exciecoachbuilder

11 hours ago, Mayner said:

I always wondered if CIE managed to source a new supply of laminate panels for re-building the Laminate carriages in the late 70s-80s. I remember reading somewhere many years ago that the laminate panels were made up of an aluminium outer skin and insulated core and a plywood inner skin and thought asbestos insulation board (AIB) was a logical material for the insulated core. AIB contains brown asbestos which was not considered to be as hazardous as blue asbestos and its use was gradually phased from the late 80s. 

Laminate panel construction was a fairly novel way of speeding up carriage construction and it allowed CIE to introduce a large fleet of modern coaches within a 2-3 year timeframe. 

Its possible the 1964 carriages had timber frame construction as they had a similar upright end profile and panel cover slip detail to the 1953 coaches and 59 vans. The timber framing would have formed a nice cavity for sprayed blue asbestos insulation before fitting the interior veneer in what were intended to be state of the art coaches.

I did not realise that CIE re-skinned the Park Royal coaches during the early 1980s, the carriage builders got very good a re-building coaches during those cash strapped days between the completion of the assembly of the MK2D Supertrain coaches and the beginning of the MK3 building programme.

 

Hi John, 

Yes the Park Royal programme initially was to re skin the coaches. But after stripping back one coach, the ' powers that be ' decided that the work would be too costly and time consuming. So they decided to fit the new steel panels over the existing old panels, much to the astonishment of the staff, especially the older generation coachbuilders. The original vestibule ends porthole windows or side lights as we called them  , were done away with, and the replacement was just a steel panel with no window. All the new panels both outside, and the timber panels on the inside were pop- riveted on. Pop rivets or blind rivets as they are known , were the order of the day. The Park Royal programme was not one of  the carriage shops finest moments, but these were the cash strapped days of C.I.E. 

Also John ,

Apart from the Park Royals, i really don't recall seeing  asbestos on the other types of coaches that i had worked on, and I worked on a lot of heavy repair / crash / casualty jobs over the years. I do remember fitting sheets of black or brown ? asbestos in the new half heating van / half passenger conversions that C.I.E were doing in mid / late 70's. The whole new framework and access doors to the new boiler section , had fibreglass insulation/ sound proof, then asbestos sheeting which was then all sheeted out with steel paneling, which was all screwed into place. Interesting times in Inchicore during the ' poverty' era...

Hi lads, 

I don't recall any insulation on those type of coaches. I remember that the body side panels were just a thin sheet of timber with an aluminium outer skin glued onto the thin timber panel, and a veneered panel on the inside. There was no framing as such on the sides, instead there was a timber pillar from the cant rail ( top rail) to the bottom side (bottom section) each side of the windows. The only framing that I can remember was around the toilet section, and the end gangway sections of the coach.Also, they were the only coaches that were ever referred to as ( by coachbuilders in Inchicore works anyway. ) laminates. The new sides were done in a cheaper ' hurried up' way of traditional coachbuilding. The timber used for these rebuilds was iroko , which is a cheaper version of the more traditional teak that was used in previous times. Iroko is not a good timber to work with as the grain 'runs' in every direction, especially if you are notching out with a chisel for hinges etc or planing by hand. There was no asbestos on these carriages, the Park Royal coaches were literally stuffed with controversial blue asbestos. The asbestos was removed  from each coach by contractors before work began on the Park Royal re- skinning , and interior re - fit programme 1981 / 83. 

Hi guys, just a quick comment on the coach 1465. That coach was part of the  ' rebuild ' program done in the carriage shop in Inchicore works between 1978/ 79. The only original (1950's) parts that you can see in the photograph , is the roof and the gangway ends of the coach. A lot of the doors were replaced too. The sawmill which was at the time , located within the carriage shop was very very busy in those days.

Just in reply to Mayner, it wasn't just a few laminates that were re -skinned. It was most , if not all the laminate fleet were ' rebuilt' in the late 70's and into the early eighties. They actually became known as Re-builds and never referred to as laminates again. Quiet a lot of work was done on them , not just re - skinning. New cant rails ( top rail ) were fitted along with whole new side frame sections. Then followed along with aluminium panels on the outside and awful plastic veneered panels on the interior. Complete new toilets were fitted too along with equally awful false tile pattern panels. No welding , no plastic , no fibreglass and no fumes. Nice clean work as we used to say.

Fantastic , I had forgotten about this film. I remember them filming in the Inchicore carriage shop during the NCB days ( new carriage building )of the Mk 3 building program. Some of the faces I recognize there are sadly no longer with us , including Vincent Connaghan the lifting shop senior foreman. Great memories..

That's exactly what they sounded like. I remember when I started as an apprentice in Inchicore back in 1977, one of the Sulzers was ticking over on the line just across from the carriage shop. The fitters working on it would rev it every now and again. Over the next few days, that loco and other Sulzers were shunted into a siding were they remained for many years to just rust away..