BSGSV

On 1/24/2019 at 9:31 PM, Mayner said:

These may have been the first modern Irish private owner wagons an some may have ran in ESSO livery when 1st introduced in the late 1960s.

A Paddy O'Brien photo is his album on the IRRS site shows 987 and 988 at Sligo in March 1974, with a large "ESSO" oval plate on the right hand tank side, silver/grey barrel and what seems like red solebars. 988 has J hangers too.

On 8/22/2020 at 11:08 PM, LARNE CABIN said:

The extension under the steps (not sure if this was a WC or a coal store) has been attached to the base and the steps attached to this. 

It's the entrance to the locking room.

On 8/12/2020 at 7:16 PM, flange lubricator said:

YES , some were  repainted in grey  .(IRRS journal no 36 Vol 7 Feb 1965 noted B135 being repainted in Grey ) the red buffer may have been an addition to B123 and B127 cant confirm this .

 

 

B123 and B127 apparently had the red bufferbeams added by Grand Canal Street in 1961 and 1962 for Wexford Opera trains.

On 7/6/2020 at 11:25 PM, flange lubricator said:

I think all of the 121 class had the modified smaller window except 125 . 

Just saw a photo of 125 which also had the small front window.

23 hours ago, DiveController said:

Any representative photo of the side boxes? What were they for?

The boxes contained brake valves certainly, maybe CAWS/Radio equipment too - my memory is vague on the latter. Size on both sides varied between periods - original, when fitted for multi, air brakes, push pull.

On 7/7/2020 at 3:55 PM, flange lubricator said:

I think DiveController is on the money with regard to the fitting of CAWS in the  mid 1980’s as this would coincide with this modification, I think the large and small windows have been followed by Paddy Murphy in his 121 models 

I had a look through some of my photos, and CAWS was fitted while the larger middle window was still there. The smaller window seems to be more late-80's and, aside from 126, the photos I found so far all have the IR points logo and white stripes. 126 had a small window by Auguest 1988 and was still in Supertrain livery. Aside from it, I have seen no photos where the grills on the solebar co-exist with the small middle window. I have no proof, but the small window may co-incide with mods for working Mk.3 push-pulls? One of the side boxes, beside the cabs, also seems to have got taller about the same time.

23 hours ago, Irishswissernie said:

One other point is that the signal at the far left isn't missing its signal arm, it was situated beyond the footbridge and the arm is hidden by the bridge side footpath fence.

I have to say sorry to you too. I'm afraid the comment re the missing "3" and signal arm was intended to be jokey, but clearly didn't work.

On 7/15/2020 at 11:33 AM, Galteemore said:

In fairness I did wonder how serious a post it was.....having spent more time than I care to think of studying photographs of the class for my build of 42 — yet noticing errors on its completion- my humour antennae in this area are probably a bit blunted!

The large plate patches are common across the class for some reason - probably added when the waisted smokeboxes were replaced, and the numberplates removed.

Oh goodness, no! I meant no slight on your work and I'm very sorry if that's how it appeared.

19 hours ago, Galteemore said:

The 3 on the loco is painted on steel plate (welded over the hole where the original GSWR cast plate was) so not really a temptation for the light fingered.  A quick glance at post 1950 pics shows that the yellow numbers were often hard to make out. A photo of 33 by Colin Boocock at Rocksavage - c1956 -shows her quite shiny, and numbers clearly visible. 

 

My original comment was somewhat tongue in cheek, but still, only one digit readable. Aside from the plate you mention, the bottom of the tank also looks like it has been patched too.

JHB's comments on the West Cork track suggest the seeds of closure were sown a long time before it happened. 

11 hours ago, Mayner said:

The Minister is probably correct with a placeholder livery, it does not quite match any of the standard GM American or Export colour schemes.

The single cab may have been to keep costs down and speed delivery using standard jigs and parts while GM worked on developing the double cabbed B141 Class which were delivered approx 2 years later.

CIE engaged Scandinavian (Swedish?) consultants to come up with a new corporate image for its road and rail services in the early 60s.

The consultants apparently recommended paint buses and passenger trains in the same black and tan scheme, but the powers that be in the passenger road section had other ideas with Dublin City Services, Provincial, CIE Tours each adapting their own distinctive liveries.

I think the golden brown/black/white livery dates from mid-1961, while the CIE "corporate image" based on the new "broken wheel" emblem and the colours white, light grey, dark grey, golden brown and black dates from late-1963.

On 3/14/2020 at 5:02 PM, jhb171achill said:

Fairly new “laminates” in original green livery.

There appears to be nameplates on the carriages, suggesting it is one of the two Cork named trains, which may also be why the carriages are so tidy.

On 7/13/2020 at 12:54 PM, jhb171achill said:

Acetylene lighting thingy, I believe 

I would have thought oil gas, but I can't see a reservoir under the solebar, but it is dark. 

Some thief seems to have been at work too. A "3" is missing from the loco and the left most signal appears to have no arm.

Seems a surprising amount of weeds about too, for 1953. 

Refilling lamps would depend on the type of burner, some did last a week, especially in more recent times. Earlier, the Lampman's task would be a daily one or every few days.

The rear facing white lamp is for the signalman to be able to check the lamp is still burning at night, and as the back blinder (as seen on the Rathdrum signals) co-acted with the arm, it also showed the whether the arm was off or on.

Many signals latterly were converted to electric bulbs, as can be seen in the Cork view. 

13 hours ago, flange lubricator said:

No this was an earlier mod carried out to all the 121's except 125 . the rear cab windows being covered over came much later and was only carried out to a few locos .

 

Thanks to you and Dive Controller for the information. I suspect if 125 didn't get changed, it was possibly a result of body overhauls in the 90's.

On 7/3/2020 at 11:20 PM, jhb171achill said:

I hadn't noticed that smaller window before. I think they were all initially with three windows same size.

Looks like a 141 centre window on its side.

Are there photos of any with the narrow centre window that aren't one of the refurbished examples (123, 124, 131, 134)? 

1 hour ago, Railer said:

So basically, just those 4 got the upgrade 645 and rest kept the 567 for their working lives. I mainly wondering what 124 and 134 ended up with then they were withdrawn. As of no I'm think the 567 and it's what I'm ordering for my MM locos.

124 and 134 both have 567 engine blocks originally on 141's.

16 hours ago, spudfan said:

PS I never noticed the filler spout just before the high up hand rail before.

Sand box filler

18 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

 

Hi BSGSV, I don't suppose Carse and Gray noted the individual vehicles in each of the Mk2 rakes in their survey?

 

I'm afraid the article does not include the specific vehicles involved.

The modern carriage is CIE built with Commonwealth bogies, a compo by the looks of it.

When Morton became General Manager of the GSR in 1932, he was succeeded as CME by Arthur Harty. Apart from the early Drumm cars, no coaching stock appeared until 1935, however 32 bogie carriages were then produced within the next three years. These coaches showed some change from what had gone before, and while Harty has been criticised for his locomotive designs, the coaches produced under his tenure as CME were certainly a step forward in passenger amenity. The coaches would not have been much out of place on the LMS at the time, which was probably producing the best general service stock of the period, in these islands.  The coaches were easily recognisable in having flush steel sides and metal skinned roof, although they still retained the somewhat old-fashioned rod and turnbuckle underframe trussing. The policy of having individual external doors to each compartment was abandoned, and access to compartments was now from the corridor only. Access to the coach was by external doors to internal vestibules, from which the corridor and toilets were accessed, and compartments were of decent size. They were all 60ft long over headstocks.

1935 saw the production of one all-first, two composites, eight thirds and one bogie van. These were all 9ft wide, and had relatively flat sides from roof down to waist level, below which was a slight tumblehome. In addition, two 1931-built dining vehicles and two 1919-built GSWR TPO’s were re-panelled to match the new coaches. Some of these carriages were used to form a new Dublin – Cork “Day Mail” set: bogie TPO, first, composite, the two diners, three thirds and the bogie van. And very nice it must have looked too, in the new crimson lake livery, when it went into service on Monday 5th August 1935. This “flagship” train, just like the 800 class later on, became a focus for publicity, but was not really representative of the general run of rolling stock to be found at the time, or for that matter, some time thereafter.

Dublin suburban services received attention in 1936, with the construction of two 6-coach sets, each formed of brake/third, third, two composites, third and brake/third. While full access was possible within each coach, they were not gangwayed, but did have the same flush-sided appearance of the 1935 coaches. Unlike the 1935 vehicles, which were relatively flat-sided, these had a slight “bulge”, being 9ft 3in at waist level and 9ft at roof level. Unfortunately, these relatively comfortable coaches had too few seats compared to older non-gangwayed stock, and passenger compaints grew, as people preferred to have a seat of some description rather than stand. The coaches were therefore soon dispersed among sets, rather than being kept together. In later days, CIE gave them gangways and occasionally used them on main line service, like the later Park Royals, despite their lack of toilets! 

1937 saw the appearance of further main line carriages, four composites and four thirds. It would be 1951 before Inchicore produced any more such coaches. The general layout of the 1937 coaches was similar to the 1935 versions, except that the “bulge” was even more pronounced, the coaches being 9ft 6in at waist level, 9ft at roof level and 8ft 10in at floor level. One composite was fitted with pressure ventilation, the first such application on GSR stock. Apart from the later Drumm sets C and D, these proved the last GSR coaching stock to be produced. 

While other contractors, including McK&H, did supply equipment to the MGWR, the most significant contractor, and certainly from the mid-1880's onwards, was the Railway Signal Company. Achill, Ballinrobe, Woodlawn, Galway, Moate etc. etc. are RSCo. design cabins, more or less altered by CIE. 

The War of Independence and, especially, the Civil War, produced a signficant requirement for new and rebuilt signal cabins. Where a brick base and frame were re-usable, the MGW seem to have built a new timber operating floor to a gabled roof design, but retaining external stairs. Where a completely new cabin was required, the same design, but in concrete blocks (with the base having a mock stone effect on the outside), was used, with a timber top and internal stairs. The involvement of the RSCo. was still present as several cabins featured RSCo. tread plates on the stairs and RSCo. frames were the norm. The new cabins had rear frames and stoves in the middle of the front.

The McK&H frames in Multyfarnham and Hill of Down are likely to be second hand ones fitted on singling in the early 1930's. The RSCo. frames employed by the MGW had 5.5" spacing between levers, whereas the McK&H ones had 4". It is reasonable to suppose that the cost conscious GSR would have looked to re-use servicable old equipment, in preference to building a new frame of the GSWR design (which also had 4" spacing). GSWR design cabins (with hipped roof) were also built on the MGW during the time of singling, Athenry and 46th Mile being examples. 

15 hours ago, Old Blarney said:

Where is this location? 

Could be the Curragh on one of the test runs?

21 hours ago, David Holman said:

Have often wondered about this line, which wandered from Macfin Junction to Magherafelt, seemingly passing little on the way. Wiki suggests it to have been the haunt of 4-4-0s and two coach trains, but information seems scarce.

 Apart from the Swilly's line to Burtonport, was there a more isolated stretch in Ireland?

The book "From "The North Atlantic" to the "Crackerjacks" "gives timetable information and commentary on later NCC timetables, so there's informtion there on the Derry Central. In 1948 it is mentioned that the 2.20pm Portrush-Belfast went via the Derry Central, due to lack of paths on the main line - a train to avoid for those in the know.

On 2/8/2020 at 11:58 PM, flange lubricator said:

this is as I would remember them

Thanks for the photo. The Irish Railfan's News indicates the P7T sign was originally yellow letters on a grey enamelled background, so this one looks original. 

18 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

Thanks for the details, presumably with a requirement for eight sets with four Standards each, that explains the conversion of 5 composites to Standards? As with only 36 built, you'd have no spares.

Though that would also leave no spare Composites with a requirement for 4.

Eight sets with four standards requires 32 standards, and there were 36. I believe the compo to standard conversions were done with a view to making up 10 sets, each formed of an EGV, First or Compo, Restaurant, 3 Standards, with nine in service and one to switch as a maintenance set, but I'm not clear whether that approach was implemented. I thought, as Mayner says, that subsequent timetables led to reduced numbers of trains, prompting longer set formations, and surpluses of such as Restaurant cars.

In the 1973 timetable, the eight sets would have two unused Firsts to cover for a missing Compo.

If one was looking for a small train formation, before the big changes of April 1973, the 18:10 Heuston-Tralee went to an AC set from 29th January, comprising EGV, Compo, Restaurant, 2 Standards. I don't think I'd like to be trying to get on the train on Fridays...