exciecoachbuilder

15 minutes ago, GSWR 90 said:

Here is the inside of the plough van at Downpatrick, 24852 built 1978. Definitely looks like those two benches were once beds

That's them alright, thanks for the photo. That's certainly a flashback. 

Speaking of beds on railway vehicles, I remember back in the late 1970's when the new ballast plough vans were being fitted out in the carriage shop. That there was a bed base made from plywood fitted in the van for staff? If someone has further information? My claim to fame on the plough van ,was doing some glazing with another guy on just one of the vans. Paul.....

15 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I've no clue as to what "discord" is; presumably a modern variant of tiktokgram, instamusk or bookface - but - THIN LIZZY! Yes.

That famous gig at Dalymount Park in 1976 (or was it 77) was probably the single best outdoor gig I've ever been to.

Here you go JB, 1977, the good oul days.

45 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

After a busy week I now have a long weekend and have made some more progress on the E.

I've trial-assembled the chassis and made some spacers, washers etc to keep everything in line.

Then I fitted the brake hangers and a representation of the cross-beams. Only the lower part of these is visible below the frames.

Finally I assembled the radiator fan. This doesn't actually turn but I don't think it would be too hard to do - I'll leave that as a challenge to someone else!

Then I dismantled everything, gave it a good clean and dry, masked off the hornguides, and all the parts have now had a coat of etch primer.

Oh yes, I'm loving this. I will look forward to seeing this running on the layout. Well done my man. 

4 minutes ago, exciecoachbuilder said:

Oh, and seems that you mentioned the central stores, here are a few clues from it's former past. Should be easy for you Josh, to work out what sort of a workshop it was? Give it a go anyway josh. Don't forget and send me in a pic of your ticket machine. Pity you weren't around when they were demolishing the oul railway shed. Hard luck man..

By the way Josh, I could go on if you want? A lot more to see.. 

Oh, and seems that you mentioned the central stores, here are a few clues from it's former past. Should be easy for you Josh, to work out what sort of a workshop it was? Give it a go anyway josh. Don't forget and send me in a pic of your ticket machine. Pity you weren't around when they were demolishing the oul railway shed. Hard luck man..

On 28/2/2025 at 6:13 PM, josh_ said:

Thats unreal paul, you must of been in the central stores when u found those, was there and saw soem bits too like a ticket machine for parking ur cars(no change was in it), level crossing lights and a 22000 cab as a movie prop and boxes that said movie props ill send pics in 

Good man Josh, here's a few bits and bobs from the oil demolished shed. Hope you enjoy.

48 minutes ago, josh_ said:

Thats unreal paul, you must of been in the central stores when u found those, was there and saw soem bits too like a ticket machine for parking ur cars(no change was in it), level crossing lights and a 22000 cab as a movie prop and boxes that said movie props ill send pics in 

 

How insulting, thanks for that Josh.

I never liked the later CIE broken wheel. Just leave it as it was, end of.

Speaking of things getting f**ked into skips, years ago there were two buildings in Inchicore works where they stored disused railway stuff. I heard that one of the buildings ( a big shed beside the foundry) was being demolished, and everything was getting thrown out, in fact the contractor ( hammond lane) had started clearing the shed out. A mate and I took a ramble down to have a look, and what a treasure trove we found. I got old carriage plates , an old guards lamp, flying snail buttons and other bits and pieces. My mate found old signal cabin staff poles? with names of disused stations on them and a semaphore spectacle part. I shudder to think what was eventually thrown out in the end? A few years later the other building, which stored files , photos drawings etc, was being cleared out. This time it was C.I.E staff clearing it out, and I knew the lads, so I got some interesting stuff from there. One very interesting item I pulled out of the skip was a GSWR board minutes 1902 to 1904, really interesting, Robert Coey's signature on some of the pages and a guy who's surname was Ormsby? little notes pinned to some of the pages, the whole shebang. People have no idea what was thrown out, it's almost criminal. Then again not everyone, both managers and staff were interested in railways, it was just a job. Of all the people who I got to know over the years there was only one or two who had a strong interest in Irish railways past and present. Although, let me rephrase that. I have absolutely no interest in the present Irish railway system. The nail in the coffin for me was back in the mid 2000's.. Paul.

On 27/2/2025 at 9:26 AM, josh_ said:

UPDATE ON CLONSILLA:

So yesterday i went clonsilla as coolmine and castleknock have no staff at those stations and clonsilla had, i dont know the actual name of the job, lets call him the 'crossing man'.

So I askedn him what @minister_of_hard_ship told me he told me the IE signs are stored in museums, i mentioned if inchicore would too?

He said yes there too and they be worth thousands and held as relics in glass cases 

But a friend of mine said they went white with the slightest bit of sun and were all fucked into a skip due to their condition

On 27/2/2025 at 9:26 AM, josh_ said:

UPDATE ON CLONSILLA:

So yesterday i went clonsilla as coolmine and castleknock have no staff at those stations and clonsilla had, i dont know the actual name of the job, lets call him the 'crossing man'.

So I askedn him what @minister_of_hard_ship told me he told me the IE signs are stored in museums, i mentioned if inchicore would too?

He said yes there too and they be worth thousands and held as relics in glass cases 

But a friend of mine said they went white with the slightest bit of sun and were all fucked into a skip due to their condition

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

Many thanks, you're too kind!

I decided to ask Colour-Rail for a better copy of the view of E402 in 1961 shown in Irish Railways Traction and Travel, 1994 edition, page 70, and they are going to scan it for me.

In the process we have also identified two other nice colour views in their collection, reference numbers IR637 and FIE02925. I'm ordering good copies of those for my personal use, but for info if you put those numbers into the 'reference' search box here:

https://colourrail.co.uk/nonuk

You will find that IR637 is mainly a colour view of D class 1000 in original dark green, plus the cab of silver E417. Dark green loco, eau-de-nil snail and E number in one shot, for the shades of green...

FIE02925 is a panoramic colour view of the goods yard at Albert Quay, with E403 shunting. The top of the footplate looks very dark, but then so does the roof!

 

Slightly tangential:

• FIE04522 is E413 in black, a very nice view shunting a green carriage
• FIE05083 and FIE05084 are at Fenit, with a silver shunter at work, but it's G602 rather than an E.

Top class info as usual. Now we have the three amigos, you, Jonathan and Mayner. Cheers. Paul

3 hours ago, Signal Post said:

I should clarify that my "funny" emoji reaction to your last post solely relates to the last line!

The rest of that post and indeed this thread is wonderfully informative and interesting, I never had a huge interest in the E401 class...until now. Now they are definitely on my bucket list.

Your work on building this model is truly amazing, from doing the artwork for the etches through to obtaining the etches and then onto construction has been wonderful to observe and all done at a pace that even @Darius43 of this parish (who appears to be the record holder for rapid and wonderful construction of models) would , I am sure, be proud of.

Thanks for all of this and keep it coming!

Have to agree, it really is wonderful to observe. Also, like you I never had an interest in E class shunters, but now I want one. It looks so good that it's almost a shame to paint it. 

7 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

This morning I've done most of the footplate and fuel tank subassembly. Quite pleased with how this has worked out, especially the steps.

I still need to tackle the cosmetic frames and a few other details, as well as writing the next chapter of the instructions. 

However, I couldn't resist bolting together the main parts to see how it looks. I'm sure there will be some more fettling needed but this gives the right sort of impression I think.

Wow, fantastic. Well done. 

8 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Very interesting to see the driving trailer in use. I had imagined that it was intended for a short 2-car power+trailer set, but the photo shows it as part of a 4-car set with the pair of railcars at one end, rather than sandwiching the trailers. Presumably this required less shunting when the normal 2-car set needed extending to 4 at busy times. 

It's also a reminder that the 1950s CIE modernisation wasn't limited to the main lines, and even the W&T received a modern fleet.

 

I hope all goes well with your other commitments and I look forward to the future batches of photos.

Park Royal driving trailer? That's a new one for me.

On 1/2/2025 at 12:40 PM, Mol_PMB said:

If IRM decide not to do the Laminates, then the underframe and bogies from the Park Royals would be an excellent starting point.

Indeed, if the Park Royals weren't so lovely in their own right I'd consider buying a couple as the basis for modifying into Laminates - the roof should be suitable too?

I think the 'true' laminate bogie coaches were:

• 7-bay Standards 1429-1443 and 1444-1448 (silver)
• Composites 2162-2171 (silver)
• 8-bay Standards 1449-1496 (green)
• Brake Standards 1909-1913 (green)

Of those, Worsley Works have done sides for the 8-bay standards and the brake standards. The 7-bay standards would be the easiest to modify from a Park Royal as the interior layout is the same.

 

Don't forget that the those laminate coaches were rebuilt in the late 1970's. I have posted this info before, but the only original part of these coaches after the 'rebuilds', was the roof and ends of the coaches. So, you would have a choice of different sides, 1950's or late 70's. 

12 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

The two E421s at Downpatrick were referred to as the “tractors” there. I drove 421 a couple of times. I am not sure if the lads there dreamed that name up, or perhaps copied it from CIE men…

But yes, an apt label!

Mol - with an uneven wheelbase, what donor chassis do you propose?

That's interesting Jonathan, thanks for that info.

6 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

The two E421s at Downpatrick were referred to as the “tractors” there. I drove 421 a couple of times. I am not sure if the lads there dreamed that name up, or perhaps copied it from CIE men…

But yes, an apt label!

Mol - with an uneven wheelbase, what donor chassis do you propose?

15 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Got a few more Bullieds at this excellent price. You can never have too many beet wagons!

That's true, I have a mix of beets and flying snail ones. I have ordered another snail pack, I think that the all over grey colour looks really good on these excellent models.

Well done to all, and that's not handy work either. A lot of lifting, pulling and dragging. Paul..

15 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

You may have seen over on my other thread that I’ve been designing an etched ‘kit’ for an E401 class shunter in 4mm scale. I’ll document the build in this dedicated thread so that it’s self-contained and easier to find in future.

I've chosen this prototype partly because I like them and there is no kit option presently available and partly because, with none surviving, I suspect they will be a less appealing prototype for IRM to make. They're not the prettiest locos either, but as the largest class of 5'3" gauge shunters in Ireland they played an important part in railway history.

I've based my artwork on this official drawing, which is fairly well dimensioned and having checked them all it seems to be drawn to scale. I've also reviewed over 100 photos to work out the details not shown on the drawing, and where necessary I've scaled dimensions off the photos. So I can't claim perfection but the main dimensions are correct and we'll see in the test build whether it looks 'right'.

I have designed this model for myself, it’s not intended as a commercial venture. However, I could also make the etches available to others who would like to build one. This thread could also act as a set of instructions and will give forum members an idea of what’s involved in the construction. I could also consider a 7mm scale version - I've already had one expression of interest in that and I quite fancy a big one myself. 

For starters, here's the etch artwork that I've sent off to be made. I should be receiving the trial etch early next week:

This is just the bodywork and the 'functional' chassis will be a separate etch in a thicker material.

 

There were 19 locos in the E401 class, built at Inchicore in 1957-1958. Most survived into the 1970s but only a handful beyond 1975, and the last one was withdrawn in 1979.

The locos were all painted silver when new. From 1962, some received black and tan livery (without roundel); I think these were E402/403/405/406/412/415/419. Locos repainted from 1964 received black livery (with roundel) and this remained in use until the end. However, a few locos retained black and tan livery, and the regular Heuston pilot E402 was repainted in black and tan (with roundel) at some stage in the late 1960s and carried that livery until withdrawn in 1975. E412 also carried black and tan until at least 1975.

They were primarily used around Inchicore / Heuston / North Wall, but some ventured further afield including E414 based in Cork for some time, E410 trialled at Fenit and on the CBSCR, and another on the Harcourt Street-Bray line. Latterly their main duties were North Wall to Islandbridge transfer freights, and Heuston pilots. On the challenging route from North Wall to Islandbridge, they were thrashed mercilessly and when the 400hp E class were finally replaced with 141s, the permitted train load was reduced for a loco with more than twice the power!

The etch provides for several detail options to cover most of the class over their lifetime. The major visible variations are:

• Radiator side grilles (several variants)
• Small grille/panel below radiator grille on LHS (several variants)
• Removal of exhaust/silencer cowl on locos still in use in the mid-late 1970s
• Addition of emergency vacuum brake dump valve on cab backon locos still in use in the mid-late 1970s

Having looked at a lot of photos of these locos and the E421s, I've come to the conclusion that there are hardly any common features between these two outwardly-similar classes. If this project works out well I could consider doing an E421 as a follow-up if it doesn't feature in IRM's plans. However, it would be almost starting from scratch rather than a few minor tweaks.

Anyway, once the etch turns up next week, watch this space...

Mol

Best of luck with this. The good old E class, the 'Scunthorpe united' of the diesel loco classes These loco's did all the shunting in Inchicore works, and for such a small engine they were incredibly powerful. I saw them shunting full length trains, including mk2's. I saw them pulling a line (albeit slowly, and blocking the main road that the tracks cross, for about half an hour) of disued loco's  A's, C's Sulzers etc from the siding beside diesel no1 in the works. In comparison to the GM sound, I thought the E's  sounded terrible, like a tractor ploughing a field... Paul.

I would never get tired looking at these photographs, fantastic stuff altogether.. Paul.

11 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Here's a link to a drawing of the RCH PO wagon registration plate - a very standardised and (in GB) legally required feature on PO wagons:

Bloody hell, two  No 18 wood screws and two 3/8th countersunk bolts , to secure this small plate onto the vehicle? This plate certainly wouldn't be falling off anytime soon...

On 24/12/2024 at 3:11 PM, Mol_PMB said:

I hope you can have a relaxing lie-in tomorrow morning then! Another wonderful selection of photos - many thanks.

The Connolly shot is interesting for the variety of traction and the variety of shades of orange - proof that they didn't always match and that variations in paint colour, fading and weathering could give substantial differences even on fairly clean locos and carriages.

 

Before my time period, didn't the GNR 4-4-0s look wonderful in blue, whether they were big or small ones!

Yeah, the Connolly station picture is an absolute gem, and it captures 1970's C.I.E perfectly. In regards to the paint work on the vehicles, CIE always used the same paint back then, the same mixing procedure etc. The different shades are no doubt due to age. If you look at the 141 and the 121 class on the right of the picture, the 121 looks like it hasn't had a lick of paint in years, whereas the 141 looks like it had a recent enough repaint. The paint was always supplied from the same manufacturer, and the spraying technique ( until 1999) usually was , orange sprayed on the entire coach/ loco, then the black bands were marked out and hand painted on.. Paul.

26 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

The RPSI did the same thing on some Cravens a decade or more later. I think the idea was to distinguish them from CIE / IR / IE normal service trains, while awaiting a proper livery.

Yeah I remember the Cravens, I thought the RPSI had lost the plot on this one. But it makes sense what you say, thanks for the info. Paul

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

It’s also the same as the final colour used on diesel locos and coaches 1955-62.

That's interesting Jonathan, I thought that it was a primer or undercoat, a similar colour  to the primer that was used on the MK 3 body shells.  Because if that was the finished product on the RPSI coaches, it was a very poor paint job to be honest. Black and green? Did this livery ever exist on Irish coaches?