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Mayner last won the day on February 19

Mayner had the most liked content!

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About Mayner

  • Rank
    Senior Member


  • Biography
    Born Dublin, lived most of my life in Dublin and the UK. One time builder, moved to New Zealand several years ago. One time WHHR Volunteer Portmadoc, track ganger, diesel loco driver and bulldozer driver, plant operator, now an Armchair


  • Location
    Hamilton, New Zealand


  • Interests
    My family, solving problems, anything to do with railways, travel, blues, rock, jazz, stirring thing

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  1. Mayner

    Nostalgia Gold

    I think the C Class in the double headed goods, may have been worked to Dungarvan in order to shunt the yard and return with a goods train to Waterford rather than as a result of a failure. Goods traffic was heaviest between Waterford and Dungarvan with an afternoon Waterford-Dungarvan-Waterford goods in addition to the daily Waterford-Mallow goods trains. The train may have been double headed with a driver in each loco or been hauled dead in the train, the Sulzers & C Class could not operate in multiple. The train 32 wagons including vans appears heavy for a single C Class on a steeply graded road and is substantially longer than other goods trains in the video and photos of goods trains. Its possible that the C Class is being worked to Dungarvan on a Waterford-Mallow goods rather than by working a separate Waterford-Dungarvan goods either as a result of a delay to the through goods or it was possible to work the Dungarvan traffic on the earlier train. The luggage van is likely to be carrying parcel traffic marshaled beside the guards van for convenience in dropping off and picking up traffic and minimise damage during shunting The 1960 working timetable had a daily 07:00 Mallow-Waterford goods with a corresponding 09:40 Waterford-Mallow goods both trains were scheduled to cross at Cappaquin with 8-9 hr running time over the 76 miles of the line. 12:10 Waterford-Dungarvan Goods with 3 hr running time and 5:00 pm Dungarvan-Waterford with 2:25 scheduled running time. 12:10 The Waterford-Dungarvan had a scheduled 57 minute stop at Kilmacthomas to shunt the yard and cross the Mallow-Waterford Goods. Goods traffic appears to have been very light between Dungarvan & Fermoy with short goods trains in photos and videos of the line in its final years.
  2. Mayner

    Nostalgia Gold

    I have always been fascinated by the Waterford-Mallow line since I first saw the section of line along the coast near Ballyvoyle and the causeway level crossing in Dungarvan in 1965-66 during a family road trip from Dublin to Cork via Waterford. I didn't see any trains on the Dungarvan line, but had the bonus of seeing (to me) a long goods train heading north along Wexford quay and staying in a guest house on Glanmire Road across from the City Railway. The passenger service was typically sparse with a single scheduled return passenger working between Cork & Waterford apparently worked by a Waterford based crew and single train set. The Rosslare Express operated 3 days weekly T,Th,S with a morning departure from Rosslare and an evening departure from Cork. Goods services were a little more intensive with one goods train in each direction daily between Mallow & Waterford scheduled to cross at Cappoquin and a daily return goods train between Waterford & Dungarvan. Goods traffic was sparse on the central section of the line between Dungarvan and Fermoy and heaviest between over the difficult heavily graded section between Dungarvan & Waterford. The Waterford-Mallow line closed to passenger and good services on 27th March 1967, so unlikely to be running in connection with the 4th June match between Cork & Waterford, its possible that the passenger train at 2:30 may be the Rosslare Express carrying peak summer holiday traffic or strengthened for another purpose. The Rosslare Express was mainly worked by Woolwich Moguls with the small wheeled Coey D4 on the Waterford passenger train and J15 on the goods. The B111 class took over passenger and goods working following dieselisation up to the arrival of the B121 Class. The Sulzers were well thought of because of the power, reliability and good traction and braking with their A1A A1A wheel arrangement over a challening route. The C Class on the double headed goods may have been for shunting at Dungarvan before a Dungarvan-Waterford goods with the B111 continuing on the Mallow.
  3. The new timetable was adversely affected as a result of a work to rule at Inchacore Works which reduced locomotive availability and the 1st Oil Crisis. The timetable appears to have been based on single 1325 Hp 001 Class hauling the majority of Intercity trains with the 1650hp uprated locos working the Dublin-Tralee trains. The majority of additional services were cancelled, trains decelerated in the following timetable, with most of the radial routes loosing one return working daily, many of the additional services were not reinstated until the late 1990s. One effect of the cutbacks was longer heavier trains on the main routes, CIE introduced double heading with pairs of small Bo-Bos to speed up running from 75/76 on-wards before the introduction of the 071 Class. CIE shifted to Soviet diesel imported by Tedcastles in the mid 70s, possibly an attempt to secure supply and price. This followed Ireland opening diplomatic relations with the Soviet Union in 1973, not sure if the Soviets received payment in kind with Irish meat and dairy products, like Eammon Kellys story of the EEC selling the "Butter Mountain" to the Russians "to oil the axles of their carts" The Midland Railway in the UK operated on the light frequent high standard of comfort model up to its amalgamation into the LMS, the Midland was one of the first British railways to implement a centralised traffic train control system and was surrounded by competitors so it had to provide a superior service to stay in business, the NCC seems to have operated on a similar principal with a service of fast comfortable trains it lost money but the LMS had deep pockets to support its Irish subsidary.
  4. Its possible that the Papal Legates train was double headed to put on a show of high speed non-stop running, rather than as break down insurance. If the lead loco failed, the train would most likely had to run at reduced speed until the dead loco was removed. A single A Class had a lower power output than a single 800 Class which usually hauled visiting Churchmen there is a photo of a line up of all 3 800 Class specially prepared to haul the Archbishop of Bostons train(s?) at Cork in 1949. 800 & 801 are all decked out in flags and insignia with the cleaners putting the final touches to 802 It looks suspiciously that the two A Class were recently overhauled and specially selected for an important run, rather than th3e best available locos in the running shed. Dan Renehan had a good account of Crossley operation in one of his IRRS papers. CIE allocated recently overhauled/repaired locos to main line passenger duties, re allocating locos onto less demanding passenger and freight duties by monitoring engine oil condition for signs of contamination arising from fuel contamination or water leakage as faults developed.
  5. Nice clear photos Kevin a very useful resource! although 1465 is a Laminate rather than a pre-laminate coach The photos of 1361 & 1465 nicely illustrate the visual differences between traditional timber frame and Laminate coach construction. I hope you follow up with the side corridor stock & the buffet cars
  6. The P.W. on the West Cork was never designed for speed, the trains on the West Cork were slow even by Irish standards In the 1960 WTT speed on the Baltimore-Skibbereen section was limited to 30mph with a maximum of 40mph between Skibbereen & Albert Quay. The AEC railcars were allowed a maximum of 50mph on the straights as there was no super-elevation on the curves.
  7. Cork was a very compact city with urban development mainly restricted to the river valley, the West Cork entered the city on a sinuous route through a largely rural area from the South West. Even today Waterfall approx 6 miles from Albert Quay appears to be in a completely rural area. Up to the 1980s commuter/suburban passenger services in the Republic were largely restricted to Cork-Cobh, Dublin-Bray-Greystones, Dublin-Howth-Drogheda lines. There was very little urban development to the West of Dublin before the 1970s with even less along the railway lines! The Muskerry and Passage lines appear to have been much more suburban in nature, both lost traffic to the trams and no doubt the early motor cars. There are stories of children commuting to school on the Muskerry
  8. Going back to the original thread passenger services appear to be pretty much secondary to goods on the West Cork and most other Irish secondary main lines. The passenger service actually got worse on the Clonakilty Branch following the introduction of the C Class diesels the morning mixed train from Clonakilty Junction to Clonakilty became a goods which worked the Timoleague & Courtmacsharry line as required. C Class locomotive working appears to have been quite complicated as the locos working the main line goods trains were used to swap power with the branch locos. In a way the West Cork would be excellent for a system layout with timetable working like Drew Donaldson's Dublin-Cork main line, Sam Carse's Donegal or Castlerackrent modelling a number of main line stations and branch terminals would be very interesting even with the 1940s & 50s sparse train services.
  9. I had a very brief involvement in the Rena Salvage mainly around public safety on the beaches where containers were washed ashore,. Some of the containers were reduced to twisted pieces of metal https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/rena-containers-wash-ashore
  10. Pretty close to the mark, interesting to see traditional timber frame coaches being assembled long after other railway had changed to all metal construction. http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000304519 Plasticard is an excellent medium for scratchbuilding carriages that would be uneconomic to produce in kit or rtr form. David Jenkinson built over 200 plasticard coaches from 4 to 10mm scale and some pretty impressive layouts. Jenkinson found that he could scratchbuild a coach from plasticard quicker than he could assemble a kit. Carriage Modelling made easy is a good introduction to his methods and includes some impressive model coaches. https://www.amazon.com/Carriage-Modelling-Made-David-Jenkinson/dp/1874103321
  11. Interesting the photo indicates that vans were built without a horizontal cover slip at cantrail level between the sides and roof, unlike the heating van. The nails securing the roof cladding to the sides is visible in the Thurles photo. The coverslips appeared to have been added at a later date which makes it easier for someone wanting to model these coaches. I would imaging the CIE would have used the standard 61'6" triangulated underframe & standard roof jigs for the 1959 vans, the body appears to be of traditional timber frame construction with aluminium cladding, rather than the Laminated panels used in the Laminate coaches and 4w heating & luggage vans. Inchacore reverted to timber frame construction for its final coaches a batch of 7 2nd Class Coaches in 1962 & 2 1st Class coaches in 1964, these appear to have the similar end profile to the vans and pre-Park Royal stock.
  12. Official records are not always 100% accurate and without a surviving van its impossible to check if the physical dimensions. Differences often exist between the original concept design and the end result in engineering projects. I have an "official" drawings of the AEC railcars and a "Beet Double" which are substantially different to ther actual as-built vehicles. I am inclined to believe that CIE used the original 1935 body design with vertical sides above waist level on a triangulated underframe for the 1959 vans. The duckets and outward sliding doors are the giveaway that the vans were built to a narrower width, van doors were recessed into the body and guards lookout duckets were not fitted to wider coaches with a teardrop end profile like the Laminate Coaches and heating vans as they would have fouled the loading gauge.
  13. The 10' width for the vans in the Doyle & Hirsch book may be a typo, the vans appear to be more upright in profile than the tear drop profile of the 10' wide coaching stock. The 1935 Bredin van appears to have had a maximum width of 9' with a slight tumblehome above the solebars, Bredin increased the maximum width to 9'6" with the 1937 coaching stock with a more tear drop profile seem in the photo of 2560. I would recommend obtaining a set of 2549-2558 drawing or diagrams either from the Chief Mechanical Engineers Office at Inchacore Works or through the IRRS if IE have disposed of the drawings. A set of sides or a van based on the Bredin or CIE Composite conversions may be a better option as I have a CIE drawing of a Composite to BSSGV conversion.
  14. The photo is dated May 63 before the UTA ended goods traffic, Beauparc seems to have recently closed as a block post signal arms removed but signal post and pointwork still in place. https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/5736789174/in/album-72157626756740602/ There are a number of photos of ex-NCC vans on the GNR system both before and following the UTA takeover. Presumably NCC stock would have been mainly used for traffic from the ex NCC lines onto the GNR and returned empty before the takeover while GNR & CIE wagons were more likely to have been used for interchange traffic between the GNR & CIE. Interestingly there is a photo a SLNCR Enniskillen-Sligo goods mainly made up of GNR & CIE vans, with a cut of relatively new looking CIE H vans marshaled behind the GNR stock towards the rear of the train. Its likely that several of the GNR vans were being used to transport bagged cement from Drogheda to Sligo (the GNR & SLNCR competed with CIE for Dublin-Sligo freight traffic & Drogheda-Sligo bagged cement) the H vans are likely to be returning to the CIE system over the SLNCR rather than via Dublin to maximise CIEs share of the line haul revenue particularly if the wagons were consigned to a destination in the South West. The NCC vans make a nice contrast to CIE & GNR stock and relatively simple to build from plasticard. "Nelson" produced a nice model of an NCC van complete with outside axleguards on a Dapol wagon chassis https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/2382-nelsons-workbench/page/4/
  15. Special credit to JHB for the GSR paint sample & Linkup Paints https://www.linkup.co.nz/ for their colour matching service. Unfortunately I am unable to export the laquer or enamel by airmail. Mike: I will send you my e-mail address.
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