Sandboxes on A class and C class

[Mol_PMB]

I'm interested in the removal of sandboxes from the A and C class (partly associated with the new IRM C class announcement).

Photographic evidence suggests that all 94 locos were fitted with sandboxes from new. 

This included C231 and C234 which both entered service in green livery (all the others were silver). Here's a link to an IRRS photo of each:

C231 on 9 August 1958, in service with sandboxes (otherwise as modelled by IRM):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54253198373

C234 brand new in green with sandboxes:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511694539/

 

Although I haven't done a comprehensive analysis, photos indicated that most locos of both A and C classes lost their sandboxes in the 1958-1959 period, mostly while still silver.

For example, this lovely photo from Ernie shows C202 without sandboxes:

C231 had lost them by 16 May 1959:

 

However, a small number of the A class seem to have retained sandboxes for longer, well into the green livery period and in at least one case into black and tan livery. In most of the cases I've found, they are on one bogie only. Examples from Ernie:

A9 in 1960:

A31 in 1961:

A11 in 1964:

A32 in 1965:

That last photo also includes an A class in the black and tan livery with sandboxes.

 

Has anyone looked into this? Maybe @lucas for the C class?

Were bogies frequently swapped between locos or did they tend to stay together? 

Did some of the A class miss out on having their sandboxes removed, or were they later added back at one end only on a small number of locos for a specific purpose?

Were the sandboxes the same shape/size on the A and C class?

 

[lucas]

4 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Has anyone looked into this? Maybe @lucas for the C class?

For the C class, I believe all lost their sand boxes by '58/'59 or so. At least I don't recall seeing any evidence showing sandboxes still fitted after this period. So it's news to me that some As still had theirs in place years later!

Actually in your last photo, both A32 and the B&T loco in the background both appear to have a sandbox still fitted.

I'm not sure what the exact reason for their removal is. CIÉ weren't using them, but surely there's no harm in keeping them in place?

 

4 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Were bogies frequently swapped between locos or did they tend to stay together?

At least on the C class there was a lot of swapping going on, so I reckon the same was probably true of the A class.

For the C class there are a couple of variations of the bogie casting which makes it easier to tell. There are at least 2 main casting types, more like 3 or 4 types if you start nit-picking. Which loco has which type(s) varies a lot over the years, in fact a mismatched pair is not at all uncommon. It's actually quite difficult to tell exactly how often they are mixed around because many photographs don't have the level of detail to accurately determine the bogie type. But I reckon a swap would've happened at least every 5-10 years if not more often.

Not sure what the reason for the swap was. Could be that they regularly had multiple locos in Inchicore and they naturally got mixed, or it could be that locos were intentionally swapped out with a different pair when the bogies needed maintenance. I haven't been able to find any more information on this.

The frequency of swaps seems to be fairly consistent over the years. The earliest evidence I've found for a swap was in the early 60s, and bogies were still getting swapped in the 90s on the NIR locos.

I plan to make a post outlining the details, but I'm currently preoccupied installing flooring in my new house so I haven't had much time for modelling!

 

4 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Were the sandboxes the same shape/size on the A and C class?

At least based on photographs they appear to be identical in shape and size.

[Mol_PMB]

Many thanks! I thought bogie swaps were likely, either at planned overhauls or in case of failure where they might have quickly made one good loco by combining bits of two failed ones. 

So perhaps a few A class locos missed out on the sandbox removal modification and then their bogies got swapped around to other members of the class over time. 
 

As yet I haven’t seen photos of any C class retaining sandboxes into the 1960s. 
And it looks like C231 and C234 were the only C class to have the combination of green livery and sandboxes, albeit for just a short time.