Dhu Varren

No apology necessary, it was all a tongue in cheek remark. Anyway, we still speak to each other from time to time. Last time was two weeks ago at Dundee, and hopefully the next time will be Aberdeen this weekend.

As this site relates to modelling, I assumed that the vague opening statement, not a question, referred to modelling NIR Gatwick stock. However, following the second question, P6, again a little vague, I assume that the questions refer to the real 12inches/foot scale coaches.

The NIR Gatwick stock was originally used on the Gatwick Express service between Gatwick Airport and London Victoria hauled by Class 73 locos, hence the NIR nickname of 'Gatwick' stock. After the service was changed to EMU operation, the Mk 2 stock became surplus to BR requirements, and NIR purchased eight of the coaches.

The stock itself was originally ordinary Mk 2f stock, refurbished and adapted for its new role in the Gatwick Express service. I have no idea what, if any, changes were by NIR after purchase. As the electrical systems of the Gatwick stock were different to NIR's existing Mk 2s, a new Brake Generator van was required, so 911 was rebuilt with a new generator, and without passenger accommodation, to work with the Gatwicks, and renumbered 8911.

Don't know about any NCC workings south of the border. It is possible that coaching stock could have worked through on a special, but I think it would be very unlikely that an NCC loco would have hauled any working over GNR metals, as a reversal would have been necessary at Lisburn. The GNR might even have taken over at Antrim with a smaller class of loco to work over the Antrim - Lisburn branch which did have weight and speed restrictions, followed by a main line engine taking over at Lisburn.

Even the Enterprise workings to Cork mentioned already only used GNR motive power as far as Dublin, and then CIE motive power for the Dublin to Cork leg.

Anyway, when I once queried a Regional Railways liveried 150 DMU masquerading as an NIR 450 running on Old Blarney, you politely informed me that 'it is my railway and I will run what I like on it'. So run an NCC train on the layout, at least it is Irish.

The nearest correct RTR coaches are the Lima 2nd class Mk 2fs, still available from time to time on eBay. Mk 2ds are close, but one toilet is in the wrong position. Toilets in the Gatwicks are on opposite corners as per the Lima 2f, not on the same side as per the Airfix/Dapol/Hornby 2d.

Dc kits also do a kit

http://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/shop/kits_modelling/plastic_dmu_emu_coaching_stock_kits_from_dc_kits_incudes_locomotives_/locomotives_coaches_departmental/scotrail_dbso_driving_brake_2nd_coach_.php

Over the years I have done a number of scratch conversions of Scotrail DBSOs from Airfix Mk2d Brake 2nd coaches, plus an NIR Gatwick DBSO currently under construction. Imagine my delight when DC Kits produced a kit. Much easier to build, I thought. Wrong. The moulding has been taken from an Airfix Mk2d conversion using a whitemetal conversion kit, which was not done well at all, even the profile of the whitemetal side panels did not match the profile of the Airfix coach sides. I had seen this conversion done years before I attempted my own first conversion, and vowed then I would never use the whitemetal kit. Imagine my dismay when I recognised the DC Kits kit to be a copy of what I had vowed to avoid. In the amount of time wasted in rectifying the many built in faults, including distortion in the moulding (comparison with other kits on the shelf revealed they all had the same problems) I could easily have done another conversion. It has to be the worst kit I have ever built. At one point I even considered chucking it in the bin. However, I persevered, completed the kit and promptly sold it for what I paid for it.

Airfix Mk2d scratch conversion. My other one is sound fitted.

I've just bought junk?????

Ah, but that was good junk!.

You may wish to consider using two motor bogies for your A Class. The difference in traction is immense. Tidy paint job on the A and some intricate work on the Cabin. Lots of people buy St Paddy for the chassis, I must have loads of bodies, if there is a market for them please let me know.

It is worth sticking the bodies on eBay, starting at £5.00 or thereabouts, and see what happens. I fund my railway by selling 'junk', so there should be no problem in selling your Hornby Deltic bodies.

Item now sold.

I have two front fairings for a Lima 201 for sale for £3.00 the pair, plus postage.

These are the front skirt extensions that clip on to the coupling mounting on the front of the bogies.

Noel, that loco is noisy, much more so than mine.

My small GMs use Loksound V3.5 decoders, 2 with Mr Soundguy sounds. He used to do sound for DCC Supplies, but now does it for Belfast Model Shop on Zimo decoders. I used to have one loco fitted with a Zimo from BMS, but I could not get it to match with the Loksounds for multiple running, so I sold it on. I also have 2 locos fitted with V3.5 decoders with modified downloads from ESU. Although not correct in terms of original loco type, in my opinion, they capture the sound of small GMs brilliantly. Irishthump got the same loco sound blown for him on a V4 decoder some time ago, and posted a video of it on this site.

I also had an 071 and a 201 fitted with Zimo decoders from BMS, but, although the sounds were good, I just could not get the sounds to synchronise with the loco movement, unlike the Loksounds. They too were sold on and replaced with V4s.

Must be an NCE thing. My Lenz works fine on POM. I have just been checking one of my 071s against a 181. My 141/181s are fitted with Loksound V3.5 decoders, and at crawl speed, with sound off, the 181 produced a faint sound similar to the 071 like you described. The 071 actually crawls slower than the 181, but is slightly noisier. Must just be the motor type, after all, the locos are made by different manufacturers for MM. Anyway, since all my locos are sound fitted, and I don't run my locos with the sound off, it is not such an issue for me.

After a bit of investigation, and a look at the MM Sound Decoder Manual, there does not appear to be any reference to calibrating the motor in it, even though it is produced by ESU, who produce the Loksound V4 decoder.

The Loksound V4 decoder Manual as downloaded from ESU, gives comprehensive instructions on calibration, both manual and automatic. It could be that there is a slight difference in the standard V4 decoder from the MM V4 decoder, or the auto calibration is somehow switched off in the MM version. The decoders I use are standard V4s, with the sound programme downloaded from ESU and loaded with a Lokprogrammer. CVs 51 to 55 have the same purpose in both versions.

Thanks. But after storing 0 in CV54, the sound starts immediately I press F1 and loco does not move.

It's the Murphy 071 sound decoder which I think is a LokSound 4.0.

Very strange Noel. It must be something to do with the NCE system. Although I have set up an NCE system for a friend, I am not familiar enough with it to make any suggestions.

I have just been checking my 071s, and found one that I had not calibrated. I have now just done it using the instructions mentioned, and it did exactly what it should have done.

Anyway, what I would suggest, is either try the calibration using someone else's equipment, not NCE, or put in manual entries. Having checked my locos, I found the calibrated CV values were very similar in all locos, so you could try those. Loco 1, CV51 0, CV52 18, CV53 89, CV54 50, CV55 18. Loco 2, CV51 0, CV52 18, CV53 94, CV54, 57, CV55 18.

Thank DV

When you say press F1 do you mean function 1 button. I tried that but it switches the loco sound on (i.e. engine startup). Also tried setting CV 54 to 0 and then speed step 1.

 

Thanks

Noel

Noel, Yes I did mean Function 1 button, the engine startup button, sorry if I was not clear on that.

Once you have set CV 54 to 0, and returned to drive mode, select the loco, ensure throttle is at speed step 0, then pressing the Function 1 button will start the calibration process before the sound starts up. The process does work. I recently fitted a V4 decoder to an O gauge loco which ran fine on DC, but ran like a bucket of bolts with the decoder fitted. After running the calibration process it was a totally different loco.

Noel, have you calibrated the motor of the 071 using CV 54. The Loksound V4 decoder has an automatic calibration process which involves matching the characteristics of the motor with the decoder.

Place the loco on a piece of level track, at least 10ft long. Make sure the loco is going to run in the direction of the clear track. Switch off all functions, and set speed at 0. Enter 0 into CV 54, and go back to the throttle. Press F1, and the loco will take off like a scalded cat for a second or two and then stop. The engine noise starts, and your loco is calibrated.

That's why I had mine assigned to "one push" function keys, the notching is much easier to control.

 

I think it stems from the fact that most function keys on DCC controllers are set to "latching", that is once you press them they stay on until pressed again. This is actually a setting on the controller and not the decoder. Some controllers allow you to change the latching settings for function keys, the Bachmann Dynamis is one that I know of.

This is where the Lenz LH100 handset beats the rest. Any of the function keys can be set by the user to be either 'latched' or 'momentary' for any locomotive, so you can have a function button programmed to be latched for one locomotive, and momentary for another. Not that you would want to do that. My locomotives have all had their functions standardised to the same function buttons, regardless of the origin of the sound decoder. It is not difficult to do if you follow the manufacturers instructions for the decoder.

Noel, I think I have found a source of suitable gears. Trackside Cars do Scalextric spares on eBay, and have various gears for 2mm diameter motor shafts. I am going to send off for some to see what they are like. I will keep you posted.

Finally received my order for Scalextric gears, but not from Trackside Cars. They could not find their stock.

Scalextric Part W8100 is perfect for the job, fits the motor shaft exactly and meshes perfectly with the Lima gears.

My apologies for the delay in responding, but I have been away for nearly two weeks.

Really appreciate your responses, Glenderg and River Roe. Unfortunately, I have already tried both those colours, and neither of them looks right to me, although my preference would be the Revell No 50. Looks like I am going to have to go for some Precision paint, and match up some Humbrol/Revell from that.

Many thanks for that info Kirley, but I was already aware of it, and I have a number of their Irish colours already. What I was after was a colour, or mix of colours, that would be readily available locally, like Humbrol, Revell, Tamiya etc. I currently use Revell 52 for NIR dark blue, 50/50 Revell 30 + 65 for IR orange, and 50/50 Humbrol 3 + 195 for UTA green. All I need now is NIR light blue, which I don't have anything to match the colour to, and photographs vary too much to be of any use.

WAP now installed in the roofspace. No longer any problems with iPhone dropping out and losing control. Still in two minds as to whether I prefer a using a controller with buttons and an extension lead, or a wireless touchscreen. Certainly, unless going for a good operating session, then for quickness in starting up, the old fashioned wired connection has the edge.

Cheap is the keyword here. No point in spending a fortune on parts, when you could spend it on a new 201. I reckon my 56/60 conversion cost me about £12, and I still have one Lima motor to dispose of, plus one complete Lima running chassis which I intend to keep just in case I ever decide to convert the loco back. No modifications were carried out to the body, so it is still as original.

While composing this reply, my mind has been wandering, yes I know it has been wandering for years, but I was thinking about the 56/60 conversion, and I have got it seriously wrong. There is no 56 involved in the conversion. The bogies are, in fact, Athearn SD40 with the Lima sideframes fitted and Bachmann wheels. The original Athearn wheels are pretty ropey so I replaced them. Sorry about all that. The class 56 bogies were resold on eBay, the 56 chassis ended up in a Hornby 47 body with 60 bogies fitted with Lima 47 sideframes. Confused, well I know I was.

I would agree with all the comments so far about Lima 201s, but at the time, we were very glad to get them. They were, of course, the standard of the day, with their pancake motors, big coarse wheels, traction tyres and lack of pickups. I ran a fleet of heavily modified Lima Class 37s and 47s, which were beautiful runners that drew comment about that at many exhibitions. I never did get around to doing the same mods to my five 201s. Before the advent of the latest 201s, I did, however, modify the chassis of one of the Limas and fitted Athearn SD40 bogies with Bachmann wheels, driven by a Hornby Class 50 motor. This loco runs beautifully, although the bogie sideframes are totally incorrect. Rather than scrap/sell off the other Lima 201s, I am currently rebuilding two chassis that I obtained on eBay for £5.00 each, round butchered Hornby class 60 chassis. These chassis have had Athearn SD40 bogies fitted, which are the same wheelbase as the Lima bogies, and the Lima sideframes are fitted to them. Externally, the locos look exactly like Limas, apart from the wheels, which are also Bachmann. When not next to the later MM 201s I find them quite acceptable, and plan to eventually have three of them converted to my Hornby standard, and to sell off two that are not in appropriate livery.

Lima underframe with steel bar screwed to each side for extra weight. Athearn bogies.

Lima underframe attached to Hornby Class 60 chassis. Athearn SD40 bogies with Lima sideframes. Underframe still has paint applied by previous owner.

I do prefer enamel, but where there is no option, I use acrylic. Either way it does not matter, as everything gets a coat of satin enamel when finished.

HI DC

 

Thanks. Yes the double slips and cross overs may pose a problem unless adjusted for DCC, but I will do some test runs over it next weekend with various rolling stock. It was wired for DC block sections 19 years ago so I may just have to leave all sections switched on for a DCC test. I was about to start scenery filling this weekend (i.e. foam + plaster) but have put that on hold until any wiring adjustments needed for DCC have been completed (i.e. 1st fix electrical).

 

Noel

 

Pic as requested. Track work approaching terminus platforms.

Noel, thanks for posting the pic. Nice track layout. My first thoughts were that the slips could be the problem. Unfortunately, I don't have any slips on my layout to examine, as I try to avoid them where possible, although there are some in my local club. However, I am going away for two weeks, so I can't do anything until I return.

My second thought was that perhaps there are wheels on some of your vehicles that have not got the correct back to back measurement, and are causing a short by the back of the wheel touching the switch rail. I know it should not happen, but even new vehicles can be incorrect. A friend of mine bought a new Bachmann loco recently which continuously kept derailing at certain places. He blamed the track on the layout, even though all other locos ran fine, and got a little upset when I asked if he had checked the back to backs. He eventually did check, and lo, the back to backs on a number of wheelsets were incorrect. Opening out the wheels just a fraction cured the problem. I always make a point of checking the back to back on any wheels, from any source, that I fit.

Its funny what you learn all the time. Nearly gave up on an old X04 Hornby 0-6-0 Panier Tank DCC conversion. Had a TMS T1 decoder installed, but very shaky running, in fact worse than I remember on DC. Put it back on DC but it was running quite well for it's vintage. So did a full decoder reset and now its running as well on DCC as it had on DC. Bizarre. The only settings I remember changing 1st time around after I fitted it were standard CVs 2,5,6,3,4. I guess the BEMF somehow modifies its algorithm based on these CVs and it didn't suit the old X04 motor. Might try another decoder in her to see if that make a difference even though she is well enough ok now for an old chassis.

 

Any words of wisdom or suggestions for those who have already been in these 'pot holes'?

Noel, it might be worth switching off the BEMF, and seeing how the loco runs. I have had similar issues myself, and switching it off did make an improvement. You can always switch it back on again if there is no improvement.