Mayner

2 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

Tea room completed. Pity it’s closed, looks like it would have been a nice spot for a coffee and an iced diamond….

Almost looks like it was shut down by the Food Standards people or District Health Board.

6 hours ago, Tullygrainey said:

Certainly FS, here we are, fresh out of the box

 

So far, I’m impressed with the build quality and finish. For a handmade model, it’s pretty remarkable. My example ran smoothly out of the box and once I’d taken a bit more care seating it properly on the track, it negotiated all the short radius points on Loughan Quay with a minimum of fuss. 

I think I’m going to have to build a layout for it. Or get Patrick Davey to invent a scenario which explains a J15 in BCDR territory. I have every confidence in him

Alan

Apparently York Road 'borrowed' 186 for works/station pilot duties after she first 'went North" during the 1960s. Loco crews who were apparently impressed by the J15s power and sure-footedness and wanted to hold on to 186 as a shunting loco.

 Although born and bred in Dublin never actually visited Clogherhead, nearest were childhood trips by car to the seaside at Gormanstown and a couple of visits to Butlins with friends in my early teens including one by train returning non-stop Mosney-Connolly in an ex-GNR K15 coach, first journey on a fast train being used to AEC railcars on Connolly-Bray subbies.

Its possible Clogherhead might have become a GNR equivalent of the BCDR Ardglass a Light Railway branchline serving a quiet seaside terminus and fishing port possibly with a couple of morning and evening peak-hour Dublin-Drogheda services running through to Clogherhead for season-ticket holders and day-trippers, only light axle locos like U & UG and similar small locos allowed over the line because of its light railway heritage. Possibly some of the entrepreneurs/political figures behind Ireland's drive for self-sufficiency during the 1930 (ESB,CSE,BNM etc) though an Irish equivalent of Butlins or Pontins may not be a bad idea. 

Fair play Alan for forming the skirts where the chimney/dome sit on the smokebox/boiler, its something I haven't been able to get my head around physically using a lathe or in CAD work for 3D printing.

You appear to be able to build a loco from scratch than I can assemble a kit.

Interestingly I originally though the BCDR 0-6-4T was based on the "Large Leitrim Tank" design and did not realise it was a completely different design until I noticed the longer distance between the driving and trailing axle on your model than on the Leitrim (& South Australian) locos and realised the BCDR loco was not a "Long Boiler' type with the firebox placed behind the rear driving axle. 

1 hour ago, Colin R said:

I have been talking to Nev about this and he is also willing to produce one off kits for people if they have the etches ready to go, I don't know just how far he has got but he was looking to produce a new Cavan and Leitrim 4 wheel van body in resin, the trouble is the last time I looked at this I think there was a possible 70 odd variations on a theme which would make every C&L van unique if you were to model them.

Just to give you guys a taste here are just some of the basic's

Two types of body Low roof or High roof

Three basic doors : paneled, half paneled and no panels.

Vents of 6, 3, 1 or no vents at all on the sides left and right hand sides of each door could also be different 

Vents 6, 3, 1 or none on the ends but each end could be different    

Finally there where at least three different wheel bases due to rebuilding over time

One other major item to recall was that the cattle vans, they had half opening doors that the bottom half would form the ramp into the van so again this was different to either the normal low or high vans, but it was also possible that either the high or low roof vans could have also been rebuilt for cattle traffic at some point as well.

So you can see why it would be difficult to produce just one C&L van kit with the amount of knowledge that is known about these vans.

I would suggest that by the later life of the railway I doubt if two vans were turned out the same from the works after a rebuild.  

 

The IRRS Flickr site is a great resource for modelling the C&L, seemingly every enthusiast/photographer visited the line and recorded every loco and item of rolling stock in great detail.

3D printing is probably the best option for producing wagons and possibly coaches, white metal or resin casting from metal or plasticard patterns is not really a viable option in this day and age. Etched metal or scratchbuilding is likely to remain the only viable option for producing locos, putting a C&L 4-4-0T, Passage 2-4-2T or Kerry 2-6-0T/2-6-2T on a TT gauge chassis is unlikely to work.

The main drawback with the Backwoods kits is that the models are based on 30 year old technology, and chassis/gearboxes would require upgrading to allow the locos to operate reliably and Pete incorporated a number of significant errors/oddities in his C&L kits.

While the C&L 4-4-0T builds into a nice model capable of running reliably, the large square coaling flap in the rear of the cab is completely incorrect, as the locos had a pair of relatively tall rectangular doors. Similarily the 4w Passenger Van is a hybrid that incorporates a mixture of original and simplified panelling and can be assembled with the original Birdcage look out, the Convertible Wagon is based on a wagon that had original doors with the original outside framing on one side and a half-door arrangement on the opposite side with one leaf with the original outside framing and the other replaced with vertical planking,  I ended up buying 4 C&L vans to build 2 with doors in original condition and replaced the half/paneled doors on the remaining two with vertical planked plasticard.

Quality and durability with 3D printed models is pretty much a case of selecting a printer (printing bureau or a physical printer) capable of printing small scale models in suitable materials to fine tolerances, something home desktop and some commercial printers will struggle to achieve.

35 minutes ago, Irishswissernie said:

Another JG Dewing slide of the 17 March 1961 IRRS Special near Bandon.

Clonmel with another Special recorded as 17 March 1967 on the slide.

 

 

Train consist includes what looks like an ex-GSWR 12w "Rosslare Route" Dining Car 353 of 1906 and recently introduced Craven stock. 353 appears to have been withdrawn in 1968.

Possibly an IRRS specials in connection with the closure of the Mallow-Waterford line and the diversion of the Boat Trains to run via-Limerick Junction and the introduction of mechanical staff exchange (snatchers) on the Waterford West-Limerick Junction section of the W&L line. 

Peco HOm (1:87-12mm) track is probably the best option for OOn3.

TT (1:120) is  a standard gauge system and looks like standard as opposed to narrow gauge with smaller sleepers spaced closer together.

For many years Parkside-Dundas now Peco have produced high quality plastic injection moulded wagons for Tralee & Dingle 3' gauge wagons including a dropside open with West Clare style raised ends, https://www.hamodels.net/tralee-dingle-railway-covered-goods-van.html

Its difficult to see a manufacturer producing a rtr model for an Irish Narrow gauge loco, its possible someone may produce a rtr Isle of Man loco with potential crossover to the Ballymena and Larne or Castlederg and Victoria Bridge. 

10 hours ago, Northroader said:

Just harking back to pipe round the front of the smoke box on MGWR engines, (sorry I should have spotted this post at the time) I’m fairly certain it’s the train pipe for the vacuum brake, and it seems to be peculiar to the Midland engines, and Mr. Atock. There’s a swivel joint low down on the RHS, and the whole arched bit could swing forward. There’s a flexible hose dangling down on the LHS to connect with the bag on the rolling stock when the engines going backwards, though you can never find a photo showing this happening. Once the old boy retired, it looks like there was a move to replace this arrangement with the conventional swan neck in front of the buffer beam. Just guessing he must have felt that would get in the way of opening the smoke box door and shovelling ash out?

Train pipe makes sense, the conventional swan neck on the front buffer beam only seems to have appeared on new locos and re-builds of older locos after Atocks retirement, the Midland persisted in mounting the headlamps on the buffer beam between the buffers up to the Amalgamation the Cattle Engines the final Midland locos were delivered with this arrangement during the early 1920s.

Haven't seen photos of E Class or other Midland Engines working trains tender first, though there is a story of the crew getting thoroughly socked while working a train hauled by a loco with a 'flyaway' cab tender first in heavy rain on the Killeshandra Branch

3 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

Eoin, totally agree with that idea but I am going down the armour plate route as these run on a club layout and the members are not always gentle in the handling department. The plastic frames will become cosmetic.

   Mick

MJT & Wizard (Comet) produce reasonably priced rigid bogie frames. https://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2556.php may have something suitable for the Silver Fox AEC railcar

The Description on electronic customs declarations is usually automatically generated by the TARIC number entered on the postal service/couriers on-line portal.

Its possible someone in Rails inputted an incorrect TARIC number in preparing the order or  because of the limitations of the portal.

The 'my-DHL" portal does not accept the TARIC code and "Electric Trains' description, so my DHL Express Shipments are described in the declaration as "Tricycles, scooters, pedal cars..............." as the description also included "reduced-size (scale) models', though we havent shipped any tricycles or scooters yet any!

A bit like New Year Resolutions I made a decision several years ago not to start any new modelling projects without first completing the existing ones, but I am not very good at sticking to my own decisions!

Last week was something of a milestone with the arrival of decals from SSM to complete some coaching stock in GSR livery and some Bullied 4w Vans.

I started to assemble a pair of ex-GSWR 6W coaches from SSM kits in May 2018 and although the coaches have been substantially complete for over 4 years only managed to get around to sorting out decals of the 6 wheelers and ex-Midland Non-Passenger stock assembled 8-10 years ago late last year.

I went for the GSR era mainly for a change from CIE green and less run-down condition of the locos and stock and greater variety compared to the CIE era.

2-3 6w coaches and a trail of vans was a fairly common consist on passenger trains in the pre-emergency/CIE era.

The MGWR 'Vans' were test builds from 2013-5

ex-GSWR composite 329 Originally a 1st, 329 was re-classified as a 1st-2nd Composite before the Amalgamation and possibly re-classified as a 1st-3rd Composite after the GSR abolished 2nd Class accommodation during the late 1920s.

The coach is modelled in the GSR/LMS maroon introduced during the mid 1930s using Duplicolour "Ford Red|" from a rattle can. Although I am reasonably happy with the small yellow running numbers and GSR crest I am not 100% happy with the Class numbers and may replace with HMRS Pressfix transfers. I have a sheet somewhere.

I am quite pleased with the lettering and numerals for the Non-Passenger coaching stock, not sure of the colour used for the Horse Box .

I bought a further 4 ex-GSWR 6w coaches (of different types) to build two passenger/mixed trains, I am tempted to assemble at least a couple in the GSWR/early GSR Purple Lake as the decal sheet included gold GSWR lettering and numerals. 

Its possible coaches overhauled/painted during the lead up to the Amalgamation retained GSWR lettering/numerals into the 1930s possibly into the Emergency. 

The next stage (once I decide on the class Nos) is to seal the paintwork with a clear laquer, before fixing final detail including door handles and grabs, glazing and fit the interiors, before returning to the display case for another year or two before fitting couplers.

The advice on the Chadwick video particularly around ventilation and respiratory protection is relevant, I used to use airbrushes (Badger 150 and Paasche TS-A3+compressor) but use automotive rattle-cans for spray painting locos and stock, more consistent results and eliminates the requirement to mix paint to the correct consistency for spraying and the time consuming and messy cleaning process.

Colours are custom mixed at a local industrial/automotive paint supplier colour matched with existing models, paint samples or BS or RAL numbers, I very seldom buy 'model railway' or model paints!

According to Bill McDonnell (Area running foreman Cork) in " a Decade of Steam" 466,469 and 470 were transferred to Bray & Mullingar when he 1st worked on the "Bandon", 467 was at the time 1939 the only member of the class fitted with the R Class superheated boiler and was 'not very popular" and had problems with cracked frames, all the superheated locos later had their frames strengthened, 465 went to Inchacore  for repairs in late 1940-early 41 and never returned. "470 was the only "other" member of the class not fitted with a superheated boiler", though 463 was fitted with one of the original non-superheated boiler during her final shopping before the end of steam on the CBSC

Nothing mentioned about livery though possible one or more of the "Bray" loco was re-painted in "Dublin Suburban & Express Passenger" lined green.

Tim Cramer published drawings and photos of the Bandon Tanks and GSWR 90 in the Model Railway Constructor during the late 60s/70s, his 4mm mainly West Cork locos including a Bandon Tank, No 90 and a Midland Small Tank were featured in a Railway Modeller Article in 1971-72 Tim Published a series of "Irish Miscellany" articles and drawings in Model Railways Magazine during the late 70s including the Kerry & Achill Bogies, three types of MGWR 6 wheelers, the 800 Class & B141, a humble Open Wagon, GSWR/CIE Brake Van and Waterfall Station and an O Gauge 60 Class or D14 4-4-0 in lined CIE green in a British Railway Modelling "Irish Modelling Special" in the early 2000s

In his "Bandon Tank" article Tim wrote of his first cab ride as a 12 year old (on a Bandon Tank) at Glanmire Road collecting eggs from a driver friend of his fathers and later being allowed to turn the locos when the crew were having a cup of tea. 

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

The thing that does puzzle little oul me is this; one of life's great dilemmas....... how come every single model of a Bandon Tank, anywhere, is always black, when only one* of 'em was, and only for a couple of years max? Just asking for a friend......................................! 

CBSCR had them green, GSR & CIE plain grey, except one (or two) based in Dublin in CIE green........

(*  464)

Many years ago Tim Cramer scratchbuilt a 4mm 21mm Gauge model of a Bandon Tank in CIE green, model was sold to Brian Fennell an MRSI member and used on the Loughrea Layout during the 90s early 200s after Tim moved up to 7mm.

Tim also scratchbuilt built a model of No90 in as-preserved (1960s) lined green livery real watch-making job 

5 hours ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

UK only on an Irish forum? 

A considerable proportion of Irish Outline modellers live outside of Ireland or the EU.

Sales of my wagons and kits tend to break down  50% Ireland, 35%UK, 15% USA

Irish Outline modellers in main line UK tend to be serious modellers who model Irish railways for the challenge modelling something that different to the home scene.

Apart from the outside Walschaerts valve gear a 500 Class would be a relatively simple scratchbuilding project. Plenty of room for a large can motor and gearbox simple geometric shapes no pesky curving running boards and crankpin splashers that make 19th Century locos so challenging to build.

Building a rake of matching GSWR/GSR 1920s side corridor coaches used on trains like the "American Mails" and "Tourist Train" in GSR days would be more challenging, though SSM produce very nice kits of the GSR Bredin coaches used on the "Steel Train" during the 1930, strictly speaking the forthcoming Park Royals are too modern 500 and 501 were withdrawn in 1955, 502 was withdrawn in 1957.   

There was a Model Railway Journal Article featuring the build of a 3mm GNR U Class 4-4-0 for Ballyconnell Road using a Worsley Works set of scratchbuilders parts. The loco was constructed using similar techniques to those used by Tony Mills when he pioneered 4mm on 21mm gauge to fine scale standards during the 1960s with the motor mounted in the tender with the loco driven by a lay shaft drive to the driven axle (Tony Mills developed his own 4mm fine scale standards independently of the Model Railway Study Group who developed P4 standard during the same era--a good example of convergent thinking. 

I cannot find the Journal with the article on the U Class, but I think the builder used "kitchen table" techniques to build the loco without the aid of a lathe or milling machine to produce the crank axle or valve gear parts.

The main issue with modelling Irish 5'3" gauge in 3mm Scale on OO gauge track is that you are modelling the track to a larger scale than the rest of the model, ending up with an effect not unlike the Triang Super-4 track of the 1960s with a heavier railprofile, larger sleepers with a wider sleeper spacing than with 12mm gauge track.

The other complication is that the new generation of British Outline TT models & track systems are to 1:120 Scale as used on the Continent as opposed to 3mm Scale. 5'3" scales out at 13.33mm in 1:120 scale creating another non-standard track gauge for Irish Broad Gauge modellers.

Ballyconnell Road (15.75mm gauge) is worth while checking out for what can be achieved in 3mm, though some of the technology used in building the locomotives is a close to miniature engineering-watchmaking than conventional railway modelling.

Examples of coaches marshalled at the rear of passenger/mixed trains

There are some very interesting photos in the Waterford Museum collection of mixed trains crossing the Dungarvan causeway all with the coaches marshalled at the rear of the train behind the wagons

https://www.waterfordmuseum.ie/exhibit/web/DisplayImage/K04VqVTJREsmM/1/Dungarvan_To_Waterford_Train.html

UK1556 GSWR 4-4-0 4 Covered wagons, 1--6wCoach, 1 Bogie Coach, 6w Full Brake

EK196 possibly a stock special. WDLR 0-4-2 ? approx. 15 convertible wagons with several 6w coaches coupled at the rear.

EK10 WDLR 0-4-2?  Convertible wagons and what appears to be a mixture of 4 & 6w coaches and a carriage truck coupled at the rear.

Its possible the latter two photos were taken before the GSWR takeover of the Waterford-Dungarvan-Lismore line as part of the Rosslare route in the early 1900s, but the practice of marshalling coaches behind the wagons seems to have persisted into GSWR days. 

Piped braked Convertible Wagons.

I have been unable to obtain specific information on MGWR wagons fitted with Vac brakes its possible that some were fitted or piped for use in passenger or mail trains. In 1893 the MGWR had 30 Fish Vans, 24 Carriage Trucks & 1 Mortuary Van piped only out of a total stock of 382 items of coaching stock.

I mislaid the section of the Padraig O'Cuimin MGWR Wagon Stock paper relevant to Convertible & Cattle Wagons. The 10 Butter Wagons introduced in 1900-1 were "piped" for running with passenger trains.

None of the 10T Covered Goods Wagons introduced after 1915 are listed as "piped" or fitted with Vac Brakes  

MGWR Fish Van Livery

MGWR Fish Vans were painted brown "Initials and number disposed either side of the double door on the second plank down from the ventilation louvres" "On the bottom plank centred under the above mentioned lettering, was in italic letters "To run with passenger trains (Under MGWR, and "To carry five tons" under the number. This inscription was also carried by carriage trucks" Padraig O'Cuimin MGWR Carriage Stock 2 IRRS Journal No56 Oct 1971.

  A Fish Van/Meat Box with this form of lettering is just about visible behind 8 St Patrick in 

https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/IRISH-RAILWAYS/MIDLAND-GREAT-WESTERN-RAILWAY/i-KD7xbhM/A

15 hours ago, David Holman said:

Many thanks, both of you. 

However, as a further question - in steam days, on mixed trains, presumably any unfitted stock had to be put behind the coaches, with a brake van bringing up the rear and if unfitted wagons were in front of the passenger coach, then customers were not (officially) allowed?

 Also, could a mixed train do without a brake van if all wagons were fitted and provided there was a guard's compartment somewhere?

Theoretically a mixed train with all vehicles fitted is classed as a Passenger rather than a Mixed Train, there was some discussion on RM Web on whether the Bala-Blaenau Ffestiniog branch train that ran with a single Presflo attached (no brake van)  between Bala and Trawsfynydd was classed as a passenger or a mixed.

What happened in practice depended a lot on local 'custom and practice" outside the sight of authority at Kingsbridge let alone the Railway Inspectorate, in effect the rules meant little on short country branch-lines including those not too far from Head Office 

There is a 1939 photo of a Mixed train apparently waiting to depart Mountmellick for the main line at Portlaoise with a pair of unfitted wagons coupled between the loco and the two 6w coaches, the Mountmellick Branch was short and relatively flat.

There is a similar GSR photo of a Mixed train on the longer more steeply graded Fermoy-Mitchellstown Branch with what appears to be an unfitted GSWR convertible wagons sandwitched between a 6w full brake coupled to the loco and the remainder of the train consist a 6w composite and 6w Brake with birdcage lookout, presumably the Guard travelled in the brake at the rear of the train.

 From photos GSR/CIE appeared more observant about marshalling unfitted wagons behind passenger stock on short branch lines on other sections usually with the unfitted wagons marshalled between the passenger coaches and the 6W passenger brake at the rear of the train, from photos marshalling a single unfitted wagon behind the passenger brake at the rear of the train was fairly common, though I have a photo of an early 60s Sligo-Mullingar Night mail with what appear to be 4 unfitted H Vans marshalled at the rear of the train behind the passenger rated stock no brake van!

To add another twist "traditional" wagons such as H & Pal Vans ran with their vacuum brake gear isolated during the final years of loose coupled operation. A lot of fitted wagons stored awaiting scrapping at Mullingar in the early 80s were neatly stenciled "Vac brake isolated", the neat stencil lettering indicates that the vac brakes were isolated as wagons went through in-service repairs at Limerick of Inchacore,  rather than in preparation for a final movement to Mullingar for scrapping.

16 hours ago, MD220 said:

This photo shows cars on a goods train at Claremorris. Not sure of the year...40s or 50s maybe?

Photo credit: Rob Cross photography. 

Photo taken before the station layout was re-modelled in the early 50s when the locomotive shed on the left was demolished, the shed road extended to connect with the Athenry line as the new Platform 3. The light grey buildings in the left distance are pre-cast concrete loco crew facilities installed after Claremorris became the rail head for Knock Pilgrimage traffic

I have completed the final revisions to the artwork for the conversion kit and will be placing an order with the suppliers during the next 2-3 weeks currently I have confirmed orders for 4 frets, if anyone else is interested in placing an order please p.m or reply to this thread.

21 hours ago, Broithe said:

Complete with an advert for "Crossley's gas & oil engines", facing the bottom of the stairs at this end of the bridge.

Woodenbridge Junction was one of the most attractive stations on the system.

The add was for Crossley stationary engines often used in farms and workshops which had an excellent reputation.

The Crosley engines used in the A and C Class appears to have been an attempt to develop a lightweight 2 stroke engine to give AEI and edge over English Electric and Brush in a similar manner to the use of the lightweight 2 stroke 567 engine gave General Motors an edge over American loco builders that used heavier 4 stroke engines in their locos such as Alco and Baldwin.

Western Australia appeared to have overcome the worst of the reliability problems with its Metrovick locos which used the same engine as the CIE A Class. The Australian Metrovicks lasted in service on Perth Suburban trains with their original engines until the lines were electrified during the mid-80s