Mayner

Hi Patrick

The GSWR birdcage brake 3rd really came up well, I especially like your pattern making with the springs and interior "module".

I still have not gotten round to finishing the interiors and lettering on my pair of GSWR 6wheel coaches.

It may be possible to have the springs cast in brass from your patterns. 

Some precious metal fabricators/casters use  a cold casting technique in the 1st stage of in the lost wax casting technique https://morrisandwatson.com/

I used Morris & Watson an Auckland firm to produce brass castings from my own patterns, there are likely to be similar businesses in the jewelery manufacturing areas of the UK.

I spent a very enjoyable day driving from Stirling to Dublin (via Larne!) in September 1993  visiting Whitehead, Dundalk, Dunleer and Drogheda on the way.

Freight traffic was a lot heavier on the Great Northern Line then two South bound Liners were recessed o in the up yard at Dundalk Junction presumably awaiting Customs clearance, I later saw the afternoon Dundalk-North Wall Liner passing Drogheda behind a pair of 121s presumably with cigarettes and beer from Dundalk! Only had a SLR with limited capability at the time so picture quality was not great

A lot has changed in the last 25-6 years!

Power at rail and maximum tractive effort (TE) are separate functions.

Tractive effort is about pulling power and was measured in lbs.  Horse power about how fast you can accelerate a train to the required line speed

The 2,790 hp power at rail for the 201 Class is the power available for traction after taking out the power absorbed by the auxiliaries (compressor, cooling fan, generator, traction motors and mechanical losses. Republic Loco quotes 80% efficiency for locos with AC traction 70% for older DC units

 TE for diesels and steam is calculated differently.

Diesel: 

The relationship between power and tractive effort was expressed by Hay (1978) as

{\displaystyle TE={\frac {375*P*e}{V}}} ^[11]

where

• TE is tractive effort, in pounds-force (lbf)
• P is the power in horsepower (hp)
• e is the efficiency, with a suggested value of 0.82 to account for losses between the motor and the rail, as well as power diverted to auxiliary systems such as lighting
• V is the speed in miles per hour (mph)

Steam its a function of boiler pressure, wheel diameter and cylinder bore D and stroke! 

Tractive effort (TE) (or "tractive force") is in principal determined by boiler pressure, cylinder proportions, and size of driving wheels: 

TE = D² * S * const * p / d 

with D = cylinder diameter, S = piston stroke, p = boiler pressure, and d = driving wheel diameter. ("const" being a heuristic constant in the range 0.75 ... 0.85, depending on speed.) 

http://www.republiclocomotive.com/locomotive-power-calculations.html

The 6 wheelers unlikely to be at Grand Canal Dock, more likely to be Albert Quay looking across the yard towards the Hibernia Road bridge. 

I don't think the operating people at Westland Row would have tolerated a rake of redundant coaches cluttering up their carriage sidings and relief road between a very busy cramped station and the loco depot.

Grand Canal Street Shed and Dock Mills would have obstructed the view of the gasworks from the carriage sidings, 

Tim Cramer in his "Irish Miscellany" series in Model Railway magazine in the late 70s spoke about "a little group of them spending their final years in Rocksavage Yard before being confined to the bonfires of progress:

The coaches including a relatively modern (1910) MGWR 5 compartment lavatory 3rd together with older GSWR stock. Photo possibly taken across the running roads towards the goods yard between the end of the platform and signal cabin.

Albert Quay was retained as a goods yard served by a connection from the Cork City Railway into the late 1970s interestingly while CIE lifted the running roads into the former passenger station the points were left in place.

  Albert Quay was retained as a goods yard served by a connection from the Cork City Railway into the late 1970s interestingly while CIE lifted the running roads into the former passenger station the points were left in place.

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway Stations A/Albert Quay/IrishRailwayStations.html#AlbertQuay_20110505_003_CC_JA.jpg

22 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

 

The Swiss not being in the EEC and therefore not subject to their decisions ,didn't have to decimate their Sugar Beet industry some 14 years ago and the industry still produces around a million tons of beets the majority of which is railed to the plants for processing.

 

Funnily enough EU don't seem to have been impressed with Greencore decision to close the plant.

 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/sugar-factory-closure-needless-1.867073

Potentially looks like the closure was driven more by a windfall of EU compensation and potential profit from selling the site at the height of the property boom, than a EU poilicy decision.

On 3/15/2019 at 10:46 AM, WaYSidE said:

how did they get the beet out? no way could any forklift get into the corners of the wagons. i must ask the locals

 

Sugar beet was literally washed out of trucks and railway wagons using a water canon at the factories.

May be some clips of beet being unloaded in the RTE archive, used to be on the 9 0 Clock news nearly every year in the 70s & 80s.

The water canon/jets were mounted on a steel structure in the unloading area, at Mallow in its final years trucks were unloaded during the day and trains at night

Just received the February 2019 Journal.

Front piece of a a pair of J15s on a Punchestown on an 8 bogie race special at Naas in 1956. 

Interesting articles on a diverse range of subjects including Waterford as a Railway Center and a photo feature on Private Sidings on Irish Railways.

Plenty of photos of modelling interest and potential mini layout ideas in both the Waterford article and photo feature.

Including:

Photo from the railside of Bellferry at Frank Cassin Wharf terminal.

B189 shunting a mixed train of 40' Freightliner containers & H vans at the Fry Cadbury siding near Rathmore.

Traffic seems to have been heavy before the siding closed with the plant was served by two trip workings daily from Mallow.

B160 shunting a modern looking bitumen tank wagon at Abbey Siding Cahir during the late 1970s. The wagon appears to be based on an ESSO Class A tank wagon imported from the UK in the late 1960s rather than an earlier CIE or Charles Roberts built tar tank wagon.

B169 and train collecting an empty tar tank wagon from the Kerry County Council Lixnaw siding in 1963.  B163 appears to have run forward from Lixnaw with her train and is preparing to haul the tank wagon back to the station, before re-marshalling the train and continuing on her journey

28 minutes ago, Edo said:

 

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/aai-files/assets/libraries/kilkenny-county-library/reading-room/physical-landscape/castlecomer-train-station.jpg

 

the above is a picture of a train standing at Castlecomer Station - a line that was purely built to service a coal mine. If there was ever a place you were going to see Coal Wagons on the Irish network..............as you can see its a typical GW&SR/GSR/50/60's CIE scene.....JHB is spot on........ CIE didn't build purpose built Coal wagons - either for their own fuel needs or to transport for commercial interests.....whatever could be purposed for the task was used..............

I think people underestimate how utterly broke this country was for the first 40 years of its existence after independence - we were a bit like an Eastern Atlantic version of Cuba - we embarked on a dose of self sufficiency or as close as for a couple of decades after independence - this manifested itself in a credit drought and the re-use, re-purpose and repair of capital equipment on Irish Railways well beyond expected life spans....and also getting the absolute maximum return out of every piece of equipment.......................another age completely compared to now.

As JHB said GSR & CIE used the standard Irish open wagon a 1916 design for general goods and coal traffic. The Irish standard wagons were generally similar in design to wagons used in the UK.

 

 

 

 

 

Nice photo most likely in GSWR days almost looks like a fine scale model, possibly a "colourised" black and white photo. Station looks like a weatherboard version of Rosslare Strand and other stations on the Rosslare Route.

I don't buy the Cuban analogy, the GSR & CIE continued to invest it physical plant and freight rolling stock up to date between the 1920s & early 1980s. 

Most of IEs current freight rolling stock is at least 30-40 years old, while the standard open wagons in the Castlecomer photo are of a new design at the time 4-5 years old.

8 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Well, a van like that is absolutely appropriate for such a scenario; indeed, it's likely its the same one that was on the opening train in 1899!

 

Entirely appropriate for the 1st and possibly last trains on the Achill Branch or the afternoon "Perishable" from Rosses Point to Sligo.

The Alphagraphix kit is a model of MGWR Mortuary Vans 42 & 58.

The GSR re-numbered the vans 56M & 58M and ran them as fish vans.

56m (van in photo?) appears to have ended her days most likely as a luggage(pram?) van on the Waterford & Tramore.

(Carriage Stock of the MGWR) IRRS paper Padraig O'Cuimin 1972?

Common on the majority of  CIE 1950s 10' wheel base built freight stock, possibly more noticeable on wagons in the newer light grey compared to the old dark grey paint finished used up to the mid-late 1950s

Most likely track dirt (mainly steel dust and mud) thrown up by the wheels in  damp/wet weather.

6 hours ago, banntry said:

We only has my DMU's available to run as Mick was away last week, with more stock it would

have looked even better!.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Probably pretty much what it looked like in its last years before the departure of the afternoon passenger and the arrival of the C Class on the goods from Drimoleague.

Ballasting the track has made a real difference,  reducing the narrow gauge appearance and  capturing that light flatbottom look so noticeable in photos of the West Cork stations and yards

I read some interesting behind the scenes material in a NZ railway magazine article when the local station was often a town or districts link with the outside world.

The station's goods clerk would phone local businesses and customers to advise that their wagon had arrived and was ready for unloading or their consignment ready for collection from the good shed or out for delivery with road  services.

The traditional common-carrier railway provided a much more personalised level of service than today's logistic and railfreight businesses.

Some American short line and Regional railroads still provide a similar level of services with local sales reps and offices rather than shippers having to go through an anonymous Call Centre 3000 miles from the customers business to order a freight car set out or pick up.

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

No - the border didn't exist until after all the railways were built. Having said that, the introduction of the border in 1922 would have killed it stone dead, had it been built.

Its new cross-border status would have stopped it becoming part of the GSR, though, unless the actual bit that went across the new border had already been closed after only a few years (like the Welsh Highland). This would, of course, have been entirely possible!

It could got very interesting if the Bawnboy Road-Maguires Bridge section of the Ulster and Connaught had been built with a Baronial Guarantee similar to the C&L and CVR. Under the guarantee railway shareholders were guaranteed a 5% return on capital in perpetuity secured by the Government & ratepayers in the area served by the railway.

In the Free State the government basically bought out the Baronial Shareholding held by the GSR, in Northern Ireland CVR shareholders continued to receive their 5% dividend until Stormont bought out their shareholding allowing the line to close in 1941. 

Its just about possible that the section of line linking the C&L & CVR survived partition with its capital guaranteed by the Free State and Northern Ireland Governments, like the SLNCR Stormont would have had to compensate the Ulster & Connaght for loss of income arising from partition.

34 minutes ago, Railer said:

Part of the Boliden contract when the mine was first planned was that the ore was to be shipped by rail for export. It was a bilateral contract agreement between Boliden and the government at the time. I have no idea if there is a get out clause as part of that.

 

Using rail would fit in with Boliden's Sustainability Commitments & to keep within its existing carbon limits under the EU Emission Trading Scheme, and likely to continue until the existing wagons and loading/unloading infrastructure require replacement.

On 3/27/2019 at 6:35 AM, jhb171achill said:

I had considered (and may do again) a line which resulted from the Parsonstown & Portumna bridge line having been extended to Loughrea. 

Once the GSR takes over, it becomes quite logically a single route, with services operating from Attymon or Galway - Ballybrophy.

Hey presto: Midland and Southern stock on the same line.

In terms of simplicity, scenic interest and varieties of rolling stock Carrignagat Junction-Sligo takes some beating, double track main line, Ballysodare Station compact layout with an interesting private siding (branch line) to Pollexfen's mill, WLWR(GSWR),MGWR & SLNCR trains, add in McAndrew's Sligo & Arigna if it got built operated with cast-offs locos and stock like the Athenry & Tuam & Ennis and Athenry.

Interesting rock cuttings, nearby railway viaduct and interesting mountain backdrop.

Nothing to report in terms of layout or rolling stock building, though the baseboard framing should be well seasoned before I start to lay the road bed and tracklaying. I have most of the softwood framing in stock for over 10 years and haven't got around to laying track

Seriously nice. Popeye!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1 hour ago, dave182 said:

Thanks Mogul and Skinner 75. I wonder if the ore is shipped out from Drogheda using road vehicles, successfully, will it put this rail flow at risk long term? 

I suspect not, as access the Drogheda Port is challenging. The rail line down to the old cement works could be reinstated I suppose, making for an interesting short trip working: Navan to Drogheda Port 3 times daily!

It looks like Boliden are planning to extend the life of the mine beyond 2026. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tara-digs-deeper-underground-to-secure-the-future-of-europes-biggest-zinc-mine-jztbzf6g5.

It will be interesting if Boliden invests in a fleet of new wagons or manages to keep the existing fleet in service up to 2036.

There seems to be scope for quite interesting operation whether you operate end to end or eventually manage to build a continuous run though 3 road staging/fiddle yard could be quite limiting.

The line seems to have been at its busiest between the mid-late 50s & early 70s when goods/freight traffic over the Limerick-Athenry line was heavier than the western end of the Dublin-Galway line.

2-3 scheduled goods trains + overloads, seasonal beet and cattle specials. It might be worth trying JMRI Operations http://jmri.org/help/en/package/jmri/jmrit/operations/Operations.shtml for wagon routing.

Passenger wise there was a loco hauled Limerick-Galway mail train operated daily up to 1963 (A Class hauled in later years), 3 car AEC railcar sets on the Limerick-Sligo passenger trains often with cattle wagons and vans as tail traffic, small GMs & a couple of coaches after the Sligo trains were diverted to run to & from Ballina.

Are you looking at modelling the embankment and  underbridge at the Limerick end of the station? it adds to the visual interest.

The live steam loco has been challenging both in learning to drive because of the grades on my line and finding track defects. 278 turned out to be a good buy, although the loco was second hand she never seems to have been steamed running in nicely capable of hauling 6 cars and a caboose.

278 with slightly scorched smokebox door

278 is quite controllable by small scale live steam standards and not too hot to handle once you keep your fingers well away from the cylinders, smokebox and hot bits inside the cab.

The biggest challenge like Waterford's Jumbo is to avoid blowing off and wasting steam while switching.

On the trip that inspired the change to 1:20.3 the real 278 undergoing cosmetic restoration in a National Park Compound at Cimarron Colorado.

The C16s were basically a narrow gauge equivalent of the J15, but largely replaced by larger 2-8-0 and 2-8-2 locos. The DRGW  retained a few for lines with light axle loading, several sold to other railroads and industrial lines that fed the DRGW & RGS

The two surviving DRGW C16s  268 and 278 were preserved locally when the DRGW abandoned its narrow gauge lines in the Gunnison area in the mid 1950s in 268 in a Gunnison and 278 on a trestle in the Black Canyon.

278 has since returned to her perch on the trestle, unfortunately we did not have time to check out 268 at the Gunnison Pioneer Museum

https://www.nps.gov/cure/learn/news/pr18-22.htm

1 hour ago, Broithe said:

Here we are.

 

Belmullet  and P J McAndrew's "All Red Route" is mentioned in P J Flannigan's book on the Cavan & Leitrim. The Belmullet scheme seems to have been the final 5'3" gauge development of the Ulster & Connaught Light Railway saga possibly linking Greenore with Belmullet as part of a transatlantic mail and passenger route from the United Kingdom to Canada. 

Mc Andrew and his backers offered to buy the C&L in 1913 and convert it to standard gauge and was "still hovering around" up to 1930-31. A bit like today's Public Private Finance Initiatives the Belmullet scheme would have been dependent on the Government financing the scheme and underwriting any operating losses. It would have ticked the box in terms of relieving poverty (by economic development and like China's Belt and Roads policy improving communication links within the British Empire, but became pretty much a moot point in the changing world after 1913.

Still Mc Andrew's proposal just about opens up the idea of DNGR transatlantic Boat Trains working through from Greenore to Belmullet,  the LNWR had something of a habit of throwing good money after bad on its Irish adventure, the DNGR working the line would have fitted in with the GNR & MGWR agreement to keep out of each others territory and more importantly avoid loosing lots and lots of money!

The LNWR might have re-gauged some Jumbos to work the passenger trains and DX for goods traffic.

30 minutes ago, Phil3150 said:

Hi Leslie

6T made a couple of trips up to the Arigna mines at Ally Pally today and a couple of photos are attached - old mobile phone I'm afraid so not great quality.

 

 

The thicker wire running centrally between the frames controls the horizonal movement of the truck, the cranked wire against the frame is the suspension wire. It all seems to work ok so far!

Phil

Snap 

Modelling the C&L I guess we were likely to end up with different models of the same locomotives!

I would be interested in an ex-CBPR tank, though its likely to stick on the curve from the station to the roadside section on my layout-------------just like the real thing!

After a long hot Summer it looks like Autumn has arrived with leaves falling, (probably more from drought than shorter days) the end of daylight saving is two weeks away and the beginning of this years Autumn stock rush on the Jackson County Narrow gauge with every loco in steam and stock car out on the line.

463 hauls in the empties on the 1st special of the season with an empty boxcar and a laden tank car to make up a full load for the K27.  A cut of cars for the Arboles Turn is stage in the yard in the background.

463 pulls into the yard while 348 waits to work the Arboles Turn and 464 waits on shed to work a Westbound freight. The turntable is a piece of decking timber pivoted on a coach screw and plate washer packers and really-really works.

I re-ballasted the main line and through tracks in this area over the Christmas.

348 takes water before leaving on the Arboles Turn a locoal working. The DRGW used small 2-8-0s on branch lines and lines with restricted axle loading concentrating its narrow gauge 2-8-2s on steeply graded lines with heavy traffic.

348 arrives at Arboles before switching the yard. I am hoping to tidy up the area on the right with better screening between the outdoor work area and railway.  Town is named after some trees planted 2-3 years ago.

Upon arriving 348 set back with her train dropping the caboose on the other side of the bridge so the conductor could get some sleep/do the paperwork while the rest of the crew (2 brakemen, engineer & stoker) switched the train.

The loco ran round the train via the siding to place the tank car on a dead end spur. I used JMRI Panel-Pro Operations Programme as a car sorting and dispatching programme. 348s cars came in on an earlier train behind 464 which included cars for Jackson City, Arboles and Utah Junction.

348 has completed her switching at Arboles , picked up her caboose and is ready to depart for her destination with a flat car, train manifest on the benchwork in the background.. The DRGW used box cars for metal ore trains on the narrow gauge (including gold-silver-zinc and radio active ores) so they can be used to serve many industries.

348 has dropped off he load and ready to depart her destination with her caboose, perhaps returning in a few days to collect her traffic.

Departure time at Jackson City 463 wait waits with the 1st laden stock special of the season, 464 waits with a manifest freight.

463 bites the dust having split the points at Utah Junction not an uncommon occurrence on the full size Rio Grande Southern.

Playing trains live steam Accucraft C16 passing Jackson City

1 hour ago, Colin R said:

Hi John

Thanks for the kits they arrived today, nothing extra to pay this time , out of interest what size motor did you design this around, I plan to get them and gear box from Branchlines who sell a lot of motors and boxes.

I am hoping to make a start later in the year once the Donegal stock has been built and the Ten (Yes 10) IOMR 2-4-0T's have made some progress, I have got enough kits to build about 20 2-4-0T if I want to.

I guess it was being in the right place at the right time when a lot of these kits became available in one batch, this was about 5 or 6 years ago now.

The biggest trouble for me is I have more than enough kits to last me for the rest of my life, but If i didn't get the kits now and if I just so happen, to find the time to build them at a later date the likely hood is they won't be in production 

Colin

That was quick. I posted your kits on Saturday.

The Mashima 10X20 motors is probably the best option for a small 2-4-0 or 0-6-0.

I prefer the High Level "Road Runner +" & "Load Hauler +" gearboxes driving on the rear axle leaving the cab interior free.

I used a Branchlines "Slimline" box in a J15 but it may encroach more into the cab

Vertical motor in firebox High Level Road Runner + gearbox (excess motor shaft requires cutting off)

10X20 Mashima motor with flywheel horizontal in boiler firebox High Level Road Runner + gearbox

The lighting system depended on the railway. 

The MGWR seems to have used oil lighting on 6w stock with top hat lamps, some coaches appear to have had ventilators others not.

Attock 4 compt Lav 2nd

1908 4 Compt 3rd with brake Compt.

WLWR had introduced electric carriage lighting before the GSWR takeover but may have been restricted to new bogie stock.

WLWR 4-4-0 at Junction oil lit stock. Photographer unknown.

GSWR 6 wheelers had gas lighting with large torpedo ventilators and converted WLWR stock to gas lighting following 1900 amalgamation.

Most of the Mayo video seems to be earlier than the 1950s possibly late 1930s. Style of clothing, MGWR style station nameboards at Claremorris, Manulla and Westport. Enamel advertisment signage on Claremorris good shed. Cast number plate rather than large numerals on 650 Class arriving at Westport, 1st coach in train possibly in early 1930s livery with cream upper panels,  glimpse of an Achill bogie at Manulla Junction most were out of service by late 1940s, GSWR coaches in GSR livery in colour clip.