exciecoachbuilder

On 15/12/2022 at 11:52 PM, jhb171achill said:

The sidings under the bridge, the “loco depot”, would have been empty of locos by 1963, so possible….

On 15/12/2022 at 11:46 PM, Mayner said:

Rocksavage Works was on the West side of the running line 'the siding under a bridge" was used as a loco depot.

The Works appears to have been in two parts the 3 road Carriage and Wagons Shops or "old carriage shed" parallel with the running line and the Loco Works at right angles to the carriage shops, reached by a turntable with a separate lead from the Cork City Railway. 

The Carriage and Wagon Shops/Carriage Shed appears to be reasonably intact into the late 1950s https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/52251463031/in/album-72177720300931532/. 

The Works appears to have been used for carriage and wagon repair up to closure, there is a late 1950s Walther McGrath  photo of wagons undergoing running repairs outside the shops while No90 shunts wagons on the main line.

Its possible the re-paint took place inside the Carriage Shed or even on one of the several sidings under the Hibernian Road Bridge, the bridge was effectively used as a loco shed after the original running shed was demolished to make way for the Cork City Railway.  Rocksavage may have been used for the repaint if works staff were still on the payroll or Glanmire may have been busy with other work.

Inchacore had a fairly primitive spray shop until replaced by a modern shop during the 1990s

Hi, This is a photo of the old wagon spray that was situated at the rear of the lifting shop, wagons were last sprayed here around the early/ mid 1980's, as the wagon spray was moved to a vacant building further up the works. There were never any carriages sprayed here, the main railway paint shop was situated further to the left of this scene. The paint shop was completely refurbished, including installing a modern spray booth in 1998/99, and during the refurbishment period, any carriages in for repaint were hand painted in the carriage shop,  the painting of locos were cancelled during this period too.

 There is a photograph in the book, Irish Railway Rambler ' of the old paint shop/ dungeon on page 21. Dungeon being the appropriate word to describe the old paint shop in comparison to the then new modern paint spray facility as it is  called. Also, for anyone interested,  B113 in the photo  was given a cosmetic paint job for the Inchicore works 150th anniversary open day, and was later stored in this shed along with a rapidly and sadly deteriorating old AEC railcar.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Paul......

 

Ivory and orange , C.I.E roundels,.

22 hours ago, Mayner said:

The bogie fertiliser wagons were originally fitted with steel mesh doors and nicknamed "Long Kesh" wagons after the Long Kesh internment camp (Maze Prison) opened in 1972.

Its possible CIE built at least one train of wagons with mesh doors before changing to ply sheeting because the Long Kesh wagon nickname appeared to be common at the time.

The change to sheet metal or ply was likely to have been an attempt to reduce the risk of bags bursting and the wagon becoming unstable in the event of the load shifting, a fairly common problem with wagons carrying palletised loads

Hi, I remember that after they changed the mesh on the doors to plywood, they started to have a lot of problems with the runner wheels that the doors slid on because of the extra weight. I recall a few times,  that they would bring in a rake of fertilizers into the carriage for quick running repair, the majority of work being replacing the wheels. The reason for the ferts being brought into the carriage shop, ( because it was not coachbuilding work) is because at that time, the wagon repair shop was just a small area situated within the lifting shop in Inchicore. Also, there were only, as far as I can remember 3 or 4 wagonmakers working there at the time, so they would have been overwhelmed with the amount of work. Eventually, it was decided to do away with the sliding doors, weld plates over the slots where the doors wheeled into, weld the door hinges onto the plates and then you had basically swing doors. There was a lot of body  maintenance on the fertilizers, as the plywood panels were constantly being damaged..... 

14 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

 

That's amazing news for anybody who missed out. Gorgeous little wagons!

They really are lovely wagons, they look a lot better in the flesh, than on the website. 

23 hours ago, Broithe said:

'Landlord' often seems an odd term to me, particularly in the current state of the UK 'pub industry', where the landlord is usually a tenant.

Ok but, we don't say landlord in the ROI. 

2 hours ago, connollystn said:

@Warbonnet, that's very decent of IRM. Pity you're not the landlord of my local pub, he increased the price of a pint [Heineken] by 20 cent yesterday - I am incensed. Will not darken the door of that pub for a very long time.

Landlord?? You got off lightly. My 'landlord' increased the pint of Heineken by 50 cent. 

4 hours ago, murphaph said:

Easily my favourite wagons to weather so far. Hardly a different combination of reds and browns couldn't be found on the prototype during the 90s. They were well and truly unloved by the end.

Yes the wheels are still masked as I have to wait until everything is really dry before applying a top coat of matt varnish. As a matter of course I am regauging each wagon as it gets weathered.

Strange glare is the light reflecting off the back of my phone

I think the jury is still out on as to whether or not the 48 tonners were ever loaded like this. The restriction bars had definitely been removed as there is photographic evidence of briquettes being loaded in those centre bins. I assume it would have happened with fertiliser too and anyway rule 1 lol.

The obligatory before and after

 

They look fantastic, well done.

17 hours ago, murphaph said:

I had a change of heart in the end and sprayed them black with the sides

Hi Murph, all C.I.E / Irish Rail carriages and vans that had a black roof, were painted in gloss black paint. Never Matt black or grey, the only Matt black I can remember being used on carriages, was the window frames on the commuter railcars ( sparrows etc) when the new liveries were introduced in the early 2000's. 

Paul.

17 hours ago, mmie353 said:

I placed an order with DC Kits over the holiday period, the order is processing since the 3rd, I have emailed twice to them and nothing back, last week, I am starting to get concerned. Does anyone know if they are still in business?

I ordered an 071 class loco from DC kits, heard nothing for weeks. Like yourself, I got a bit concerned, so I emailed DC kits to see what's going on? I eventually got a reply, ' order posted'. Poor customer service unfortunately. Wouldn't take a chance with them again. Paul

3 hours ago, murphaph said:

Great information again Paul. Did they enter from the Heuston side and exit from the country side and then head to the long siding beside the running shed to wait their next turn of duty in Heuston?

Did they ever refuel or do running repairs on Connolly locos or was that all done over in the Connolly loco shed only?

Apologies for the late reply murphaph, yes indeed they entered from Heuston end ( Dublin end) then exited from the Cork end. Then on to the long siding, exactly as you said. I think they did repair Connolly based locos sometimes, when they had no room in the much smaller Connolly shed. I worked in Connolly shed for a short period , and it was a very busy running shed. A lot of C class locos  were maintained in Connolly shed at the time too. About the fueling, I honestly cant remember if they did or not.

Paul......

22 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Great info Paul. Yeah I think CIE owned right up to Jamestown Road at one stage. The boundaries of the properties strongly suggest that anyway, as do some tracks leading into those properties. But I think CIE probably sold the land and then those buildings were built by the new owners as they don't really align with the tracks if you get me.

In case anyone is wondering, I'm thinking of modelling about half the depth of the running shed and the to wheel lathe building (using some artistic licence to bring the latter somewhat closer to the mainline). Dropping Portarlington from my plans and including the works would bring a whole new dimension to my layout, with urban grime galore and the excuse to haul DARTs should they ever appear in RTR format

There's also at least one pic of a Hunslet parked in front of the wheel lathe with a solitary NIR MK2 coach. The daily oil train working gives the excuse to run a brake van in the 90's too so that's particularly good info! Lots of modelling possibilities. Lots of light engine workings as locos shuffle back and forth between Heuston (which would be off scene) and the works.

Does anyone know where exactly the refuelling was done? Was it inside the running shed?

Hi Murph, yeah it was done just inside the shed on arrival from Heuston direction. The loco would be shut down for the refuelling process, when complete, the loco would be started up ( the best part, as nothing beats the sound of an  071 class or the growl of an A class starting up) then moved up the shop for running maintenance.

Paul....

On 27/12/2021 at 2:54 AM, railfan222 said:

Mayner

 

Your answer you gave still does not seem good to me. I have to ask the following:

1: Why couldn't have Irish Rail have simply build the control cars with traction equipment and then merged 4 of them into 2 sets of Mark 3 based railcars. Why would the Irish Government reject IE's desire to have commuter railcars.

2: Why would the Goverment reject  proposals for the MK2s to be push/pull trains?

 

Regards Kian. 

Mayner is 100% right with his answer. In the 70's / early 80's , there was no political appetite for spending money on the railways. In fact, i recall there was constant talk of closing railway lines and selling off big chunks of Inchicore works. We even had a coalition government transport minister, saying that had he  been in power, he would never have given the Dart project  the go ahead, incredible stuff imo. It took two rail disasters to bring the government to their senses.

I worked on the mk3 new carriage building ( NCB) project from 1984 to 1989, and I remember the talk at the time, being that there was going to be no more money 

to be spent on anymore carriage building projects on completion of the NCB project. Irish rail was to come up with a solution themselves and that the finance would have to come from the agreed budget in the existing contract. So they came up with their own push pull ideas. I have to be honest, I think that the Mk3 driving trailers are awful looking things, the carriage side light being used for the windscreen, just doesn't look right, and the cab is so big you could fit an elephant into the bloody thing, appalling. Ok guys, rant over......... Paul. 

18 hours ago, murphaph said:

Super pics! Does anyone know how often the train ran? I'm guessing fairly frequently if Inchicore was refuelling all the locos departing out of Heuston. Or did they fill those large tanks in batches?

I've just figured out that the building behind the A is not on Irish Rail property but facing onto Jamestown Road and that my late father used to buy stuff off the place that was in there. 

Hi Murph, the oil train ran daily from Inchicore to the north wall. The Inchicore shunters would take turns at doing guard duty on the oil train, some of the shunters who I knew at the time, said it was a handy number.

Also the big storage tanks seen in the photographs were used to supply the bus depots in Dublin as well. I remember the road oil tankers would do numerous runs from the works, to the depots every day. Yes the buildings you refer to facing onto Jamestown road was some kind of private metal / steel fabrication company. But at one stage it must have been C.I.E property, because you could still see the old railway line that ran in that direction. there was also an old level crossing gate there too.

   Paul....

9 hours ago, bufferstop said:

That is one of the most definitive answers that I've ever heard to a question about Irish railways. Thanks for even taking the trouble to write it. Keep it lit!

Thank you, it was a pleasure.....  Paul.

9 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Superb and very interesting answer, thank you!

Thank you Jonathan... Paul.

10 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Between 2006 and now did the class ever get a repaint? I know at some point maybe around 2015 the logos changed from the old IE logo to the new IE logo. Did they get repainted in that period? And also we’re the chassis on the slightly changed livery given a “slate grey chassis” in that repaint. Because if they didn’t the grubbiness looks really clean on the underbodies. And it’s always confused me a bit. 
ii

Hi, the paint on the loco body was painted with ICI multistripe paint. Multistripe, which meant it had a 40 minute drying time ( flash off) when baked. This meant that you could mask up quickly, and continue on spraying more colours etc. Then, when all the colours where finished, the multistripe painted part of the loco would be given two coats of laquer. The unerframe/ bogies, on the other hand were painted with ICI turbo plus paint. Turbo plus is a gloss finish paint, but it takes hours to dry, even after being baked, which meant that you could only do one colour, maybe two a day, which wasn't practical when doing multi coloured liveries. Irish rail were not going to use the much more expensive multistripe paint on bogies and underframes. When the new paint shop in Inchicore opened 1999/ 2000, the Cravens, MK 2's , MK3's , loco's, the whole lot, were painted with Turbo plus. It wasn't until they decided to do multi coloured liveries , that they needed to use a paint that would bascially speed up the job, hence the multistripe. I hope this answers some questions. Paul..

On 17/4/2021 at 2:20 PM, iarnrod said:

From the article, CIE re-introduced railway police in 1946 with all the powers of a police force on railway property. They existed into the 1960's, by which time, their role was little more than security officers or watchmen. Seems their main role was to protect Inchicore Works, but they also undertook other duties at depots, stations and elsewhere. The reference to full police powers is a quote from Cuisle na Tire, the CIE staff magazine, so may have been a bit exaggerated, as I suspect they operated similar to harbour or airport police in policing the company's by-laws on company property.

First CIE policeman was Patrick Duggan, an ex-Irish Army MP. Photo of him at Heuston Station in 1947.

Also, a photo of a CIE policeman at Inchicore in 1964 in the article.

I do remember that security at Inchicore during tours there in the 1990's were IR staff, but these days, security is done by a security company.

I only remember C.I.E police in Inchicore works. I worked in Connolly, Pearse and Heuston depots, and I don't recall seeing C.I. E police in any of those places.

4 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

I thought CityGold was introduced in 1993? When Mk3 standards 7104, 7133 and 7156 were converted to CityGold coaches.

Nevertheless the catering offering was by all accounts excellent in this period, rather mirroring BR even to the point of decline going from the 2000s onwards and the loss of traditional restaurant cars.

Yes, you're right Citygold was introduced in 1993. 

16 minutes ago, Blaine said:

Easy to jam a piece of wood into the slot, serves the same function too.........old drivers tales

That's interesting, never heard that before, or never heard any of the fitters mention that? , The notch on the end of the key was a kind of release mechanism for safety reasons. Maybe the piece of timber worked? If I see some of the oul drivers that I knew, I will ask them. Paul....

Hi, these were a later version, the original handles of these keys were made from a type of resin or plastic. I'm not 100% sure, but some of these brass replacement keys could have been manufactured in the foundry in the works??  I can't remember to be honest. Paul..

2 hours ago, Dhu Varren said:

Without wanting to criticise what seems to be a solution to producing the Irish version of the Mk3 coach, but should the door at the kitchen end of the restaurant car not be a standard 'slam door', not a 'plug door' as in the picture above. Certainly all the photos I have seen of Mk3 restaurant cars show a 'slam door' at that end, and a 'plug door' at the other.  

Yeah, you are right. There certainly was a ' slam door ' at that end of the coach.

7 minutes ago, exciecoachbuilder said:

Here is a 141 class manual. Apologies for the crappy photographs...

Here is a 141 class manual.

15 hours ago, Midland Man said:

Nice diagram @WRENNEIRE

i think CIE made ones for the 071 and 141 class's as well. Saw one on the internet once but can not find it any more.

Is this the one that you are referring to?

Hi guys, this is the 'owners manual' that came with the loco's when they were delivered. The photograph in the manual is interesting, because the loco is longer than the CIE version and the cab is about a foot lower than the CIE version. No double windows at the back of the cab, also only four steps up into the cab instead of five on the Irish version. The six wheel bogies are different too.

4 hours ago, Irishrailwayman said:

Probably worth noting that many a worker died of lung diseases from such practices! S&H was put in place for very good reasons.

Very true  irishrailwayman. I  will leave it at that.