NCC Post War Brake Van Conversion?

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On a recent NCC thread someone posted about a 'Standard' LMS Brake Van of the LMS which had wandered into GNR rails at Omagh. Can anyone provide me more information on NCC Brake Vans after the war. Can any UK models be converted and what livery did these Irish version wear?

Thanks in advance

[jhb171achill]

It might have been me - but that was a goods van, not a brake van.

There is an NCC brake van at Downpatrick, albeit slightly altered in UTA days.

Brake van design in Ireland - on all companies - was always substantially different from that in Britain. I am unaware of a single variety of British brake van which bears any resemblance at all to any Irish one, NCC included. Having said that, surviving details of all types of NCC wagons and vans is sketchy at best, and there is no doubt that details of many vans have gone. There was a thread here some time ago - can't find it - showing details of a brake van whose remains were found somewhere in a field. But as to UK vans being converted - I would venture to suggest no, certainly if an accurate model is wanted - but, with few surviving details, just repaint something and who's to know?

NCC wagon livery, brake vans included, was all-over standard LMS wagon grey, as used in Britain. This can be got from model shops. It's a mid grey, like what CIE used until about 1960 (before they lightened theirs).

If accuracy is wanted, never look to irish preservation for wagon liveries - Cultra included, the vast majority of non passenger stock preserved in Ireland wears liveries which are completely wrong. The GNR van at Whitehead looks like a zebra with all its black oironwork stripes; this and cream on the interior of the balcony is wrong. It should all be plain grey. The CIE van in Cultra is wrong. It should have yellow and black stripes on the ducket, not black and white. The NCC van at Downpatrick is wrong. It is in NIR PW Dept. pale grey, but with black stripes* and UTA markings.

Have a look at the van at Downpatrick. Now, not all NCC vans were like this design, but obviously some were. Some had a single end balcony and a wagon-like body with side doors, and there were doubtless other types too. I have a notion they also had at one time some six-wheeled examples, probably for heavy goods trains Belfast - Derry. The correct livery for NCC wagons in general, guard's vans included, is the plain grey as above. I do not know what colour the roofs were, but I doubt if it was the white often seen on models.

Lettering was initially a very large "L M S" on the sides, though not as large lettering as used in Britain - with a smaller "N C C" under that. From the 1940s, possibly start of wartime, but certainly by the mid-40s, they simply put "LMSNCC" in smaller letters with no gaps, at the bottom left-hand corner of each side, with the wagon number underneath it.

(* What IS it with the obsession of preservationists in Ireland with painting wagon ironwork black instead of the correct adjacent livery colour?)

Hope this is of some help.

[Rob R]

Was looking at this a few nights ago and found an excellent couple of articles and drawings  for former BNCR Brake Vans in New Irish Lines.

New Irish Lines Vol 8 No 1 May 2017 (page 29)

and more here

New Irish Lines Vol 8 No 2 November 2017  (page 55)

The HMRS have an early BNCR Brake Van drawing of very much the same design.

BNCR Brake Van

Enjoy

Rob

[Rob R]

Just to add a little more.

From the National Library of Ireland here :- Larne

Rob

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Rob R said:

Was looking at this a few nights ago and found an excellent couple of articles and drawings  for former BNCR Brake Vans in New Irish Lines.

New Irish Lines Vol 8 No 1 May 2017 (page 29)

and more here

New Irish Lines Vol 8 No 2 November 2017  (page 55)

The HMRS have an early BNCR Brake Van drawing of very much the same design.

BNCR Brake Van

Enjoy

Rob

THAT's the one I was looking for!