Dhu Varren

Hi Dhu Varren I think 922 and 928 were the only 2 coaches not converted to open stock for whatever reason and both were scrapped early in the 90,s also 914 was not a generator van it was only a 1st/brake corridor coach.....

Thanks for the info. You could be right about 922 & 928. Information I have about them is conflicting. One source says they were converted along with all the others, the other source suggests they were not. However, all records have 914 as being a Brake Generator Van converted from a 1st/Brake corridor coach. There is no mention in any of my records of a pure 1st/Brake corridor coach in NIR stock. Information about 914 now confirmed on the Internet.

http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=4779

Back home again, and have looked up information about corridor coaches. Up till 1988 there was a mixture of corridor and open stock, and in 1988/9 all corridor stock was converted to open seating. Corridor stock was as follows. Generator Vans 911, 912, 913, 914, 915. 1st Class 902. 2nd Class (all ex BR 1st class coaches) 921, 922, 923, 924, 925, 926, 927, 928. It would appear that only the 2nd Class coaches converted from 1st Class were corridor coaches, all other 2nd Class coaches were open plan.

The easy way to recognise the DVTs from any angle is that they do not have any exhaust equipment on the roof above the guards compartment, whereas the Generator vans do. Also the DVTs have four large windows at the passenger end, whereas the Generator vans have only three. The DVTs were converted from Brake Second coaches, and the Generator vans from Brake First coaches with one bay removed. Body wise, the Lima Brake First coach is perfect for conversion to a Generator Van, but not a DVT, unless you can accept the incorrect window spacing. Coaches were a mixture of both corridor and open coaches, but NIR used a number of ex BR 1st class corridor coaches converted to 2nd class open coaches, as did IE. I do not have access to my books on NIR coach details at the moment, but if no one else comes up with answers to your question about corridors, I will look it up when I get home at the weekend. The Lima Mk 2s, the second open, and first corridor, body wise are perfect for NIR coaches. You just need to know what interiors are required. Incidently, just in case you are not aware of it, the basic difference between the 1st class and 2nd class bodyshell is that 1st class bodyshells have 7 large windows, and 2nd class bodyshells have 8 windows. The 2nd class coaches converted from 1st class, will, of course have just 7 windows.

I second that. That's the only way to condition dirty track , the meths/IPA is only good once the track is basically bright clean

I would agree. If your track is really mucky, then a track rubber is the answer. The only problem is the fine 'dust' shed by the rubber during the cleaning process, as it can get into all sorts of nooks and crannies, especially the working parts of points thus causing poor contact of the point blades. Once you have got the track clean, then the liquid method is best for keeping it clean. Roughly 50% of my track is very difficult to access with a track rubber, so the track cleaning wagons are a must for me.

Sorry, to reopen this thread, guys. Can someone help me with the liveries in these photos (Page 1 of thread)

1. Is 112 in the early blue livery in first photo similar to MM0111?

2. There are two different liveries in the photos that I did not pick up on at first. One may be earlier with silver grey sides to the coach and a blue stripe and logo… the second is similar but has a thin white stripe above and below the blue and white background on the NR logo/

3. Does anyone recognize the coach behind 113 in the third photo. It has a different window arrangement from most of the coach in rakes. I though it was a brake but it is followed by a second in photo 3. It is also seen singly in other photos behind the loco.

4. Is 547 in the send last photo a buffet car?

5. WHat I the significance of the red and yellow lines on the coaches, first? buffet?

Thanks for any insight!

1. Yes the livery is the same as MM0111, except for the yellow warning panel. The MM0111 has the earlier orange/red panel.

2. The livery without the white stripes was the original blue/silver grey. The white lines were added later, and trains could be seen with mixed liveries during the change.

3. The coach behind the loco is a Brake Generating Van. Like IE, NIR had to provide electric power for lighting and heating. IE chose to have dedicated non-passenger carrying vehicles for the job, while NIR used passenger carrying vehicles, one half of which carried passengers, the other half had a guards compartment and a diesel generator, hence the grilles on one side. The other side was the corridor side, and had no grilles. All NIR Mk2 passenger trains had at least on generator van in the consist. The second coach is not a generator van, but one of the original driving trailers used with the Hunslets on the Enterprise when the loco was pushing.

4. Yes 547 is a Buffet Car, sometimes known as a Griddle Car. Now preserved by the RPSI.

5. The red and yellow lines on the coaches followed BR practice. Red indicated catering accommodation, and yellow indicated 1st class accommodation. The lines only appeared immediately over the appropriate accommodation, so a vehicle with only half used for catering would only have the line over the catering half.

Hope this all makes some sense.

More correctly it controlled the exit from the loop so I suspect it's in effect an outer home signal

You are right about the signal controlling the exit from the loop, but it would be a Starter signal. The signal before this one, which would be before the loop, would be the Home signal, and would probably be a bracket signal, and probably have some form of shunting signals as well. The signal before that, well down the Limerick line, if there was one, would be the Outer Home.

Looks like my photo, I'm glad I photographed them. The South cabin, as alluded to by its windows, is a very old cabin in a similar design to that of Cherryville Junction, styled almost 'house' like before the standard 'railway' style cabins became established.

 

Had a look at your link Eiretrains, it certainly looks like the same photo. Some other excellent pictures to be seen, including No 40, a view of this signal, and others, looking towards Limerick from the crossing. A piece of history.

Would have been at the same time as CTC was extended through to Limerick, (from memory end of 1986?). One end of the pocket loop ended up in CTC territory, the other stayed within LJN's patch. The loop would only rarely have seen a crossing train by then, so full running signals weren't really needed. Shunt signals catered for freight reversal and running around from the Limerick end.

The starting signals from the Pocket loop towards Waterford are, in my view, as Snapper describes. An old semaphore practice was to have arms one above the other, rather than a bracket, particularly where space was tight or speeds were low, and you didn't need to see the relative positions on brackets from afar to safely pass the signals. In such cases, the convention is arms top to bottom, read to routes left to right. Normal signals are cheaper than brackets - money talks.

Picture found on the Internet. Seems to be the signal in question, caption reads:- A pre-1925 Great Southern & Western Railway semaphore signal at Limerick Jct, controlling Limerick to Waterford trains.

A good simple and cheap way to clean track is to use one or more of the old fashioned Triang Hornby track cleaning box cars. These have a felt pad mounted underneath which can be soaked with Methylated Spirit or Isopropyl Alcohol (IPA), and run round the layout a few times. Methylated Spirit is readily available from various outlets such as chemists and DIY stores, IPA is a little more controlled, but if you know your local chemist you should be alright. It is also available online, and over the counter from stores like Maplin Electronics.

My track cleaning train consists of two of the old track cleaning cars with a little extra weight in each, with two locos, one pulling and one pushing. This ensures that should the loco which is pulling, stall on uncleaned track, the pusher is there, on cleaned track, to give a little nudge to get going again. A useful tactic for cleaning hard to get at trackwork such as in tunnels etc..

The Triang Hornby track cleaning box cars are readily available on eBay, often at reasonable prices, or can be picked up secondhand at exhibitions.

 

The down signal is presumably sited next to a siding and high to allow it to be seen approaching from the North not the south

 

Equally the inner home signal beside the South box, its actually situated beside the DOWN line, even though its refers to the UP line. I was always of the opinion that signals were sited next to the track they referred to , but clearly not in these cases

 

You are, of course, right. Got my ups and downs mixed. But then life is full of them.

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Heres a nice shot from 2001, interesting the tall signal to the right is the down signal, yet its actually position next to a siding

 

 

The tall signal would be in that position for sighting purposes for a train approaching round the L/H bend from the South

My reading of that would be 18 would allow you to go as far as 7 and

17 would allow you to go to 11,12,13 signal post. and 39 does look like a shunt signal.

Fascinating subject, Railway Signalling. Looking closely at 17 & 18, in all the pictures, 17's arm appears to be shorter than 18, which would suggest that 17 is a subsidiary signal. According to my book on signalling, "for shunting movements on running lines in the same direction as the normal flow of through traffic, the subsidiary signal often takes the form of a miniature arm mounted below the main running stop signal". Shunt ahead, calling-on and warning signals come into this category. To fit in with snapper's reading, I would have thought 17 & 18 would have been on a bracket, like 8 & 10.

Thanks Dhu Varren. One thing I was wondering about for my old non DCC stock; might I be better installing decoder by using plug harness types and then plug them into a bare wires harness that is soldered onto the loco (or 21/8 pin direct decoder plugged into a bare wires harness). That way I could remove or replace decoders by just unplugging them rather than desoldering or cutting wires. Appreciate there won't be enough space to do this with tank engines, but there should be enough space in diesels and steam tender engines.

Noel, using chip harnesses is a very good way of fitting decoders into non DCC locomotives, provided there is room to fit the harness and a decoder. Experience has shown that space is a limiting factor in many locomotives, particularly steam outline locomotives, and even with many diesel outline locomotives, it can be difficult to fit both.

In the end I decided to go with NCE for the DCC conversion. I like their HH cabs and price for what you get.

 

The only feature the NCE lacked that might have been nice was to have a database of locos with alphanumeric names for recall by number or from name lists. The Ecos 50200 had that, but wasn't taken by their HH cabs. In the future NCE may probably end up with a more modern base controller which supports iOS or Android tablet apps for configuration and setup rather than rather dated two line mono LCD screens. I believe the existing NCE setup can be used with cab/throttle apps on smartphones, but only indirectly via a separate PC running JMRI. Hopefully future controllers will have a more elegant direct WIFI or BlueTooth interface for direct use with smartphone DCC apps (i.e. not needing a PC in the mix), or perhaps I have missed something.

 

Q1 - Any recommendations for 'wires only' DCC loco decoders for about 40 of my old non-DCC steam locos (Bachmann/Hornby) none of which have any lights. (To be fitted gradually over the years)

 

Q2 - Do 'keep alive' versions work or is it better to stay away from that option?

 

Thanks again for the advice received so far.

Noel, I have been using the Lenz system with LH100 Hand helds for some years now, and a year ago set up an NCE system for a friend. I have to say that apart from the feel of the hand held controller, which feels better in the hand than the Lenz, I felt that the NCE system was not a patch on the Lenz system. All systems have advantages, and disadvantages, over other systems, so it is best to try to experience other systems before committing to what is, after all, a large financial investment whatever system you settle for.

As regards DCC decoders, over the years I have tried various makes and models of decoders. The decoder that I found best for my requirements was the Bachmann 3 Function decoder. The price is not excessive and my locos all performed better with it. I would recommend staying away from Hornby decoders, unless you are really stuck for space, as the current rating is quite low compared to other makes. Also, if you are 'hard wiring' decoders into non DCC locos, the wiring on the Hornby decoders has a nasty habit of coming adrift from the decoder. While you are soldering the wire back on, very often another wire will come off, and so on. I have installed many decoders for people, both plug in, and hard wired, but I am reluctant to fit Hornby plug ins, and certainly will not hard wire them any more.

Watch this space Dhu Varren as I have said to Andy Im doing the paint work so when its done then you can see the black line along mine, I think the main reason a lot of guys don't put the black line in is because on the bumble bee livery it interferes with the intercity transfer......

Thanks for the explanation. I look forward to seeing the finished vehicles.

Q - Should a MM 071 with the MM DCC Sound module fitted run on 12v dc analog?

Noel, it depends on the setting for CV29. Find out what the current value is, make a note of it, add 4 to it and enter the new value. It should then run on DC. If not, you can always put the original value back in. If you have any problems, let me know what the original value was, and take it from there.

Very nice work, but I have just one question regarding livery. Why do so many excellent models of NIR vehicles in Bumble Bee and Translink liveries, not have the black band along the bottom of the coach side up to the top of the step recess. Every real vehicle in those liveries I have looked at, has this band, yet most models I have seen, don't.

Forgot to mention. With using Peco Code 75, for the awkward location where an 'off the shelf' point will not fit, Peco do the 'Individulay' range of track components such as plain sleepers, point sleepers (you cut them to length as required), and rail fasteners, all in polystyrene. You can then construct your own special track which will match the RTR Code 75.

Picture shows a special slip/scissors combination, the main part being built using two Code 75 points and individulay components.

I see no need to build something else before investing. The whole Peco Code 75 range is excellent, and looks so much better than Code 100. The only down side is availability. Most model shops on this side of the pond will stock the Code 100 range, but not necessarily the Code 75 range. This is not a problem when purchasing points etc, as they can be obtained online or by mail order easily, but small quantities of track incur high shipping charges. Likewise, when you run out of Code 75 rail joiners, you can't just pop down to your local Model Shop to pick up some more unless they stock Code 75, you have to wait a few days for a delivery by mail, which can be frustrating when you want to complete what you were doing. However, I personally would never use anything else now for a new build.

So did y'all swap or wot?

We are in communication by PM, just working on details of the physical swap.

Thanks. Just read a magazine article on fitting one of these to a 141/181 but it seems a little bit of cannibalisation is needed to fit a speaker.

No modification is required if you fit a standard 20mm X 40mm speaker. The 141/181 comes with a speaker mounting already fitted, so all that is needed is to fit the speaker, solder the speaker wires to the circuit board where indicated, plug in the 21 pin decoder, and off you go. I have 2 141s, and 2 181s, two of which are fitted with DCC Supplies sound, and two are fitted with the sound from Olivias Trains. that Irishthump mentioned.

I have several of MSB's sound decoders, 141's, 071's and 201's. As Boskonay said the quality of the sound files are excellent.

I also have a 141 decoder that I had made up by Olivia's Trains in the UK, it's a Loksound decoder like the Murphy Models 071 and 201 (the MSB decoders are Zimo). Both types have excellent motor control but the Loksounds have a "manual notching" feature which allows you to increase the revs of the engine sound independently of the locos speed. It's great for simulating getting a heavy train started but not essential!

DCC Supplies can reblow Loksound V3.5 decoders with 141/181 and 201 sounds. These sounds were originally compiled by Mr Sound Guy, who currently does the sounds for MSB. Unfortunately the V3.5 decoder is no longer available new, and DCC supplies cannot blow V4.0 decoders with the sounds, but if you can obtain a used V3.5, or have a spare one then they can reblow it for you. I had a couple reblown earlier this year for £12.00 each plus postage.

Looking for a Murphy Models NIR 112 body shell only if anyone has one spare. Must be in as new condition.

 

Would be willing to purchase it on its own or swap it for a NIR 8113 body shell.

If you are still looking, I have a MM NIR 112 that I would be willing to swap the bodyshell for a NIR 8113 bodyshell.

Starting a new DCC layout. Was planning to use Peco Code 75 Flexitrack as Peco probably have the best livefrog points/turnouts.

(Comments welcome on this)

I have many older Dapol wagons (7-plank and Cattle)

I seem to remember that older wheels may have issues on the Code 75 track?

Can anyone verify whether they are likely to run well on Code 75 or can my 'cattle' be shod differently to cope?

Thanks,

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Despite having only just joined Irish Railway Modeller, I have been railway modelling for more years that I care to remember.

I have a DCC layout partly using Peco Code 75 track. The only wheels that give any problems on my Code 75 track are ones that are more than more than about 20 years old, such as early Lima 'Pizza Cutter' wheels with very coarse flanges, the later ones with finer flanges are fine. Having said that, the older ones will run OK, they just run along the tops of the sleepers and make a noise like a derailed wheelset. In my case, this part of the layout is quite slow speed, and with sound fitted diesels, the noise from the wheels is not too noticeable, so I can live with it until I get round to replacing them.

Early Hornby moulded plastic wheels with or without metal tyres can be a problem with inconsistent back to back measurements, but more modern wheels should not be a problem.

Dapol, Bachmann and anything else produced in the last 20 years should be fine. It is just a case of 'suck it and see'. A good investment is a 'back to back' gauge. Even with new wheels there can be inconsistencies with back to back measurements. I always check new wheels before fitting.

If it is necessary to replace wheels, there are good replacements available from Bachmann, and a number of smaller manufacturers, such as Markits and Gibson, but they tend to be a bit more expensive. Hornby also do replacement wheels, which are reasonably priced, but I am not so keen on them, due to their odd tyre profile. My preference is the old Jackson/Romford range, which now comes under the Markits banner.

If rewheeling, it is worth remembering that Lima vehicles use a shorter, approx 24.5mm axle, as opposed to the normal approx 25.75mm axle that everyone else uses, although I believe some smaller manufacturers offer their wheels with different length axles. I personally just reuse the original Lima axles with new wheels, although it can sometimes be a challenge to remove the Lima wheels from the axles.

I hope this info is of some help.

David