be something on the ex-GNR main line.

In my copy of Golden Years of the Great Northern: Part Two purchased 42 or so years ago, I had pencilled in over the track plan of Scarva station how it could be done in 16’ 00”. As I now I have 18’ 00” to play with I have revisited this idea. However under Rule One, this ‘Scarva’ is different to the original as in real time the Banbridge branch was closed in 1955 by the GNR(B). However in my scenario, although passenger services have been withdrawn, the branch is retained for goods traffic to TWO linen mills, as was the case (albeit only one) with the extended stub of the Derry Central line. Scarva station may also get a full sized Goods Shed if only because I have one!

This will allow for a ‘branch terminus’ alongside the Hidden Sidings with a station layout not dissimilar to Milford on the Armagh-Keady branch line, a long platform for the very occasional passenger special, with a loop to allow the shunting of mill wagons to an unseen destination.

The building of this new layout is underway with track laying in progress. While I had the track plan from the Arnold book as a guide, I recently posted an appeal for information about the original signalling at Scarva. I am very grateful to BSGSV of this parish for helping out with that one.

As it may be of interest to others as to the apparent paucity of signals in published photo’s, I attach an amended copy of the track plan from the Arnold book (with acknowledgement to Blackstaff Press) showing the signals, many of which were well away from the usual photographer’s position on the road bridge. The Advanced Starters were much further out than I have indicated.

12 hours ago, Broithe said:

Guy Gibson's dog's

For the American version of the 'Dambusrers' movie, they muted the 'N' word. In the scene with the dog outside the briefing room, the guard on the door is a very young Patrick McGoohan in his first ever (non-speaking and unaccredited) movie appearance...

My ex-father-in-law was a rear gunner on a Lancaster during the war. He was in the 'Pathfinder Squadron' based at RAF Scampton. He had some interesting stories about his service. One night they had dropped their incendiaries (markers) over the target and on the way back a German night fighter caught up with them. Old George let rip with his four Brownings and matey pulled back before coming in for another go. This toing and froing continued for about 20 minutes, until the Lanc reached the coast. As George let go his last rounds, the German dipped his wings as if in salute!

I also remember him telling me how in the dying hours of the war, Bomber Command suddenly switched from dropping bombs on Germany to dropping food supplies over Holland. He was understandably bitter like many other Bomber Command crew that they received no official recognition after the war, such as a campaign medal.

Also related info is that up until circa 1978 when a form of radar was installed to aid the gunner's aim, the Chieftain tank had a .50 Browning machine gun (the same that used in the Lancaster) fitted in the turret as a 'ranging device' for the main gun. I would get out more, but I have too many eggs to count...   

On 28/8/2022 at 1:15 PM, Broithe said:

At one time, if you'd requested "a couple of dozen eggs" in the RAF, this is what would arrive.

Of course those eggs are going into a Belfast war time product, a 'Short Stirling'... Often wondered why Avro chose the city name of 'Lancaster' for their four engined bomber, yet Shorts named their's after a city in Scotland? Of course there was another production named the 'Halifax'. Was that named after the Yorkshire city or as a gesture to a then prominent politician?

British Army main battle tanks for many years were always given names that began with the letter 'C'. Cromwell, Churchill, Centurion, Chieftain, Challenger, etc. Army logic.

Where the 'Brycleem Boys' choose their kite names defys any logic... Over to you Galtemore...

21 hours ago, Galteemore said:

If you insist….

On second thoughts, bugger the eggs - stay with the RAF stories!

Can we please get back to EGGS!

Right, let me throw my tuppence worth in on this...

When I was a wee lad we had 'Hallowen' in Ireland on the 31st October. We let off fireworks (until 1970 in the North when the security situation forced  ban), we dunked for apples and had sweets provided by our parents. We had apple pie with thrupenny and sixpence coins hidden in it. We did NOT go 'Trick or Treating'.

Meanwhile on the GB mainland they celebrated 'Guy Fawkes Night'on the 5th November, let off fireworks and did "Penny for the Guy" money collections. They did NOT do 'Trick or Treating'.

In circa 1978 along comes a fecking US movie 'Hallowen' and suddenly the 5th of November slides into the memory in GB and now the youth factor are all doing 'Hallowen'. F**k "Penny for the Guy". Let's now go 'Trick or Treating'. This is tantamount to demanding money (or good quality sweets) with menaces from some of the most vulnerable people in the district. EGGS are essential ammunition for this purpose. Having your front windows splattered with eggs may well be very upsetting for an elderly person, but it does not constitute 'Criminal Damage' in English law.

In the late 1980's the problem was escalating year on year. As a police officer, on 31st October, my colleagues and I would foot patrol and challenge all youths we met. "Have you got any eggs?" Reply - "No." "Good, because I 'm not going to formally search you, I will simply clap my hands on your jacket pockets. There, job done, Good night." I made no breach of the police codes in my action, but the individual soon left for home to clear the mess out of his jacket pockets!

In later years I secured a voluntary agreement from the local Retailers Association that they would not sell eggs on 30th/31st October to anyone under 16. Job done. LM     

On 31/7/2022 at 3:33 PM, jhb171achill said:

Last month I celebrated my 50th year of IRRS membership!

When did you join? You must have been only 7 years of age.

On 1/8/2022 at 8:04 PM, Patrick Davey said:

This gives the location of the signals:

On 1/8/2022 at 8:18 AM, LARNE CABIN said:

The photo on page 39 of R M Arnold's The Golden Years of The Great Northern Railway Part Two of SG2 16 hurrying past Scarva with a ballast train suggests that behind all the smoke from 16 there is the base of a signal post. This is confirmed in the film Off The Beaten Track - Scarva to Banbridge and Newcastle, (utube, at 4min 44secs approx), shows a Down Starter at the Norhern end of the Up Platform. Although the photo is very clear, there is no evidence of any other signals, apart from the vague suggestion of a Down Advanced Starter, on the Down Side a bit beyond the cabin.

Many thanks to you both, your input has been very helpful. LM

On 12/6/2022 at 7:21 PM, LARNE CABIN said:

Very little has happened at Larne Harbour Station since December last year. This is due to my wife's illness and the need for almost 24/7 care, and with all the chores to be done, shopping, cleaning, cooking etc., as well as looking after her, railway modelling is restricted to 10 minutes here and there at the kitchen table. But the Larne Harbour Station project continues, albeit at a very slow pace!

Hi Larne Cabin,

You and me appear to be in the same boat. I am attempting a rebuild layout based on Scarva, but finding time to do anything other looking after my wife (stroke victim) all day is difficult. Like you it means I manage only a few 10 minute segments in the garage. My thoughts are with you and you are not alone. LM

On 7/7/2022 at 10:30 AM, Galteemore said:

Lovely but don’t fancy regauging that to 36.75… was a tricky enough proposition in real life ! 

In respect of re-gauging, may I throw a spanner in the works as to the accuracy of the model. The move from 4' 8 1/2" to 5' 3" on the two locomotives in question was achieved by removing the driving wheels from their axles, REVERSING the driving wheels on each axle so that the flat front faced outwards and the "dish" profile faced inward. See several decent published photo's. Ergo, the model seen above is yet another repaint of a GB locomotive and not an accurate IRISH prototype! Off to bed now...  

On 18/7/2022 at 10:39 AM, Irishswissernie said:

8 June 1961 Banagher branch, Bord na Mona Xing.2 views of the Special at Banagher same day.

Hi Ernie,

This was where J. Edgington took the large group picture of the whole tour party. See the RPSI website for more.

4 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

Dundalk station VS 206 on a Dublin bound service. CA 1955-7

The first carriage is a 'C 2' All-First in "1953 Royal Train" livery, blue/cream sides, black ends.

On 5/7/2022 at 8:28 AM, Irishswissernie said:

Monaghan , 14 arriving on a goods ca 1955. I like the footbridge with the stone abutments and girder construction on Plantation Walk. It would make a good scenic break/exit on a layout.

Hi Ernie,

Is there a possibility this was taken in December 1960? The reason I ask is that if it was 1955, the AEC Railcar on the left of the picture would be in GNR Blue/Cream livery. This one appears to be in all over CIE green, it therefore being the final Railtour? Goods services continued for another few weeks after the date of the Railtour. 

On 12/6/2022 at 8:19 AM, Irishswissernie said:

The Turntable pit has an unusual wall! I wonder if the turntable had been  lengthened by a few feet at some time.

Hi Ernie,

Yes, I read somewhere that the Bundoran turntable was extended in 1934/35 to accommodate the then new Railcar 'C' which worked out from Enniskillen when first introduced. LM 

I drove around that south Connemara area in 1989 and was amazed at how much of the infrastructure of the Clifden branch had survived. Bridges, station buildings, etc.. No industrial pressure over 60 years helps!  

I am in the mind to model an adaptation of the layout at Scarva. However a study of all available pre-1962 (when the cabin was abolished) photographs gives little indication of where the signals were. One Camwell photo from 1949 (when the footbridge in the middle of the station was still in place) shows the double UP starter on the DOWN side just before the road bridge so favoured by most photographers.

Surely there must have been starters at the end of the northern end of the UP and Branch platform? Any advice gratefully received. .

On 13/5/2022 at 8:03 AM, StevieB said:

The UK version of the story about whether to keep diesel locos running or not revolves around how much power is taken from the battery to start the diesel engine. Apparently it would take many hours to recharge it.

I recall a story told to me around 1969 by someone "in the know", that the MPD sets stationed in Ballymena for the early morning Belfast runs were left idling overnight as a precaution against them not starting. I can state from experience in such matters, that starting a large diesel engine from cold requires a substantial amount of battery power.

On 13/5/2022 at 10:05 PM, Galteemore said:

Looks like you’re right on both Ernie. Looks like Derry city in backdrop of pic 1.

I think there is a mention in NCC Saga about the Derry (Waterside) turntable being moved to it's later position on the east side of the running line as the one seen in the photo was too small to accommodate a Mogul. 

I',m not sure engines were ever "allocated" to particular sheds in the manner of BR. For example, Irish locomotives never wore SHED PLATES in the manner of BR locomotives. Obviously GNR 'V' & 'VS' class locomotives were allocated to either Adelaide or Amiens Street following an overhaul and perhaps engines were for a time regarded as being Dublin or Belfast based. GNR 'S' class were allocated on a seemingly ad hoc basis to Dublin, Dundalk, Portadown or Belfast.

In respect of Adelaide, If one moves into the UTA era, ex-GNR 'VS', 'V', 'S' & S2', ''Q' & 'QL', 'P' & 'PP' 4-40's were "allocated" or "worked out of" Adelaide shed, as did the surviving 'T1' & 'T2' tanks. Likewise the four 'RT' tanks were always Adelaide engines. Any class of 0-6-0 (large and small) could be seen in the Belfast area and therefore notionally allocated to Adelaide.

Post 1958 NCC ''W' & 'WT' became common. At one point in 1964 with the run down of steam operations, Portadown overtook Adelaide as the principle steam base on the ex-GNR system. The last operational engines working out of Adelaide were 'WT' Jeeps. 

Perhaps someone with greater knowledge than me can expand on this subject.      

On 26/4/2022 at 10:57 PM, Colin R said:

but it is worth doing a catch up on all 3 series if you can.

The episode about the visiting Ukrainians was a sheer classic. "He's a Prod from East Belfast. He got on the wrong bus at Aldergrove and now he's stuck here in Derry surrounded by Fenians and Russians"  

As is Ian McElhinney as "Joe". Issues around trains has to be accepted in the way that most of the "parents" are in real life only ten years older than most of the "Children". LM

Had they gone to the real Derry station, the joke about being on the wrong platform would not have worked. Such is the way TV works. While they all boarded a CAF (delivered about 7 years after the supposed date of the comedy setting) at Whitehead, the remainder was clearly shot in a preserved 450 set. So some credit there. Equally the gag line about the nun and the schoolgirl overhearing the booking office clerk's telephone conversation would not have worked in a modern booking hall.

I love this programme and am amazed that my very English daughter-in-law absolutely loves it too. I will never look at a Kit Kat in the same light again!

That said, current series episodes 2 & 3 have not matched the sheer quality of episode 1. Liam Nesson was awesome. LM   

It has also been pointed out on another thread that another scam is an exaggerated price set on E-bay for an Irish railway item causing someone to contact the seller asking for a lower price, hence infecting their e-mail account. LM

16 hours ago, David Holman said:

Nothing is sacred these days

As for the above, bought a bottle of "Guinness Export" in Sainsburys last week. Got home and finally got my glasses on. "Brewed in Nigeria"!  

On 26/4/2022 at 7:46 AM, Irishswissernie said:

Last view is another on either the Kingscourt or Oldcastle branches June 1963. That dead end short siding reminds of somewhere (Dunboyne) on the Clonsilla to Navan section.

I don't think so Ernie. As far as I know ex-GNR 'U' class No. 197 never ventured towards Navan on an IRRS  railtour. May I suggest the correct date is Saturday 17th September 1960. The Journal entry recorded "Starting from Amiens Street the first objective was the Mountmellick branch. Then going into Killkenny to run around and turn, the Castlecommer and Deerpark Colliery branches were visited. Return to Dublin was via Killkenny and Carlow. Locomotive was No. 197." As to the location of the photo, perhaps someone with better knowledge of this general area may be able to help. Perhaps a station on the now closed Port Laoise-Killkenny section? I can say it is NOT Deerpark Siding? LM