josefstadt

....its a dismal Friday in Ireland - you can expect anything to happen!

On a dismal (or indeed any) Friday night there would be lots of passengers who would be 'elephants' on the last Luas, bus and DART followed by ! Of course those on the DART would be customers not passengers.

And never a rail car (i.e. characterless bus on rails) - in jest

Yes, but what about those lovely 1950s AEC and BUT railcars? Not to mention the earlier articulated GNR(I) railcars and even the Drumm battery railcars - electrification without the knitting!

The Waterford and Tramore was famous for only having doors on one side of its coaches as the platforms at Waterford and Tramore were both on the one side of the line. .......... Placing the driving controls in a cubicle on the RHS rather than in a full width cab would have followed in W&T tradition and importantly allowed passengers to board through the vestibule doors at either end without major structural alterations to the aluminium body framing.

Of course! I'd forgotten about the doors on one side only tradition of the W&T. That probably explains it. Thanks John.

Some of the 1904-1908 main line brake standards built in the early 50s were built with driving cabs for use on the AEC railcar worked Westland Row-Galway/Westport "Cu na Mara" express service to allow the train to split at Athlone. The use of the driving trailers was short lived as the train grew from a 4 to a 6 car set and Westport eventually got its own fast direct services.

I remember these in service on the Dublin suburban during the early 70s, operating as normal stock with the driving controls disconnected. Great fun for the schoolkids of the time to play with the controls

I think I may have travelled on one of these during the 60s. I remember the train splitting and being able to see forward.

As far as I know, passengers couldn't see forward through the driving trailer's cab window. I'd suggest that you were probably travelling in the leading compartment of the rear AEC railcar in a two-unit set. When the train split in Athlone Midland you would have got the forward view through the driver's cab.

One strange feature is that the driving cab is on the 'wrong' side of the coach. Facing the direction of travel, the driving position is normally on the left-hand side, but in the case of 1407 it is on the right-hand side. This is all the more strange given that the platforms at both Waterford and Tramore were on the left-hand side for trains proceding towards Waterford, so the driver would have been sitting on the side away from the platforms.

Albert Quay in GSR or early CIE days would be a Corker for a layout

It was the way of telling the signalman that it was oil fired and didn't have to stop to bail out anywhere, unlike coal fired locos at that time.

 

Quality of coal were very bad for a few years post War (or 'Emergency' if you will) Locos that weren't converted to oil firing burnt any old rubbish that was going, leading to lengthy delays in cleaning out fires and re-making them.

That brings to mind the story of an incident involving the Dublin to Cork night mail during the ‘Emergency’. The driver had to stop the train at one of the then many small wayside halts to ‘bail out’ the fire (i.e. to remove the clinker which had formed in the firebox due to the poor quality of the coal). To explain the delay to head office in Dublin, the local station master sent a telegram to the Running Superintendant in Inchicore stating in effect that the ‘Driver of night mail bailed out here last night’. Unfortunately this communication was intercepted by military intelligence and considerable explanation was required before the authorities were satisfied of the innocuous nature of the message!

The two newly painted Cravens look marvelous. As do the interior views. Hardly seems the same train that I travelled on during the IRRS outing to Limerick recently!

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that's a stunning livery....more fun for our respraying talents!

Lovely job - much better than the blue on the other Cravens. The inclusion of the RPSI crest is a nice touch. And the EVN has been correctly applied on the solebar, with the 4-digit running number it its usual positions under the windows

The two repainted Cravens (see post #10 above) have been turned out in GNR(I) blue & cream livery.

Not sure where the impression that it's running empty a couple of times from. It's a single ecs movement from Wexford to Waterford.

 

As regards opening this move to enthusiasts, 1) it's unlikely approval would be granted given that it's a move over an engineers siding and 2) if I were the operator I don't I'd be opening up carriages, that I'd invested considerable time and money in bringing to a higher standard than normal, to the general public.

As ei6jf says (1) this is an ecs move over an engineer's siding and as such only the IÉ train crew will be permitted on board. Even the RPSI personnel travelling with the train will not be allowed to travel on this move; and (2) there is now way that the general public / wider enthusiast fraternity will be allowed travel in the train during the tour given the time and effort spent getting it ready for the tour participants each day.

I believe the plan is for 071 but a 201 may stand in depending on loco availability

It is indeed to be diesel hauled - no steam. The tour is aimed at mainstream tourists, rather than at railway enthusiasts. The hot news is that Railtours / RPSI have received clearance for the empty stock to use the Rosslare Strand to Waterford line, instead of having to run via Dublin. No word yet on times, but get the cameras ready, especially all of you in the south east, I'll expect loads of photos on the site.

I understand that two of the, presumably, orange & black Cravens have been repainted into a different livery and that the whole train is receiving a deep clean. The train is due to be moved from Inchicore to Connolly on Sunday evening (the 28th) at 20:10. The tour will depart Connolly at 11:05 on the Monday. As noted in Snapper's post above it will travel to Wexford, from where the participants will be bussed to Waterford. The train will be worked empty from Wexford back to Dublin and down to Waterford, in preparation for Tuesday's programme

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A fascinating photo of North Wall Quay - a great find and thanks for posting it. The photographer (do we know who it was?) appears to have been standing on the lifting bridge over the Royal Canal, beside the old Midland goods yard (now the site of the Convention Centre). I never realised that there were two lines of sidings on the roadway running parallel to the river and that they were used for loading / unloading wagons. I had always assumed that the rail wagons went into the sheds for these purposes. Notice also the wagon standing on Guild Street, which would have been the City of Dublin Steam Packet Company's line linking the MGWR's Sheriff St yard, on the western side of the canal, to the riverside.

Certainly looking forward to seeing this layout develop.

You'd want to have a word with the forklift driver in the PW depot. He's put the container on the wagon upside down!

The ultimate Canon vs Nikon shootout

 

Hi Folks

Could anybody please advise me are these coaches Laminates or Bredins or another?

From the right: a 21xx Composite (not a 100% sure of the number but looks like it could 2132?), a 24xx Buffet Car, another (I think) Composite and then three Cravens. The first three coaches are Bredin derived stock dating from the 1950s/early 60s.

Scannal!

RTE1 19:30, 22 September 2014

Nicky Kelly

Padraig O'Driscoll examines the case of Nicky Kelly, who with Osgur Breatnach and Brian McNally was jailed for the 1976 Sallins Mail train robbery - one of the biggest and most dramatic thefts ever committed. With the only evidence against the trio being statements made during interrogation in garda custody, his co-accused managed to restore their freedom within 18 months. However, after a period on the run, Kelly spent four years in prison, and did not receive a Presidential pardon until 16 years after the robbery, with no explanation given as to how such a miscarriage of justice could ever have happened.

Duration: 30mins

So for a layout circa 1980 ( +- 5 years), what would have been most likely behind non-TL parkroyals/laminates

The period you are looking at, mid-1970s to mid-1980s, was one of transition - the Mk IId AC stock and the BR vans had arrived in the early 1970s, the programme of converting orthodox (non-AC) stock to TL was progressing steadily and the 4-wheel and 6-wheel vans were being phased out.

By November 1978 all the 4-wheel luggage vans had gone as had most of the 4-wheel SHVs - only 11 remaining in traffic. These, along with the four 6-wheel SHVs were by that time mainly employed in the Dublin suburban area. Also by this time all the Cravens, the main line Park Royals, the last series of Laminates (1497-1503), some catering vehicles and about 50% of the 19xx Brake Standard types had been converted to TL (excluding a number of vehicles which had already been withdrawn). The ‘Dutch’ vans had all been converted to TL by November 1978, while the 32xx GSVs/Brake Std GSVs were introduced between 1977 and 1980. On the other hand, the suburban Park Royals and the bulk of the Laminates (1429-96) retained their batteries and axle-driven dynamos. The bogie luggage vans (2548-91) also retained their batteries and axle-driven dynamos. By the end of 1980 all the 4-wheel vans were gone, while a start had been made on the conversion of further Park Royals and Laminates to TL. And, of course, by the end of the period you are looking at the Mk III stock had arrived leading to a further culling of earlier stock.

So, I suggest that for Limerick Junction throughout the period in question, mid-1970s to mid-1980s, main line services would have generally been formed by either AC stock or TL fitted Cravens/Park Royals/Laminates operating with bogie GSVs or Brake Standard GSVs. Friday only services would have been composed of a variety of TL and non-TL stock carefully marshalled so that the TL vehicles were all able to be powered by the GSV. Pre-1977 there would have been 4-wheel or 6-wheel SHVs on the Limerick-Limerick Jct and Limerick-Waterford trains during the winter season. After 1977 the 4-wheel/6-wheel vans would, as BSGSV has shown, have been replaced by 32xx type GSVs, possibly operating with non-TL stock. At a later date the 32xx vans would themselves have been replaced by Dutch vans or BR vans as these were displaced from other duties.

A trawl through the IRRS journal might throw up images of trains in the LJ area during the period you are interested in, or I'm sure that there would be people there who might be able to give you details of train formations.

So I'm now wondering if the BR vans were just steam only to start with. Another belief about to go?

The BR vans were delivered to CIÉ as GSV's. As you say they were equipped with a single 2000 lb/hour Spanner boiler and a diesel generator set provided the power for the running of the boiler. The earlier heating luggage vans, including the Dutch vans, were Steam vans only and had no electric generating capacity. Power for the operation of the boilers in these vans was provided by batteries charged by axle-driven dynamos.

The BR vans were delivered in January 1972 and in April of that year, during ESB power cuts, they proved to be a great asset to the company when they were placed at strategic locations around the Dublin area to generate electric current which was used to keep signalling systems and track circuiting operating.

Nice pics Noel. Loco could do with a bit of weathering though, doesn't look realistic! Send her to Newry!

its a wonder that 461 isnt pulling her as she is in limerick too!

According to The Wanderer: 'Sadly due to operational issues between Limerick City of Culture 2014, Iarnrod Eireann & the RPSI. 461 wasn't used to haul the Grandmother Giant into Limerick'. I wonder what happened.

This is great info guys. Any idea which corridor compartment coaches might have been used on the Dublin Amiens Street to Galway line in the 1962-1970 era? Bredins, PR, or Laminates?

Noel, all side-corridor compartment coaches were Bredins. The Park Royals, Laminates, Cravens etc were all centre-corridor open coaches. The only compartment stock to enter service after the introduction of the Park Royals was a series of 8 composites built in 1961/62 which had three 6-seat first class compartments and a 28-seat open saloon for standard class passengers. After that time the only compartment coaches which entered traffic were a number of rebuilt coaches which had originally been compartment stock - for example the 3201-12 series Brake Standard GSVs, introduced 1977, which were rebuilds from compartment stock in the 1339-50 and 1351-55 series.

If only cameras were as commonplace back then....

Oh, I've wished that so many times. I went on a two week rambler all around the CIÉ system back in 1971, but as a secondary school student could only afford the ticket and two rolls of film (24 exp) for the trip. Such a shame - so much to photograph but so little film. Now, if I'd had a digital camera .............

.................. or if only ttc0169 was a little bit older...

I don't know if ttc will thank you for that , but maybe he knows someone who could enlighten us!